Mankind's rebellion against God

[lostwanderingsoul]

Think of it as a test. God gave people the ability to make choices. Adam and Eve had a choice. They could listen to God and not eat the fruit or they could listen to Satan and eat it. People today still have a choice and most choose to follow Satan. Those who follow Satan will receive punishment and those who follow God will receive rewards. God does speak clearly to those people who folloe Him. Others do not understand because their minds are clouded by Satan.

 

[RedDragon94]

Or, God could speak clearly to his people and give them understanding and healthy Minds hearts and souls and doesn't have to punish everybody for Adam and Eve sin.

Bullocks, he did! You fail to see how free choices work.

If God hadn't created the tree of knowledge of good and evil we wouldn't have ever known what choice was, thus humanity would be unable to mirror God's image, thus we would not have been perfect beings...

... Thus God's creation would not have been good.

 

[EtuMalku]

I hear so much about Mankind's Rebellion against God. I hear that all of the Worlds problems are the result of Mankind's Rebellion against God.

So why does God give people rebellious hearts? God could give everybody the same heart and mind he gave John the Baptist and the Virgin Mary and people would behave like that.

So why does God want us to be so rebellious?

I pray to God unceasingly to have a healthy heart and mind with understanding , so that I make good choices and do his will. God refuses to provide the grace. Why? It's because God wants me to be broken, insane, impulsive, perverted, anxious, cynical, depressed, and confused. If God didn't want me that way, he would easily heal me.

I've prayed to God that I wouldn't troll on RF... sometimes my immaturity and impulsivity leads me to relapse.

I'm thinking about throwing my phone in the lake because I can't seem to moderate my internet addiction.

I'm too impulsive... No matter how much I prayed to God to relieve me of my impulsivity and defects, I get little help. I've come to the conclusion that God wants me to have these defects. The question is why? My answer to that question is to keep me humble (I guess).

People are naturally inclined to rebel against God. It isn't their fault that they're naturally inclined that way , it's God's fault. God could give them a healthy heart and Mind , and he refuses, thus he is responsible for the Rebellion.

Religion is severely divided, and those who seek the truth are coming to opposite conclusions.

God is at fault for that as well, because he could speak to everybody that seeks the truth, give them Clarity , and protect them from delusion, and he refuses to.

I feel justified in my resentment and grievances against God! He is clearly responsible for Mankind's rebellion , and responsible for all of the world's misery.

The damage Satan and the Fallen Angels do is also God's fault... God knew before he made them that they would Rebel and cause problems. He could have never made them in the first place.

He could protect us from them deceiving us and leading us astray and he refuses. God is at fault for human frailty! It's friggin obvious!

Consider this;
"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes . . . , or he doesn't care to, or he doesn't exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary."
___________________________
Sam Harris

 

[Father Heathen]

It simply is not possible for a mere human to understand God. His thinking is further above ours than ours is above grass.

So now you finally understand why the Bible, written by mere mortals who thought they understood god, should be tossed out the window?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Free will. The End teehee

Except it's not. If the Christian god is omniscient as has been claimed in the past then reality is deterministic, our choices have already been made and there is no free will.

 

[Enoch07]

Except it's not. If the Christian god is omniscient as has been claimed in the past then reality is deterministic, our choices have already been made and there is no free will.

So I can control you then? Taking your free will away just by being able to predict the future? Ahem

I predict you shall post on this website at some point in the near future.

That being said, now you must film yourself dancing like a chicken and post it here.

Just because God can see the future does not interfere with free will. You are still free to make your own choices. Just as you are free to not to follow my commands because I determined your future of posting on this site.

The pre-determinism argument is a fallacy.

 

[syo]

Mankind's Rebellion against God

there is no rebellion. everything is god's will. the good and the evil. we simply choose good or evil.

 

[Spiderman]

there is no rebellion. everything is god's will. the good and the evil. we simply choose good or evil.

Yes I do believe the evil is God's will, and I believe Satan and the Fallen Angels do God's will

 

[DavidFirth]

So now you finally understand why the Bible, written by mere mortals who thought they understood god, should be tossed out the window?

Faulty comparison.

 

[Repox]

I hear so much about Mankind's Rebellion against God. I hear that all of the Worlds problems are the result of Mankind's Rebellion against God.

So why does God give people rebellious hearts? God could give everybody the same heart and mind he gave John the Baptist and the Virgin Mary and people would behave like that.

So why does God want us to be so rebellious?

I pray to God unceasingly to have a healthy heart and mind with understanding , so that I make good choices and do his will. God refuses to provide the grace. Why? It's because God wants me to be broken, insane, impulsive, perverted, anxious, cynical, depressed, and confused. If God didn't want me that way, he would easily heal me.

I've prayed to God that I wouldn't troll on RF... sometimes my immaturity and impulsivity leads me to relapse.

I'm thinking about throwing my phone in the lake because I can't seem to moderate my internet addiction.

I'm too impulsive... No matter how much I prayed to God to relieve me of my impulsivity and defects, I get little help. I've come to the conclusion that God wants me to have these defects. The question is why? My answer to that question is to keep me humble (I guess).

People are naturally inclined to rebel against God. It isn't their fault that they're naturally inclined that way , it's God's fault. God could give them a healthy heart and Mind , and he refuses, thus he is responsible for the Rebellion.

Religion is severely divided, and those who seek the truth are coming to opposite conclusions.

God is at fault for that as well, because he could speak to everybody that seeks the truth, give them Clarity , and protect them from delusion, and he refuses to.

I feel justified in my resentment and grievances against God! He is clearly responsible for Mankind's rebellion , and responsible for all of the world's misery.

The damage Satan and the Fallen Angels do is also God's fault... God knew before he made them that they would Rebel and cause problems. He could have never made them in the first place.

He could protect us from them deceiving us and leading us astray and he refuses. God is at fault for human frailty! It's friggin obvious!

The big issue for the thread is "God should not have created beings if they rebel." It is a perfect example of the consequences of FREE WILL. God is not to blame, creatures making wrong choices are to blame.

 

[Looncall]

I hear so much about Mankind's Rebellion against God. I hear that all of the Worlds problems are the result of Mankind's Rebellion against God.

So why does God give people rebellious hearts? God could give everybody the same heart and mind he gave John the Baptist and the Virgin Mary and people would behave like that.

So why does God want us to be so rebellious?

I pray to God unceasingly to have a healthy heart and mind with understanding , so that I make good choices and do his will. God refuses to provide the grace. Why? It's because God wants me to be broken, insane, impulsive, perverted, anxious, cynical, depressed, and confused. If God didn't want me that way, he would easily heal me.

I've prayed to God that I wouldn't troll on RF... sometimes my immaturity and impulsivity leads me to relapse.

I'm thinking about throwing my phone in the lake because I can't seem to moderate my internet addiction.

I'm too impulsive... No matter how much I prayed to God to relieve me of my impulsivity and defects, I get little help. I've come to the conclusion that God wants me to have these defects. The question is why? My answer to that question is to keep me humble (I guess).

People are naturally inclined to rebel against God. It isn't their fault that they're naturally inclined that way , it's God's fault. God could give them a healthy heart and Mind , and he refuses, thus he is responsible for the Rebellion.

Religion is severely divided, and those who seek the truth are coming to opposite conclusions.

God is at fault for that as well, because he could speak to everybody that seeks the truth, give them Clarity , and protect them from delusion, and he refuses to.

I feel justified in my resentment and grievances against God! He is clearly responsible for Mankind's rebellion , and responsible for all of the world's misery.

The damage Satan and the Fallen Angels do is also God's fault... God knew before he made them that they would Rebel and cause problems. He could have never made them in the first place.

He could protect us from them deceiving us and leading us astray and he refuses. God is at fault for human frailty! It's friggin obvious!

What you describe is just what one would expect if there were no God. How about taking responsibility for your own life rather than expecting help from "above"? Help that, as you observe, is not forthcoming.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So I can control you then? Taking your free will away just by being able to predict the future? Ahem

I predict you shall post on this website at some point in the near future.

There's a difference between predicting the future and knowing what will happen. Prediction implies an inherent margin for error. Being omniscient does not.

Just because God can see the future does not interfere with free will.

It prevents us from making a choice he cannot foresee or from choosing something he is unaware of.

You are still free to make your own choices. Just as you are free to not to follow my commands because I determined your future of posting on this site.

We're only able to make choices within the system imposed upon us. We cannot choose to be free of that system because an all-knowing God sees all choices we will make, will not make and could possibly make. Just like characters in a book, our choices are already set for us in a Universe ruled by an omniscient deity because he ultimately knows what we will do.

The pre-determinism argument is a fallacy.

No it isn't and you're fallaciously using the term fallacy to dismiss an argument you don't like. I call 'fallacy' fallacy.

 

[Enoch07]

There's a difference between predicting the future and knowing what will happen. Prediction implies an inherent margin for error. Being omniscient does not.

But thats just it. God allows for free will by allowing a margin for it. We still have the freedom to change our minds and make our own decisions as individuals. While still not interfering with God's own will. The Book of Job is probably the best example.

It prevents us from making a choice he cannot foresee or from choosing something he is unaware of.

He sees all possiblities and the ramifications of each, and had allowed for all of it. Hence what I said before.

We're only able to make choices within the system imposed upon us. We cannot choose to be free of that system because an all-knowing God sees all choices we will make, will not make and could possibly make. Just like characters in a book, our choices are already set for us in a Universe ruled by an omniscient deity because he ultimately knows what we will do.

Ah but characters in a book are fictitious. They have no consciousnes. We are not characters in a book. We living breathing people with free will to chose and live as we see fit.

No it isn't and you're fallaciously using the term fallacy to dismiss an argument you don't like. I call 'fallacy' fallacy.

It's a fallacy because you don't understand how free will works inside of God's will.

 

[Stevicus]

So now you finally understand why the Bible, written by mere mortals who thought they understood god, should be tossed out the window?

Yeah but be careful when throwing the Bible out the window. Someone did that as I was passing by and the Bible hit me squarely in the chest. If not for the bullet I had in my shirt pocket, that Bible would have gone through my heart.

 

[Rinchen]

One. Dang. Tree. In. A. Garden. There were other options.

All I'm saying is, if I dont want my kids to become addicted to heroin, I wouldn't keep some in their room and tell them not to use it... If God didn't want them to eat the fruit of that tree, why put it there?

 

[Father Heathen]

Faulty comparison.

No, it's a perfect example of primitive mortals presuming to understand and speak on God's behalf, which explains why the bible is so sloppy and nonsensical. A real god would've produced something vastly superior.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I hear that all of the Worlds problems are the result of Mankind's Rebellion against God.

I hear it too. It's like God is a snowflake Who can't stand honest criticism.

Why? It's because God wants me to be broken, insane, impulsive, perverted, anxious, cynical, depressed, and confused. If God didn't want me that way, he would easily heal me.

Neurotypicals are overrated.

I've prayed to God that I wouldn't troll on RF... sometimes my immaturity and impulsivity leads me to relapse.

Sometimes God and Jesus are immature and impulsive. Jesus told you to act like God, so ....

People are naturally inclined to rebel against God.

I don't think so. For starters, we only have what some authors said God said. Some people confuse disagreeing with the authors, the pastors/priests, or the congregants with rebelling against God.

I feel justified in my resentment and grievances against God! He is clearly responsible for Mankind's rebellion , and responsible for all of the world's misery.

Yup. Buck stops at the Top.

If Adam and Eve really loved God they would have gone a different spiritual direction.

If Adam and Eve had any sense, they'd ask how a fruit has spiritual directions.

God could have never tempted him with the forbidden fruit in the first place if he knew he would just fall anyways

This is why Hera used dragons.

I just don't get the reluctance, that many theists have, to recognize that according to their own beliefs this all is God's fault.

God can be seen as a metaphor for the person. They don't wish to have personal responsibility, so they claim God has none.

Adam knew all he needed to know. He didn't care.

Except that disobeying was bad. You had to eat the Magic Fruit to get that upgrade.

They could listen to God and not eat the fruit or they could listen to Satan and eat it.

Satan is not in that story and God was less than honest while the lizard told the truth.

Others do not understand because their minds are clouded by Satan.

Why is God always so powerless to stop Satan's shenanigans? Are Christians just really Satanists instead?

I predict you shall post on this website at some point in the near future.

But you are also not God who is supposedly in charge.

Just because God can see the future does not interfere with free will. You are still free to make your own choices. Just as you are free to not to follow my commands because I determined your future of posting on this site.

Life's like a movie. Characters make choices all the time, but they HAVE to make the choices that were filmed/scripted.

God is not to blame, creatures making wrong choices are to blame.

A car manufacturer WOULD be to blame if the cars from that company kept bursting into flames or being unable to stop.

The Book of Job is probably the best example.

How so? God never asked Job if it was okay He was gonna smite him. He just did it.

Ah but characters in a book are fictitious. They have no consciousnes. We are not characters in a book. We living breathing people with free will to chose and live as we see fit.

The characters would believe they are real from their perspective, though.

All I'm saying is, if I dont want my kids to become addicted to heroin, I wouldn't keep some in their room and tell them not to use it... If God didn't want them to eat the fruit of that tree, why put it there?

In the US, you're more likely to die thanks to a toddler reaching for that gun that shouldn't be accessible than any terrorist.

 

[Spiderman]

I hear it too. It's like God is a snowflake Who can't stand honest criticism.


Neurotypicals are overrated.


Sometimes God and Jesus are immature and impulsive. Jesus told you to act like God, so ....


I don't think so. For starters, we only have what some authors said God said. Some people confuse disagreeing with the authors, the pastors/priests, or the congregants with rebelling against God.


Yup. Buck stops at the Top.


If Adam and Eve had any sense, they'd ask how a fruit has spiritual directions.


This is why Hera used dragons.


God can be seen as a metaphor for the person. They don't wish to have personal responsibility, so they claim God has none.


Except that disobeying was bad. You had to eat the Magic Fruit to get that upgrade.


Satan is not in that story and God was less than honest while the lizard told the truth.


Why is God always so powerless to stop Satan's shenanigans? Are Christians just really Satanists instead?


But you are also not God who is supposedly in charge.


Life's like a movie. Characters make choices all the time, but they HAVE to make the choices that were filmed/scripted.


A car manufacturer WOULD be to blame if the cars from that company kept bursting into flames or being unable to stop.


How so? God never asked Job if it was okay He was gonna smite him. He just did it.


The characters would believe they are real from their perspective, though.


In the US, you're more likely to die thanks to a toddler reaching for that gun that shouldn't be accessible than any terrorist.

Brilliant! You should be a prophet and write your own Bible

 

[SomeRandom]

Plot twist all of human existence is part of a bet to see how long we would go without completely annihilating ourselves. Jesus has 50 bucks on the year 3045.

 

[Enoch07]

But you are also not God who is supposedly in charge.

True, but the logic is the same. Just because the future can be predicted does not take away the free will for anyone to make choices.

Life's like a movie. Characters make choices all the time, but they HAVE to make the choices that were filmed/scripted.

No, life is more like Improv. There is a general topic but no script to follow.

How so? God never asked Job

He didn't have to. He had faith in Job. The faith that Job would remain faithful to God, no matter how bad things got for him.