Mandatory Vaccinations?

[ecco]

The question is now that people are vaccinated, how did unvaccinated people jump from just being at A risk to all of the sudden having an even higher chance of catching COVID?

I never said that they were at a higher risk now than before.

What I have said, repeatedly, is that people who are unvaccinated are at a higher risk than vaccinated people. The proof is that vaccinated people have not gotten COVID. Unvaccinated people are still getting it and being hospitalized by it and dying from it.

Do some basic research. Read up on what is happening in Mississippi. Mississippi has the lowest vaccine rate. Mississippi has one of the highest infection rates. Low vaccination rates; high infection rates.

That is today. That is when there are enough doses of the vaccine to cover every adult American. Does that mean the people in Mississippi are dumber than those in Vermont? In my opinion, YES!

 

[ecco]

Congratulations! You just confirmed my argument. People who are unvaccinated have a higher risk relative to people who are vaccinated. There have been no reports of vaccinated people getting COVID. Over the past week more than 1000 people died from COVID.
June 17-23 2021
Deaths for vaccinated people: 0
Deaths for unvaccinated people: >1000

You're right. It's all realative.

The question is now that people are vaccinated, how did unvaccinated people jump from just being at A risk to all of the sudden having an even higher chance of catching COVID?

Relative to the people vaccinated.

That's all I meant.

The sarcasm isn't needed.

YES! RELATIVE TO THE PEOPLE VACCINATED! THAT'S THE POINT!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Take a break. You're working yourself up over this and you don't even know me.

I've gotten tired of repeatedly explaining to you why people who get vaccinated are annoyed with people who don't.

I know.

I'm not sure how repeating it has anything to do with the original convo. I knew this since people bashed the unvaccinated on RF from the get-go.

If your position is so weak that it is easily devalued, perhaps it is not a very good position.

That's fine to you. What are you trying to prove here?

I never said your position was bad or ignorant or anything like that.

I never ever argued against your opinion.

Edit. I never ever argued against your facts.

OK. So English is not your first Language. However, "idioms" and "hypotheticals" can be translated to/from any language. You should know they are not the same thing.

Sarcasm and insults.

Ecco. Cut it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

YES! RELATIVE TO THE PEOPLE VACCINATED! THAT'S THE POINT!

Cut it out Ecco.

I can handle conversations, but you're turning this into I don't even know.

 

[ecco]

There are rational reasons-and other factors not just medical reasons. Some make more sense than others.

But you have not articulated any of them. None.

Experts do--for example, age is a factor of who is at more risk than others. If the risk were the same, they wouldn't have seniors to get vaccinated first. It would all be the same. It is not.

You really need to get caught up on current events. It has been several months since the recommendation was for just seniors and healthcare workers to get vaccinated. Now there are enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated and that is what health officials are trying to do.

So, they know it's not just "get vaccinated", it's if you are in a position that vaccination is warranted, do so. If not, it's suggested but not necessary.

Wrong! Where do you get this idea that is "suggested but not necessary"? What is your source? Please - what is your source for this misinformation?

 

[ecco]

Okay...

You're mixing the two. I never said your facts were wrong or part of emotionalism. It's the sarcasm and choice of words. Context not content.

Really?

My emphases in your following post...

Emotionalism words are things like: claim, excuse, sarcasm, etc.... it means you have a high investment on this subject....and the thing is, you don't even know me and still assume things just based on being unvaccinated. Another emotionalism is saying that (assuming) you care for others that's why you get the vaccine... so if someone doesn't get it, automatically, they don't care. Emotionalism.

I can find other posts if need be.

You may never have said my facts were wrong. You just ignore them when you try to make your argument.

Your basic argument is you don't get vaccinated because you don't like being coerced. That's not much of an argument. If that is not your argument, then, I ask you again to articulate it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your basic argument is you don't get vaccinated because you don't like being coerced. That's not much of an argument. If that is not your argument, then, I ask you again to articulate it.

Yes. That's one reason but not the main one. Coercion sends red flags. It's not just the COVID vaccine. I never took vaccines other than grade school.

It's hard to converse with you because your sarcasm and attitude is really messin' up your points and what you're trying to say.

 

[Kooky]

So what's the point defending the refusal to vaccinate against a highly contageous and dangerous virus as a reasonable and justified option? Is there a point at all to this?

 

[ecco]

Important late breaking news update: FDA Will Add COVID-19 Vaccine Heart Warning for Young Adults

What is the purpose of the warning? What is the wording of the warning?

Is it warning Young Adults to not get the vaccine?

Do you know?

Do you care?

Earlier you made this scary-sounding completely fraudulent post...

Important late breaking news update: FDA Will Add COVID-19 Vaccine Heart Warning for Young Adults

The Conservative Right has a long history of frightening the flock. Remember Willie Horton? Remember Obama Lies, Grandma dies.

Now, with the advent of social media, the flock have taken to scaring themselves and each other.

One has to wonder why.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So what's the point defending the refusal to vaccinate against a highly contageous and dangerous virus as a reasonable and justified option? Is there a point at all to this?

Because, as I've said, it's how it was done and bad timing.

It was an opinion to the nature of the firing. Put in another way, if it wasn't the vaccine and something else, I'd have the same sentiments.

I'm not one to say "I told you so..." Provaxxers do that. Maybe antivaxxers, I don't know. I haven't seen them do so on RF. But this really wasn't about me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is the purpose of the warning? What is the wording of the warning?

Is it warning Young Adults to not get the vaccine?

Do you know?

Do you care?

Earlier you made this scary-sounding completely fraudulent post...

​

The Conservative Right has a long history of frightening the flock. Remember Willie Horton? Remember Obama Lies, Grandma dies.

Now, with the advent of social media, the flock have taken to scaring themselves and each other.

One has to wonder why.

FDA to add warning about rare heart inflammation to Pfizer and Moderna vaccines

The US Food and Drug Administration will add a warning to the Covid vaccines produced by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna about rare cases of heart inflammation in adolescents and young adults, the agency announced on Wednesday.

US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advisory groups, meeting to discuss reported cases of the heart condition after vaccination, found the inflammation in adolescents and young adults is likely linked to the vaccines, but that the benefits of the shots appeared to clearly outweigh the risk.

Health regulators in several countries have been investigating whether the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna shots using new mRNA technology present a risk and, if so, how serious.....

 

[ecco]

Why are you hostile?? What is the point you're trying to prove?

Pointing out that it is ridiculous for you to accuse me of not reading your post correctly when obviously I did read it correctly, is hostile? Really? I should just let your false, derisive comments about me go unchallenged?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You may never have said my facts were wrong. You just ignore them when you try to make your argument.

Your basic argument is you don't get vaccinated because you don't like being coerced. That's not much of an argument. If that is not your argument, then, I ask you again to articulate it.

Assumptions aren't facts Ecco.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Important late breaking news update: FDA Will Add COVID-19 Vaccine Heart Warning for Young Adults

FDA To Add Warning To Pfizer, Moderna COVID Vaccines About Rare Heart Inflammation

"The CDC is tracking more than 1,200 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis. Most of the cases happened after the second dose of the mRNA vaccines, and 65% were linked to Pfizer. The vast share of cases occurred in males 24 years old or younger."

"The CDC says most patients with this heart inflammation responded well to treatment and rest and felt better quickly. Health experts are reminding people who choose not to get vaccinated that the virus itself can also cause health problems."

I guess it depends on what people want to hear. These are pretty good factors to take into consideration.

 

[ecco]

I can list a whole lot of them (meaning, there is quite a few I can list)
But I can't list EVERYTHING.

Even if I did (or could) you'd still belittle it.

What on earth are you trying to prove here?

The nastiness is not necessary.

Why do you bother writing "I can list a whole lot of them" if you are not going to list any of them?

Why do you bother writing "I can't list EVERYTHING". I never asked you to list everything. That would be unreasonable.

But you haven't listed any of them.

If you were afraid that I would belittle your list, then why bother to write that you can make a list? Now, instead of your list getting belittled, your comment about even having a list is being belittled.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why do you bother writing "I can list a whole lot of them" if you are not going to list any of them?

Why do you bother writing "I can't list EVERYTHING". I never asked you to list everything. That would be unreasonable.

But you haven't listed any of them.

If you were afraid that I would belittle your list, then why bother to write that you can make a list? Now, instead of your list getting belittled, your comment about even having a list is being belittled.

You feel better now?
(With some truth to it)

 

[exchemist]

Where do you live? US has marketed this COVID vaccine, media has one-sided views on getting it, CDC tried to do a pros/cons of getting the vaccine "See What CDC Recommends | Pros and Cons of the Vaccines" (In google search) but changed that same site to Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine Benefits. I guess they forgot to change the original title.

Whether I agree with taking the vaccine or not, it is pure coercion.

I just go by definition of the term. I think you're adding meanings and your personal context influences what you "hear" me telling you. It's a bias.

Coercion is using persuasion for someone to do so by force or threat. Giving people ultimatums to get vaccinated or lose their job is one. Here are some others.

Whether people are blind to it or not, take the vaccine or not, it is what it is.

As for excuse, I don't know how many times I repeated it on these threads. If I repeat it again, you'll just knock it down so why repeat it. I have no emotional dog to play in this debate.



Maybe you're not into hypotheticals. My point is it would be very drastic if such a thing happens and I would not be surprised sometime in the future it will bite us in the buttocks.



No. I think you're just hooked on the vaccine thing. Can you prove objectively that unvaccinated people are the ones who are getting affected?

I thought they just at risk of getting infected-how did they all of the sudden went from risk to infection?

Disagreeing with what you call rejection doesn't make their risk go higher (or lower)---only relative to those who are vaccinated.

Emotionalism words are things like: claim, excuse, sarcasm, etc.... it means you have a high investment on this subject....and the thing is, you don't even know me and still assume things just based on being unvaccinated. Another emotionalism is saying that (assuming) you care for others that's why you get the vaccine... so if someone doesn't get it, automatically, they don't care. Emotionalism.



It's an observation. I'll get it if you won't knock it down. It just means you're saying I'm ignorant (and said so) as a means to prove the validity of your argument.



True.

The nursing home chain where my father lives has mandated all workers to be vaccinated or lose their jobs, unless they have a medically justified exemption.

This is so obviously the right thing to do that I cannot understand why anyone would question it. Any unvaccinated worker in a care home is a potential vector of a disease that is deadly to a large proportion of the residents. It is the height of irresponsibility to put the people you are supposed to be nursing at risk of death.

In a nursing home you should be fired for not getting vaccinated, just as you should be fired for not observing basic hygiene or for muddling up people's medication.

The same goes for hospitals.

If you refuse the vaccine, that makes you a medical ignoramus - and you are in the wrong job.

This narrative of yours about "marketing", "media bias" and "provaxxers" is all crap. Nursing homes and hospital are places where medical science is practised. People who reject medical science have no business working there.

 

[Kooky]

Because, as I've said, it's how it was done and bad timing.

It was an opinion to the nature of the firing. Put in another way, if it wasn't the vaccine and something else, I'd have the same sentiments.

So to get this straight - your opposition is to a private company's ability to fire their employees at will, and not to requiring healthcare workers to be vaccinated? Your stance has nothing at all to do with your dislike of "provaxxers" as you like to call them?

I'm not one to say "I told you so..." Provaxxers do that.

I'm just going to leave this uncommented, but I can't help but express my amusement at your continued perplexion over the hostile tone people adopt towards you when you assign these hateful stereotypes to them.

 

[Suave]

What is the purpose of the warning? What is the wording of the warning?

Is it warning Young Adults to not get the vaccine?

Do you know?

Do you care?

Earlier you made this scary-sounding completely fraudulent post...

​

The Conservative Right has a long history of frightening the flock. Remember Willie Horton? Remember Obama Lies, Grandma dies.

Now, with the advent of social media, the flock have taken to scaring themselves and each other.

One has to wonder why.

I respectfully disagree with your notion of me having made a "scary-sounding completely fraudulent post." That having been stated, I will address your question of "What is the purpose of the warning?" I suppose the purpose of the warning is to inform the public there is a considerable risk of mRNA C.O.V.I.D-19 vaccinated persons getting heart inflammation caused by mRNA C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccines. The answer to your question of "What is the wording of the warning?" At this moment, I do not know how the warning will read. No is the answer to your question of "!s it warning Young Adults not to get vaccinated?" No! At this moment, the FDA is not warning all young adults to avoid getting vaccinated.

 

[Kooky]

I find it kind of distressing how people and media tend to blow something out of proportion that is part and parcel of literally any kind of medication. Of course legally approved medication is required to list possible risks and side effects; that doesn't mean the medication is going to be dangerous to most people.

Aspirine can cause internal bleeding, heart problems, and excruciating pain among a small fraction of people, and that's a drug most people buy on a regular basis in drug stores or supermarkets; by all accounts I have perused so far, most COVID vaccines carry fewer risks than some of those readily available everyday drugs.

All medication has risks - but so does not medicating, and letting a disease take its course; in the case of COVID, those risks include actually dying a painful death, or suffering debilitating long term effects, possibly for the rest of one's life, with a much higher probability than even the least safe vaccines we have so far.