Man Who Was Shot Six Times Still Waiting for Surgery Due to the Overwhelming Number of COVID Cases

[Unveiled Artist]

And yet you've been arguing against them this entire time, and have repeatedly gave statements that indicate you aren't keeping up with current events.

Unless they affect me directly, no. How can I be anti-anything when majority of the arguments on this board and what I looked up I don't even share?

I don't see how the two statements relate. How does my not being up-to-date with international politics have anything to do with my not being against vaccines?

Some people don't take the risk of heart disease from a diet rich in red meat seriously. Some think all grains are whole grain. Some even doubt we are what we eat and don't think diet is that important at all.
That doesn't make any of them right or wise, and certainly it can't be said they are making an informed decision based on available facts and data.
Some people don't take the risks of smoking seriously. Do we want to follow in their path?

It highly depends on the situation. Like I don't eat a lot of red meat to take it seriously but I used to eat a lot of sweats so the side affects made me take it a bit more seriously than red meat.

It just depends. I wouldn't expect every single person to run around trying to get the vaccine because they are told thousands of people died and stats and averages.

It's like I was saying in previous threads.... the COVID situation is going by fear-by making decisions based on the unknown. When you don't know you're asymptomatic of course you going to take things more seriously than others who don't have that spark of urgency. That doesn't mean they're not taking things seriously, it just means each person is highly different in their response to emergency situations.

I admit there are people who don't take the pandemic seriously-but I disagree it has anything to do with whether they are vaccinated or not.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't expect you to visit a stranger in the hospital, so that's not my point; that's irrelevant to me. It goes beyond that.

Would you not visit a loved one in the hospital because it's their fault they put themselves at risk to get COVID?

I would visit any one I know in hospital, I would not need a reason.
Any lessons that could be learned were for them not me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Good to hear, my conscience is my best compass.
I remember your stories ... cyborg etc. Good to hear you are protected by loved ones; you are one of my favorites on RF, you are very friendly


Aha, now I understand your replies. Must have been rough on you too, reading all these, IMO, quite vicious and aggressive replies. In Holland we have just a few vaccinations when we are child. And when I was travelling a lot, I did take a few extra vaccinations. Since 2014 no more travelling for me, so no need for vaccinations


I know one family here who got covid, all 3 kids got it, father did not get it. But nothing major happened to them, the boy did lose taste

IF covid is really that transmissible THEN maybe I even got it without noticing it, I mean I have many troubles already, I can imagine I did not notice it. If I need to visit the hospital I might do a covid test (the one with anti bodies), I am curious if I got it the past 2 years. Although I know for sure that I did not lose my taste.

I wish you all the best, and pray (if you don't mind) you stay healthy

By the way, thank you.

Yeah. Thankfully the issues are only online. There's one resident here that got COVID and his wife (in a journal thread I created). About a year ago, there was another COVID infected person I over heard about while in the office. It spilled out that he was sick and most people here, so told (over in their 70s above) panicked, gossiping, telling people "there he is...there he is...!" Fear. I'm sworn to secrecy but I can't afford fear of the unknown.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would visit any one I know in hospital, I would not need a reason.
Any lessons that could be learned were for them not me.

If they put themselves at risk for having COVID and ended up at the hospital, it sounds like you're more concerned with people's decisions not the fact unvaccinated people can spread the virus regardless how well you know the person. We can choose to empathize or not empathize with strangers but your point of view sounds very much like a contradiction unless you didn't visit a loved one just as you wouldn't a stranger because they both put themselves at risk of COVID and ended up in the hospital. Unless there are exclusions to the rule?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't see how the two statements relate. How does my not being up-to-date with international politics have anything to do with my not being against vaccines?

Current events isn't just international politics.
Covid has been current events for nearly two years now.

. the COVID situation is going by fear-by making decisions based on the unknown.

I don't know if huffing gasoline will kill me or not. I may not. I may be fine. But I don't because the risks are foolish.
And with covid it isn't entirely unknown. We know it is deadly. We know it damages organs throughout the entire body. We know it can very seriously mess people up. We know it is very highly contagious. We also know vaccines significantly cut the risks of all that. That's not an unknown.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If they put themselves at risk for having COVID and ended up at the hospital, it sounds like you're more concerned with people's decisions not the fact unvaccinated people can spread the virus regardless how well you know the person. We can choose to empathize or not empathize with strangers but your point of view sounds very much like a contradiction unless you didn't visit a loved one just as you wouldn't a stranger because they both put themselves at risk of COVID and ended up in the hospital. Unless there are exclusions to the rule?

You can not visit covid patients in hospital in the UK. Vaccinated or not, but that may change.

However I make no connection between people being in hospital and whoes blame it might be. If you want to visit you visit.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We have a saying "man suffers most from the suffering that he fears". this applies also to corona

200 million people die of Malaria every year
004 million people died of Corona so far (ca. 2 years)

Because of the media people fear for Corona very much

I know I would die of Malaria if I get it
But chances I die of Corona are much less

Do you smoke?
Why or why not?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You can not visit covid patients in hospital in the UK. Vaccinated or not, but that may change.

However I make no connection between people being in hospital and whoes blame it might be. If you want to visit you visit.

What was the point you were making when you said you wouldn't visit me (or just a stranger?) in the hospital if they choose not to vaccinate?

Does this apply to every person or just strangers?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Current events isn't just international politics.
Covid has been current events for nearly two years now.

Our local area doesn't have too much going on. We have some cases but not as much deaths as say Florida. I don't know what's happening in other countries "right now" when it comes to COVID only those closer to home.

I don't know if huffing gasoline will kill me or not. I may not. I may be fine. But I don't because the risks are foolish.
And with covid it isn't entirely unknown. We know it is deadly. We know it damages organs throughout the entire body. We know it can very seriously mess people up. We know it is very highly contagious. We also know vaccines significantly cut the risks of all that. That's not an unknown

Yes "and" some people vaccinate because of this and others don't have that fear and don't vaccinate.

It's not that they don't take things seriously, they just don't jump to vaccinate just because of the unknown and how if affects millions of other people.

Unknown meaning fear of what may happen if one gets COVID... some people have fear and they vaccinate and others don't have that innate feeling of urgency. Just depends on the person's situation. I'd hope people evaluate their level of catching COVID by what their immediate situation (say where they work, who they take care, etc) and not heavily based on how many people died.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes "and" some people vaccinate because of this and others don't have that fear and don't vaccinate.

It has nothing to do with fear. I got vaccinated because I have a complicated health history, and while nothing known to put me at elevated risk I do have a range of existing conditions going on, including chronic fatigue.
Safety is never out of fear. Safety is why we wear safety glasses when there is debris in the air. It's why we properly store and prepare food. It's why we wear earplugs around heavy machines. It's why we get vaccinated.

 

[stvdv]

Do you smoke?
Why or why not?

I do not smoke
Because I do not like smoke

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It has nothing to do with fear. I got vaccinated because I have a complicated health history, and while nothing known to put me at elevated risk I do have a range of existing conditions going on, including chronic fatigue.
Safety is never out of fear. Safety is why we wear safety glasses when there is debris in the air. It's why we properly store and prepare food. It's why we wear earplugs around heavy machines. It's why we get vaccinated.

No one is anti/pro about safety glasses though. Fear deals with one's emotions. It doesn't have to be irrationally based to be based on some level of fear. It just means there is something unknown and majority of people are apprehensious about it and their safety and thus emotions get the best of them.

My situation is different than yours so we would see taking the vaccine differently. You have more reason to get vaccinated than I would. It just depends on the person's situation not being unvaccinated in and of itself.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What was the point you were making when you said you wouldn't visit me (or just a stranger?) in the hospital if they choose not to vaccinate?

Does this apply to every person or just strangers?

Read that post again it is perfectly clear. You are totally misinterpreting what I said.
May be it is just an American thing?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As I said I would not visit you in hospital because you are too far away.
Even if I wanted to tell you I told you so.

What is the point you're making?

(It's not an American thing)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No one is anti/pro about safety glasses though. Fear deals with one's emotions. It doesn't have to be irrationally based to be based on some level of fear. It just means there is something unknown and majority of people are apprehensious about it and their safety and thus emotions get the best of them.

My situation is different than yours so we would see taking the vaccine differently. You have more reason to get vaccinated than I would. It just depends on the person's situation not being unvaccinated in and of itself.

Older people Ike myself 86 are a far higher risk than those below 60. People living in care homes are at even higher risk ( in most countries). The risk is clearly not equal. It also varies by sex with men being far more at risk. The youngest children are the least at risk. It is this risk factor that is the reason the UK distributed the vaccine in the order of age groups. I was amongst the first group to be offered the vaccine.
I am still largely isolating, but I will be going to a premiership rugby match in October.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What is the point you're making?

(It's not an American thing)

I do not under stand your problem. I mean exactly what I said.
I do not know how to translate it into American English.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or just COVID even. You tell someone you care about you won't visit them because of their health-related decisions?

In California you can't be a visitor to a medical facility unless you're vaccinated. And all healthcare employees have to be vaccinated.
This is good because the risk of those who's immune system is compromised being there as well is very real. Those who can't get vaccinated and rely on others to get vaccinated for protection are there.
And I don't have empathy for people crying about that, or those who go on about personal choices and doing what's best for "me" who end up in the hospital severely ill and dying from covid. No more than I have sympathy for someone in the hospital who is very drunk and just killed some people while driving.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not under stand your problem. I mean exactly what I said.
I do not know how to translate it into American English.

When you have a discussion with people all around the world you have to be comfortable with being asked for clarification.

It's a respectful way of saying, "hey, I didn't understand what you meant... can you rephrase."

Unless you're arguing, I don't see a problem with just clarifying your points.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In California you can't be a visitor to a medical facility unless you're vaccinated. And all healthcare employees have to be vaccinated.
This is good because the risk of those who's immune system is compromised being there as well is very real. Those who can't get vaccinated and rely on others to get vaccinated for protection are there.
And I don't have empathy for people crying about that, or those who go on about personal choices and doing what's best for "me" who end up in the hospital severely ill and dying from covid. No more than I have sympathy for someone in the hospital who is very drunk and just killed some people while driving.

I just don't understand and share your lack of sentiment with some people. Our criteria for value of life are totally different. But even so, I separate people who intentionally drive drunk and kill people from those who choose not to vaccinate. I actually can't compare the two. If the unvaccinated new they were sick and go around people then I can kind of see the comparison. Since I can't judge whose actually in danger, I just don't see the "objective" and inherent connection.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There really are only two solutions. Either the vast majority get vaccinated, or you keep people away from each other (hard lockdowns). Don't do that, and you just have to put up with spread, illness and more deaths.

I think the majority would be vaccinated after awhile. I don't know if the arguments will drop completely but if/when they do booster shots and maybe yearly vaccinations it may get near to 100%.