PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Do you know the novel/movie Birdy? Clinical lycanthropy is also a medical condition.
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Man to Man... or Woman
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Actually there is because we all have some testosterone and estrogen within us. See: Normal Testosterone and Estrogen Levels in Women
and: Estrogen in Men: How It Works and What High or Low Levels Mean
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I too reject "gender theory." But transgender people happen, their brain structure doesn't match whats between their legs. To deny this brain structure, you might as well reject the entire fields of neurology and neuroimaging. It's a definite fact just as it is a definite fact men and women have brains that are shaped differently.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Incase you missed it, that does mention it includes psychotic symptoms and has been documented happening alongside Cotards syndrome.
That is absolutely not even in the same ballpark or field as gender dysphoria.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yes, the majority hormone for men is testosterone and for women its estrogen. If this werent the case wed all be androgynous with little amd few differences between men and women. But men too need estrogen just as women need testosterone. But not as much. Whoch is why the other is the majority hormone.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I agree. I take this brain-body mismatch as a fact. But the initial question was about treatment. Is transition (hormone therapy and surgery) the only and universal option?
I'm the odd person out in these discussions because I don't believe in so called 'pink brains and blue brains,' in that the data talking about different shapes/makeups of men and women's brains is nowhere near as conclusive on that issue. (So I guess I do buy 'gender theory' to some degree.)
Imo it's akin to the hunt for the 'gay gene' which is a reductive argument in search for what should be unnecessary biological justification to bigots. And misses the larger complexity of what makes sexuality.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Thats been asked before. Technically it's not the only. There is conversion therpay, electroshock therapy, lobotomies, amd other treatments. Transitioning to the degree needed by the individual client is the only one to have consistently shown to improve things.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Do you also reject MRIs amd xrays? Autopsy results in general?
No, but I also don't think there are conclusively innate structural differences between men and women's brains. And plenty of neuroscientists (such as this one ERIC - EJ971278 - The Myth of Pink and Blue Brains, Educational Leadership, 2010-Nov ) have challenged the claim that brain differences between sexes (which are minute and not even consistent across the board) exist due to embryonic development, but rather behavioral development. Like assuming that 'nurture can't effect 'nature' in genetics, this is likewise an assumption of innate biology which is often more complex than that.
Also consider that not all trans have or experience dysphoria. Nor do all cis have wildly different hormone levels than pre-treatment trans.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Even physical differences are not universal. Men are generally taller and larger. But plenty of women are taller than the average male while plenty of men are shorter than the average female.
They do, otherwise they're not trans. I personally identify as a transsexual man and don't like how "transgender" is being used as a vague umbrella term for everyone from transsexuals who have full SRS to tomboys. We are not the same at all. Non-binary people, gender fluid, etc. should be considered as their own thing, really.
Imo this has the same feel as bi erasure, where gay people feel like bi people don't experience the same physical or social experiences they do and really should be not part of the 'lgbt'.
Transmedicalism isn't helpful or functional imo.
True, but the inconsistency I'm talking about is not like that. There's no conclusive evidence that some phenotypic makeup makes these brain differences or that anyone who doesn't will more likely be trans.
How am I erasing anyone? Non-binary, gender fluid, gender non-conforming, androgynous, people certainly exist. I'm just saying I'm not in the same category in them and can't relate to them. I did not change my gender, I'm changing my biological sex. I'm a man, a male and this isn't about gender roles or society to me. I have a medical condition. Throwing us together harms both groups because we have different aims and needs.
Bi erasure isn't always about saying bi people don't exist. Just that they're an 'other' that isn't quite gay and don't really belong in the same spaces as gay people because they don't experience 'gayness all the way' as some have put it. It's about minimizing their experience and saying they can be more comfortable and less part of a rigid category therefore are less relevant or occasionally less valid. (This is something I've personally experienced.)
But transmedicalism is trying to use dysphoria or 'medical condition' as an excuse for validation which isn't, imo, all that validating, nor a complete coverage of the trans experience. Kind of like seeking out the 'gay gene' that will never be found. And will never be important to validating the experience of gay people. But don't take my word for it. There are trans voices talking about this too.
Edit: Ack xenforo removed the time stamp when embedding. It's 22m26s.
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There is no "gay gene", but we know that genetics plays a role in homosexuality. Similarly, we know there are biological foundations for transsexualism through findings from neuroscience and genetics.
Like I said, I recognize their existence and see them as valid, I just don't see them as being in the same group as me. The bisexual vs gay analogy doesn't work because they both have the shared attribute of homosexuality. What shared attributes does a transsexual with strong dysphoria who wants to medically transition have with a non-binary person who doesn't have dysphoria and doesn't want to transition? We're just not the same. That doesn't mean we're not both part of the wider community.
Hell, they can even take the term "transgender", because I never identified with it.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I know what is major regarding effect. Quantity is a different story.
There's biological foundations for literally every behavioral. But the attempt to distance and separate the nurture from the nature downplays how much both intertwine. And gender studies is still in its infancy and I'm willing to bet will have much more nuanced conclusions in the future than pink brains and blue brains (which aren't really all that well supported to begin with.) Bear in mind that Tumblr is twice as old as the first dysphoria diagnosis.
The shared attributes between a trans and non-binary is nonconforming gender identity contrasted to their sex at birth. Of feeling they don't belong to the same gender and/or sexual category that they were assigned with at birth. Same as transgenders who are not non-binary but don't experience strong dysphoria but still see themselves as not belonging to the same gender and/or sexual category that they were assigned with at birth.
I don't understand what you mean by this.
And that's fine, but I still think a distinction should be made. That's all.