Man Who Was Shot Six Times Still Waiting for Surgery Due to the Overwhelming Number of COVID Cases

[Shadow Wolf]

No one is anti/pro about safety glasses though.

My dad bragged about not wearing safety glasses or earplugs while he worked at Chrysler. He still doesn't with his own projects at home, and shrugs it all off and dismisses safety concerns. He's basically just anti-safety the way he makes his garage into a death trap to be stumbled around.
My nieces and nephews know if I see them without safety gear they're in for a very long lecture.
And, yeah, it's not that unusual to meet someone who is "pro safety" and stickler about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I just don't understand and share your lack of sentiment with some people. Our criteria for value of life are totally different.

When people are needlessly suffering because of the recklessness of others, I don't waste sympathy on the fools. Here we have a man who's having receiving further damage as time goes on and things not healing correctly, and he is suffering this entirely and completely unnecessarily. And though it is unnecessary it is still happening because the medical system is over run and swamped and they don't have the resources to take care of it. They made sure he was stable like they had to and now they have those in a worse condition to take care of. And these people in the worse condition? A huge chunk of them are with covid. And of those with covid, nearly all of them willingly elected for a path of elevated risks, they took on personal accountability and each making the best decision for themselves. They are there because they chose needless risks and a foolhardy gamble over safety. They brought it on themselves, entirely and completely, so why should I cry a tear for them or feel bad for them at all when I know this man's muscles muscles and bones aren't healing correctly because he has to wait? Why do those who chose this path of destruction receive my sympathy when I know their choices have meant endless overwork for many healthcare providers around the globe? They sacrificed time with family. They sacrificed time with friends. They sacrificed nearly all time outside of the hospital except to sleep. Some even literally sacrificed their lives. Why do I even care about those who won't protect themselves and bring upon such devastation and destruction to others? My heart yearns for those who took precautions and still got covid and died. But those who didn't? To use the words of this one TED Talk, I don't have the **** bucks to spend on them and they'll put me over budget.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My dad bragged about not wearing safety glasses or earplugs while he worked at Chrysler. He still doesn't with his own projects at home, and shrugs it all off and dismisses safety concerns. He's basically just anti-safety the way he makes his garage into a death trap to be stumbled around.
My nieces and nephews know if I see them without safety gear they're in for a very long lecture.
And, yeah, it's not that unusual to meet someone who is "pro safety" and stickler about it.

I guess I'm generalizing because I don't talk with any person about this stuff. People just genuinely keep to themselves about politics. I've always had pet peeve with black/white views. Either you pro-trump or anti-trump, antivax or provax, gay or straight, theist or atheist, whatever. Its a small annoyance until there's a big deal made out of it. When people stop attacking the idea, theology, or political party and start attacking the political figure, lay person, or whatever that's where I have an issue.

Nothing I can do about it, though. If I wasn't on RF and skipped social media sites talking ill of people not in line with the vaccine I'd be ignorant to a lot of things. It's a blessing and a curse, I guess, to be in the middle of all this info.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I guess I'm generalizing because I don't talk with any person about this stuff. People just genuinely keep to themselves about politics. I've always had pet peeve with black/white views. Either you pro-trump or anti-trump, antivax or provax, gay or straight, theist or atheist, whatever. Its a small annoyance until there's a big deal made out of it. When people stop attacking the idea, theology, or political party and start attacking the political figure, lay person, or whatever that's where I have an issue.

Being vaccinated, especially collectively, is more important than "gay or straight" or "theist or atheist." It is an issue that effects all of us, not just closed restaurants and wearing a mask a year without large events. Our actions in regards to this pandemic, from distancing to masks to vaccinating, it effects us all. Such as the guy in the OP who's going to have a shoulder more messed up than what should have been. Those people doing what they think is best for themselves, what was best for them is an unnecessary burden and unfortunate health outcome for another.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Being vaccinated, especially collectively, is more important than "gay or straight" or "theist or atheist." It is an issue that effects all of us, not just closed restaurants and wearing a mask a year without large events. Our actions in regards to this pandemic, from distancing to masks to vaccinating, it effects us all. Such as the guy in the OP who's going to have a shoulder more messed up than what should have been. Those people doing what they think is best for themselves, what was best for them is an unnecessary burden and unfortunate health outcome for another.

If he were to have vaccinated but had the same wounds would you consider treating him-giving him a bed?

I honestly don't see selfishness in not vaccinating 'in and of itself.' I mean I see what you're saying but not so much to deny someone medical treatment by not being vaccinated in and of itself. I have a feeling years down the line when 99.9 percent of people are vaccinated and the variants are still around people will still be blaming the unvaccinated.

The situation is sad but not so much to decide who should get treatment or not based on vaccination status.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If he were to have vaccinated but had the same wounds would you consider treating him-giving him a bed?

He's not there for covid.
Those who are and willingly didn't vaccinate should have to give up their spot for those who didn't chose the reckless path that put them there. If there's no more resources available I see no other way of being fair about distributing healthcare.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A man who was shot six times has been waiting about a week to have surgery due to the hospital's being overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases:



A Texas hospital is so overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases that a man shot six times has waited a week for surgery

In my opinion, cases like this are among multiple reasons a case could arguably be made for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination in areas with a particularly high number of infections and resultant hospitalizations.

If those people had gotten two shots, maybe this poor guy could get his six shots treated.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He's not there for covid.
Those who are and willingly didn't vaccinate should have to give up their spot for those who didn't chose the reckless path that put them there. If there's no more resources available I see no other way of being fair about distributing healthcare.

They should do it as hospital rules by severity not by whose vaccinated (if the guy had COVID). Hospitals care about people's lives in relation to their condition and symptoms so I'd side with the hospital first and foremost. It may be a "moral" decision or opinion for some people not to have COVID unvaccinated patients to have a bed due to their symptoms but ethically for others-even medics-that's just not a factor in saving people's lives. Personal biases mean nothing in the hospital.

If he had COVID and in critical care and the person beside him had COVID and just came in because he had minor symptoms the hospital would take the the guy before the one with minor symptoms. Their vaccination status in this scenario is irrelevant. If 100% people were vaccinated there would still be breakthroughs and still be sick people needing beds. Hospitals in the states, if they have beds, can't turn down patients no matter how little their symptoms seem at first... so those with COVID in the hospital (a case) may not have serious symptoms as opposed to others who do. There's so much gray area (if we're not dependent on media to tell us otherwise) that it I honestly can't take a side on who to treat based on the said consequences of their not vaccinating.

Something else that I just thought of. If majority of people are unvaccinated with COVID in hospitals and we told all unvaccinated COVID patients to leave, who would we be treating?

Once all unvaccinated people with COVID die out, then what?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They should do it as hospital rules by severity not by whose vaccinated (if the guy had COVID). Hospitals care about people's lives in relation to their condition and symptoms so I'd side with the hospital first and foremost. It may be a "moral" decision or opinion for some people not to have COVID unvaccinated patients to have a bed due to their symptoms but ethically for others-even medics-that's just not a factor in saving people's lives. Personal biases mean nothing in the hospital.

And, truly, I do believe that is unfortunate and immoral because a lot of them in there have been boldly and brazenly non compliant with mitigation measures and refuse to vaccinate out of some sense of misguided pride and hyperpartisan insulated intake of information and they tout personal choice and responsibility but when the time comes to "walk the walk" of doing what was best for them and knowing the risks someone else in the end is suffering the consequences.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And, truly, I do believe that is unfortunate and immoral because a lot of them in there have been boldly and brazenly non compliant with mitigation measures and refuse to vaccinate out of some sense of misguided pride and hyperpartisan insulated intake of information and they tout personal choice and responsibility but when the time comes to "walk the walk" of doing what was best for them and knowing the risks someone else in the end is suffering the consequences.

That's a generalization. How does choosing to be unvaccinated tell about a person's political standing and how much information he or she has obtained?

If a perfect stranger told you they were unvaccinated but never said how/why/when, where would you place him if he ended up with COVID and in the hospital?

Where would COVID unvaccinated patients go? Honestly?

Would you let them die?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If a perfect stranger told you they were unvaccinated but never said how/why/when, where would you place him if he ended up with COVID and in the hospital?

Only if there was room for it, and he'd be the first to go if critical care is enacted

Would you let them die?

If there is a major freeway accident that floods the emergency room and overwhelms the ICU, those people will be first in line before the willing unvaccinated who have covid.
The people in the wreck didn't chose for that to happen. The unvaccinated person did.
.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only if there was room for it, and he'd be the first to go if critical care is enacted

If there is a major freeway accident that floods the emergency room and overwhelms the ICU, those people will be first in line before the willing unvaccinated who have covid.
The people in the wreck didn't chose for that to happen. The unvaccinated person did.
.

Are these answers for the guy that was shot?

I was wondering about an everyday stranger who wasn't vaccinated and ended up in the hospital with COVID. Since you're saying it was his fault for putting himself at risk then even if he were in critical condition, he would be last to get a bed?

Those who were vaccinated and/or exempt from vaccination get a bed first?

 

[SkepticThinker]

How much stock do you put in what they tell you?
(Not as a conspiracy just in general-how much do you put in the fact they give you?)

You want like, a percentage or something?

Where do you suggest I turn to for information?

 

[SkepticThinker]

US doesn't have booster shots. I heard it start in India or Israel or so have you. My point is this is a continuous problem so it would take a long time for any solutions to manifest given new variants. If there were just COVID than I can see others getting vaccinated. Maybe a plan B or C would be on the way soon.

U.S. plans to begin administering COVID-19 booster shots in September - source

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You want like, a percentage or something?

Where do you suggest I turn to for information?

It's a metaphor. How much trust or investment do you put in what they tell you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are these answers for the guy that was shot?

I've said many, many times NO.
How hard is this? The guy who was shot doesn't have covid. He isn't in the situation he's in by having covid and not being vaccinated.
There is no reason to keep conflating the two.

I was wondering about an everyday stranger who wasn't vaccinated and ended up in the hospital with COVID. Since you're saying it was his fault for putting himself at risk then even if he were in critical condition, he would be last to get a bed?

Yes. That is correct. He took on those risks, he accepted responsibility, and when resources are limited those people need to be paying for their own consequences. NOT people like the guy in the OP, who doesn't have covid and wasn't admitted because of covid. He's just paying the price of the consequences for those who are in there with covid who willingly didn't vaccinate.

Those who were vaccinated and/or exempt from vaccination get a bed first?

When there isn't enough to go around I believe this is equitable and fair.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

U.S. plans to begin administering COVID-19 booster shots in September - source

Yeah. I read similar in YouTube, one of the news channels yesterday. Not for everyone yet. Probably the end of the year. Many would most likely rush to get that too.

 

[Kenny]

Pretty easy to say, but in a pandemic in which not enough people are getting vaccinated, especially in some conservative states, that may be somewhat harder to do. When all hospitals are over capacity, then what?

Harder was 10 months ago and we seemed to rise to the occasion... and no one was vaccinated. So it isn't a vaccination issue. IMO.

A better question is "where is the leadership now?"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Harder was 10 months ago and we seemed to rise to the occasion... and no one was vaccinated. So it isn't a vaccination issue. IMO.

So, what do the diminished case loads as vaccinations happened not make this an issue of vaccination? How is it not when we clearly see the overwhelming majority going to the hospital and dying are the unvaccinated?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So, what do the diminished case loads as vaccinations happened not make this an issue of vaccination? How is it not when we clearly see the overwhelming majority going to the hospital and dying are the unvaccinated?

That is the question, isn't it?