Many Abodes of the Father's House

[Feedmysheep]

Christians too often have superfiscial understanding of John 14.
The thought of Jesus going to Heaven to prepare luxurious mansions there is natural minded.
We Christians need a deeper revelation of the meaning of John 14. Once the vision of what
Jesus is talking about the thought of "going to heaven" as some ultimate destiny for the saved is happily graduated from.

The saved are not going to Heaven for an ultimate destiny but going into a Person - the Triune God for a mingling
of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of God.

I hope participants will enjoy reading first John chapter 14.
Comments?

 

[Feedmysheep]

When Jesus said in His Father's house there are many abodes He meant He was not to be
the only man united with God.

Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me.
In My Father’s house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. (John 14:1,2)

For three years and some they were amazed at the marvelous life of Jesus. He now tells them that if only He could
enjoy this oneness with God He would have told them so. They should now be encouraged the He is now going
to make a way for them too to enter into a life union with Him and His Father.

May I contribute a song to John 14:1-3?

 

[Feedmysheep]

In John 14 Jesus was not speaking of going to Heaven to prepare mansions.
He has not been for two thousand years laying carpets, hanging chandaliers and curtains for millions of heavenly mansions.

Jesus was speaking of going to the cross to accomplish eternal redemption.
Eternal redemption at Calvary on His cross is where He went to prepare for us to be where He is - in the Father and the Father in Him.

The place is a living place - a living Person of God Himself.

In My Father’s house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. (John 14:2)

Does anyone still imagine that the place He goes to prepare is in Heaven?
I do not say there is no Heaven. I say the place is a living Person - the Father. And the WAY also to enter into the place is a living Person the Son Jesus Christ.

Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You are going; how can we know the way?
Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (vs. 5,6)

 

[Feedmysheep]

It is hard for Christians to drop the concept of "going to heaven" as God's ultimate desire for the saved.
It is not easy to see that we who are saved are becomming a corporate living Person - the mingling of God and humanity.

I do not say there is no Heaven. Nor do I say men will not go there temporarily before coming to reign on earth.
I say John 14 is not talking about a prepared place in Heaven. He is speaking of preparing a place in God.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

 

[Feedmysheep]

The place where He is is where He goes to prepare for redeemed sinners to also enter.

And this is His mighty petition to the Father in John 17. That is that they would be with Him where He is to behold
His glory - a glory which He had before the world was.

Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

 

[Balthazzar]

Christians too often have superfiscial understanding of John 14.
The thought of Jesus going to Heaven to prepare luxious mansions there is natural minded.
We Christians need a deeper revelation of the meaning of John 14. Once the vision of what
Jesus is talking about the thought of "going to heaven" as some ultimate destiny for the saved is happily graduated from.

The saved are not going to Heaven for an ultimate destiny but going into a Person - the Triune God for a mingling
of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of God.

I hope participants will enjoy reading first John chapter 14.
Comments?

"The mingling of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of god" ... I will add within each individual, personally. For me it's a spiritual application of truth and correctness. I will add that the many mansions would, at least for me, equate to the many governments, religions, and cultures present in life, which again ... we belong to individually.

It's a personal relationship with our own households and how we relate to the many others. Heaven for me represents a safe place, a place of security and wellbeing ... A "Haven" in another understood contextual vernacular.

 

[Feedmysheep]

"The mingling of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of god" ... I will add within each individual, personally. For me it's a spiritual application of truth and correctness. I will add that the many mansions would, at least for me, equate to the many governments, religions, and cultures present in life, which again ... we belong to individually.

It's a personal relationship with our own households and how we relate to the many others. Heaven for me represents a safe place, a place of security and wellbeing ... A "Haven" in another understood contextual vernacular.

So you would not see any necessity for the Christ to go and prepare?
I mean quite without Christ's work of eternal redemption men and women are under "governments, religions, and cultures in the present life."

I believe the "place" could not be ready for man apart from Christ being the Son of God and securing for believers a standing in God.
In your concept what need is there for Jesus to go to prepare such a place?

 

[Balthazzar]

So you would not see any necessity for the Christ to go and prepare?
I mean quite without Christ's work of eternal redemption men and women are under "governments, religions, and cultures in the present life."

I believe the "place" could not be ready for man apart from Christ being the Son of God and securing for believers a standing in God.
In your concept what need is there for Jesus to go to prepare such a place?

Considering where we come from and the hostile nature of our beginnings, I'll suggest he would go to make peace and teach principles that are able to lead us into greater security and likewise greater cooperation between houses and people. I couldn't imagine this task to be an easy one, given we often enough live it daily on earth and have yet to reconcile much current day, although some progress has been made. Truthful relations for one, and greater understanding of the nature of life would be necessitated. I'm thinking the separating of types and gathering of assemblies of likeminded types together for the haven build and for the successful many mansions' application.

 

[PureX]

Christians too often have superfiscial understanding of John 14.
The thought of Jesus going to Heaven to prepare luxurious mansions there is natural minded.
We Christians need a deeper revelation of the meaning of John 14. Once the vision of what
Jesus is talking about the thought of "going to heaven" as some ultimate destiny for the saved is happily graduated from.

The saved are not going to Heaven for an ultimate destiny but going into a Person - the Triune God for a mingling
of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of God.

I hope participants will enjoy reading first John chapter 14.
Comments?

Seems like a statement of inclusion, to me. Something a lot of religious Christians don't seem to want to respect.

 

[Yokefellow]

The saved are not going to Heaven for an ultimate destiny but going into a Person - the Triune God for a mingling
of divinity with humanity and the building of the house of God.

You are definitely grasping the deeper meaning of John 14. Maybe I can quantify it a bit more.

Going into a person.

Jesus said something that is Key to understanding the Trinity...

John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

The statement is literal. Here on Earth, Jesus is separated from the Father like a Soul separated from the Body. When Jesus is in Heaven, he is joined back with his Body and Spirit that he temporarily left behind. It is a 'merging'. This is why there is only one Throne. The Trinity sits on it.

The Redeemed will do something similar. The so called 'many mansions' or 'many abodes', I believe, are in reference to their future Tabernacle Body that they will merge with. Again, like a Soul and Spirit being 'clothed' with a 'house'...

2 Corinthians 5:2 - "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:"

Mingling of Divinity with Humanity

The phrase 'mingling' is often used to describe a Seed that is to become Born Again in a literal sense. When the dead are raised, they are non-corporeal. They are just Spirit and Soul only. It is only after the Marriage that the physical Baby can be made in a non-sinful manner. Marriage first, children second.

After the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, the Redeemed may 'clothe' themselves with one of the 'many mansions', i.e., Bodies, that are prepared and waiting for them.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Considering where we come from and the hostile nature of our beginnings, I'll suggest he would go to make peace and teach principles that are able to lead us into greater security and likewise greater cooperation between houses and people.

I agree. His life, work, death, resurrection, and coming to make an abode with His lovers has that blessing and benefit.
I enjoy a love between households of believers which is wonderful and practical.
And I enjoy a unity between members of different nations which is also very sweet.
Sometimes those nations are advasarial with one another. Yet in the Body of Christ, the church we have oneness and unity.

I agree with your highlighting such principles and the security that give rise to.

I couldn't imagine this task to be an easy one,

The task is impossible for humans in themselves . . . impossible.
And even for God it is not easy.

To create the universe for God is much easier. He just speaks and it came into being.
But to redeem man who has his own will to cooperate or not with God it is not easy for God.
In fact it envolves all His wisdom and ability. And it cost His Son the shedding of His blood to accomplish this building.

I mean the building of the redeemed into the three-one God and He being builded into them - the Father's house and the Body of Christ.

given we often enough live it daily on earth and have yet to reconcile much current day, although some progress has been made. Truthful relations for one, and greater understanding of the nature of life would be necessitated. I'm thinking the separating of types and gathering of assemblies of likeminded types together for the haven build and for the successful many mansions' application.

Let me think on this a bit more.
Thanks.

 

[Feedmysheep]

You are definitely grasping the deeper meaning of John 14. Maybe I can quantify it a bit more.

Happily it is within our grasp. How can you help us here?

Going into a person.

Jesus said something that is Key to understanding the Trinity...

Okay then. I see you may believe in the God who is Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
This is encouraging.

John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

The statement is literal. Here on Earth, Jesus is separated from the Father like a Soul separated from the Body.

How would you feel about Jesus on earth saying He was not SEPERATE from the Father in these passages?
. . . you will be scattered each to his own place and will leave Me alone; yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. (John 16:32b)

And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him. (John 8:29)

I believe the Trinity means that the three are distinct yet not seperate. One lives within the other - at no time is there seperation.

. . . He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how is it that you say, Show us the Father?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works. (John 14:9b,10)

Do these passages indicate no seperation of Father from Son?
I believe they show coinherance - the Son lives in the Father and the Father lives in the Son.

When Jesus is in Heaven, he is joined back with his Body and Spirit that he temporarily left behind.

Hold on Yokefellow.
If Jesus LEFT His spirit in Heaven when He was incarnated how could He say upon death -
And crying with a loud voice, Jesus said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. And saying this, He expired. (Luke 23:46)

Your comments intrigue me. But I have to suspend discussion for awhile.

 

[Yokefellow]

Your comments intrigue me. But I have to suspend discussion for awhile.

I understand. Rather than debate, I will leave some comments. My interpretations are not very orthodox I suppose. I will not beat you over the head with them. They are for reference if you find them useful.

Basically, when being birthed or rebirthed from Heaven to Earth, there needs to be a 'shedding of the body' so to speak. The Sons of God in Genesis did this. The event is described here...

Jude 1:6 - "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

They left their 'abode', their 'many mansions'. They shed their physical, yet celestial/supernatural, Tabernacle Body. They became 'incorporeal' and inseminated themselves into the wombs of women down here. In other words, they placed their Spirit and Soul, their 'essence', into an Ovum to conceive themselves. This process is called 'Kenosis' in Scripture.

Their so called 'wives' were also their mothers who birthed them. It is a strange concept to grasp because we think in terms of Earthly procreation, where a Father is involved down here, not 'up there'.

Sadly, the Sons of God took advantage of this ability and genetically engineered themselves to be superior to the average person.

Jesus did something similar, but he *did not* take advantage of the Kenosis process and re-engineer himself to become a 'God on Earth'...

Philippians 2:6-7 (KJV) - "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

Philippians 2:6 (New International Version) - "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;"

In both instances, the Sons of God vs. the Son of God, were in essence their own Father. Do you understand?

They conceived themselves.

Imagine you turned yourself into a Sperm and inseminated yourself into your Wife. Who is your Father? YOU are your Father. Who is your Mother? YOUR WIFE is your mother. Make sense?

In order for you to do this, you would have to shed your Earthly Tabernacle Body and place your Spirit and Soul into your Wife and fertilize her Ovum. This is Kenosis, the so called 'emptying'.

From Wikipedia:

In Christian theology, kenosis (Ancient Greek: κένωσις, romanized: kénōsis, lit. 'the act of emptying') is the "self-emptying" of Jesus.

Kenosis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesus conceived himself, which makes Jesus his own Father. Mary was both Wife *and* Mother to Jesus. It is just not generally understood this way.

And thus, it is the concept of the Trinity that allows us to put all of this together and understand the Father/Word/Holy Ghost 'three in one' trichotomy in a simple, logic way.

 

[Feedmysheep]

The Redeemed will do something similar. The so called 'many mansions' or 'many abodes', I believe, are in reference to their future Tabernacle Body that they will merge with. Again, like a Soul and Spirit being 'clothed' with a 'house'...

My responses to you may be out of sequence.

Do you believe then that for Jesus to say He and His Father come to make an abode with each of His lovers, that He is
speaking of something not during the current age?

I would teach that it is during the church age immediately after His resurrection He began to make an abode with His believers.

The abodes [plural] (John 14:2) has its singular "an abode" in verse 23.
If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (v. 23b)

You see the making of an abode with the believers after His resurrection furnishes the ground for Him to
say "Abide in Me and I in you" in the next chapter.

You would not teach that the exhortation "Abide in Me and I in you" (John 15:4) is something to wait to obey in a far future age, would you?

I think this abiding (a verb form of abode) is an exhortation to practice in the church age up His second coming.
My ground for this would be - First John 2:28 for one.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested,
we may have boldness and not be put to shame from Him at His coming. (1 John 2:28)

2 Corinthians 5:2 - "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:"

Mingling of Divinity with Humanity

The phrase 'mingling' is often used to describe a Seed that is to become Born Again in a literal sense. When the dead are raised, they are non-corporeal. They are just Spirit and Soul only. It is only after the Marriage that the physical Baby can be made in a non-sinful manner. Marriage first, children second.

I will come back to 2 Cor. 5:2.
I mean by mingling and mingle - To combine two or more things together in such a way that they remain distinguishable in the combination.

It is a biblical word used in the typology of incarnation in the fine flour mingled with oil in the meal offering.

And its meal offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering by fire to Jehovah for a satisfying fragrance. And its drink offering shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. (Lev. 23:13)

I believe the fine flour typifies the perfect humanity of the man Jesus.
And the oil the eternal Spirit of God.

After the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, the Redeemed may 'clothe' themselves with one of the 'many mansions', i.e., Bodies, that are prepared and waiting for them.

Let's revisit this latter. It is an interesting comment.
Again though it leans toward a future only application of the "many abodes" and the Triune God making an abode with the lovers of
of Jesus.

But I would agree that the "being clothed upon' with a glorified resurrected and transfigured body is not something
Christians have yet experienced. You appear to couple the abiding in Christ with the future transfiguration of the body.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Seems like a statement of inclusion, to me. Something a lot of religious Christians don't seem to want to respect.

Interesting comment.
Would you understand Jesus to qualify who is an abode of He and the Father by their love for Him?

Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (John 14:23)

Did you notice the "if" ?
That appears to include those who love Him from those who do not love Him.

Similarly there is an "He who" meets a certain condition . . . Christ will manifest Himself to such a one.

He who has My commandments and keeps them, he is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21)

Does your sense of inclusion mean a magnanimous kind of - "It matters not if you have and keep His commandments or whether there is
or is not love for Jesus" all inclusiveness?

I believe the Father's house and the mystical Body of Christ is definitely inclusive.
But I don't believe Jesus meant to portray it as inclusive without any qualifying factors.

What do you think?

 

[PureX]

Interesting comment.
Would you understand Jesus to qualify who is an abode of He and the Father by their love for Him?

Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (John 14:23)

Did you notice the "if" ?
That appears to include those who love Him from those who do not love Him.

But what does "love me" even mean?

If Jesus is speaking as the Christ, then he is not speaking of loving him as a person, but as the 'way of being' that he represents. Because Christ is a 'way of being'. (The way of being an embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity.) And anyone in any religion, or in no religion, can choose that way of being, ... choose to embody it.

Thus: there being a place for all kinds of people, and religions, and cultures, etc., under the umbrella of 'the Christ'

Similarly there is an "He who" meets a certain condition . . . Christ will manifest Himself to such a one.

He who has My commandments and keeps them, he is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21)

There was only one commandment given: to love God, ourselves, and each other, equally.

Does your sense of inclusion mean a magnanimous kind of - "It matters not if you have and keep His commandments or whether there is
or is not love for Jesus" all inclusiveness?

Those who choose to embody the spiritual way of being (Christ) will be healed and saved from themselves, and will be able to help others do the same. Those who choose self-centered fear, and all the greed and competition and conflict and suffering that entails will be lost to the consequences of their choice. I see this as a simple statement of fact. Not some theological gauntlet that must be negotiated to achieve salvation.

I believe the Father's house and the mystical Body of Christ is definitely inclusive.
But I don't believe Jesus meant to portray it as inclusive without any qualifying factors.

What do you think?

We choose 'the way of love', or we don't. There are no "qualifying factors". There is just our freedom of choice and the consequences that follow from the choices we make. The good news is that at any point we can change our minds, and be forgiven for our poor prior choices. Because that's how the 'way of love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity' works.

A lot of religious Christians seem to want to use their religiosity to set up roadblocks and conditions for others. But I think this quote is saying that any "other" is welcome under the umbrella of Christ.

 

[Balthazzar]

I agree. His life, work, death, resurrection, and coming to make an abode with His lovers has that blessing and benefit.
I enjoy a love between households of believers which is wonderful and practical.
And I enjoy a unity between members of different nations which is also very sweet.
Sometimes those nations are advasarial with one another. Yet in the Body of Christ, the church we have oneness and unity.

I agree with your highlighting such principles and the security that give rise to.

The task is impossible for humans in themselves . . . impossible.
And even for God it is not easy.

To create the universe for God is much easier. He just speaks and it came into being.
But to redeem man who has his own will to cooperate or not with God it is not easy for God.
In fact it envolves all His wisdom and ability. And it cost His Son the shedding of His blood to accomplish this building.

I mean the building of the redeemed into the three-one God and He being builded into them - the Father's house and the Body of Christ.


Let me think on this a bit more.
Thanks.

I suggested living truthfully and being sincere to be the elemental building principle that enables people to get along. Love can be extended without having any type of interaction at all. The households or communities I'm speaking about are more so about philosophy, values, interests, and ability to work together in an effort to develop and strengthen itself, no matter if it's a state or city or small town, or business entity, etc.

The division, the separating into demographics in a more geographic way would increase the cooperation of each household or community, and likewise enable other types of people to do the same in terms pf assembly and residence ... statewide. It's a more surgical type of red state blue state concept, where local communities are better enabled to self-govern. The many mansions already exist, but they are dispersed and cluttered and so progress is often slow and minorities end up losing out and what would otherwise be more beneficial for them.

We have a long way to go, but efforts are always being made for increase in improvements most everywhere. It's simple "click" mentality or "club" mentality or denomination mentality, etc. We get in where we fit in best, then make the best we can make it. If the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of truth, then the body of Christ would equate to people living truthfully and having the mind to increase quality of life, no matter if they are religious or not.

 

[Yokefellow]

Hi @Feedmysheep . I will take a look at your comments to me and reply soon.

 

[Yokefellow]

Do you believe then that for Jesus to say He and His Father come to make an abode with each of His lovers, that He is
speaking of something not during the current age?

There are two types of becoming Born Again, right?

1. Non-Literal: When a person becomes a believer and receives the renewal of the Holy Ghost.
2. Literal: When a person is resurrected or raptured and receives their Glorified Body.

The non-literal of course has been happening for thousands of years now. The literal, I believe, is still future.

I would teach that it is during the church age immediately after His resurrection He began to make an abode with His believers.

That makes sense. When a person receives the renewal of the Holy Ghost, I would agree that a tangible change has occurred and the process of being translated has begun. God sits on the Throne of the Heart. I suppose one could look at this as a type of co-residency. Sounds good to me.

The abodes [plural] (John 14:2) has its singular "an abode" in verse 23.
If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (v. 23b)

You see the making of an abode with the believers after His resurrection furnishes the ground for Him to
say "Abide in Me and I in you" in the next chapter.

I see it as a promise now and a fulfilment later. It is an ongoing process.

You would not teach that the exhortation "Abide in Me and I in you" (John 15:4) is something to wait to obey in a far future age, would you?

Good point.

Just for reference, I will give my interpretation of the verse you quoted with some context first...

John 15:1 - "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."

The above is what I call a 'Holy Genetic Engineering' verse. The 'Vine' is symbolic of DNA and the Soul. The Soul is a living organism's Genome Sequence.

It is the Word of God that is ultimately made flesh. We now know that as DNA making proteins. Jesus represents the Word of God. In other words, Jesus is symbolic the Soul of the Father (Abraham's Seed). That is why Jesus is ultimately God. When Jesus returns to the Father, he is returning to his Heavenly Body. The 'Bosom' of the Father is where the Heart is. The Heart is also symbolic of the Soul. The 'Tables of the Heart' is symbolic of where the Genome Sequences are stored, written and rewritten. Jesus goes back to the Bosom of the Father, as in literally inside. It is a merging. The 'Right Hand of God' is where the Book of Life is. Jesus is of course in the Book of Life.

Note that...

• Body
• Soul
• Spirit

is synonymous with...

• Father
• Word
• Holy Ghost

Three in one. We are tripartite beings. Let us look at the next verse...

John 15:2 - "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

The above verse is describing what I call God Eugenics. The 'Branches' are symbolic of the individual parts of our Soul, again our Genome Sequence. Some parts of our Genome Sequence are too carnal and beast like to be of any use. These would be contrary to God. They produce hate, anger, violence, adultery, murder, theft, etc.

On the other hand, some of our Genome Sequences are in alignment with God. Those are the Branches that produce 'fruit'.

The process of creating the Glorified Body is the 'God Eugenics' part. God will 'purge' the Genome Sequences that did not function properly. The more a Christian can produce 'good fruit', the more the likelihood that they will have a good part of their original Genome (Soul) intact after Resurrection or Rapture. Some folks will need more 'purging' than others.

John 15:3 - "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."

I see the above verse as more of a 'sealing' or way of stating that the Redeemed are guaranteed to be accepted into the New Jerusalem. We still have 'unclean' Genetics and a Body of corruption.

Our Spirits are at war with the bad Genomes...

Galatians 5:17 - "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

See? Our Soul, our Genome Sequence, is filled with primitive animal/beast instincts. It is contrary to the Holy Ghost Spirit. We must overcome both now and later.

Now the verse you referenced...

John 15:4 - "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

I will leave it to you as to whether you wish to view this as happening now, or later in the future. I see it as both. However, because of the context, to me the above verse is ultimately referring to the Blood of Jesus being used as the 'template' for which our Genes will be transformed and rewritten. In other words, it is an actual Gene editing process. The Life, the Soul, the Genome, is in the Blood.

Gene Splicing is referred to here...

Romans 11:24 - "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"

The Olive Tree is symbolic of a Chromatid. Two Olive Trees is symbolic of a Chromosome (Two Witnesses).

Look what happens to those with bad Genes...

John 15:6 - "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

That is a Lake of Fire verse. The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the Soul, that is to say, to destroy bad Genomes.

God Eugenics.

Thus, abiding can again mean to have God sit on the Throne of our Hearts, guiding us, teaching us, etc. And it can also mean that our Genome will be edited and merged with the Blood of Jesus to become a new 'species'. A literal abiding via the Word of God written in the Genome Tables of our Hearts.

I think this abiding (a verb form of abode) is an exhortation to practice in the church age up His second coming.
My ground for this would be - First John 2:28 for one.

And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested,
we may have boldness and not be put to shame from Him at His coming. (1 John 2:28)

Nice. Abiding before the return. There you go.

I will come back to 2 Cor. 5:2.
I mean by mingling and mingle - To combine two or more things together in such a way that they remain distinguishable in the combination.

It is a biblical word used in the typology of incarnation in the fine flour mingled with oil in the meal offering.

And its meal offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering by fire to Jehovah for a satisfying fragrance. And its drink offering shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. (Lev. 23:13)

I believe the fine flour typifies the perfect humanity of the man Jesus.
And the oil the eternal Spirit of God.

Nice.

I was thinking of the Transhumanism that the Fallen Sons of God are planning yet again, here...

Daniel 2:43 - "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Just like they did way back when, the Sons of God are going to fall (the Falling Away/Apostacy) and inseminate themselves into the wombs of Earth Women. Hybrid Humans will be the horrifying result. I believe that is the Mark of the Beast.

Just an FYI, I agree with this interpretation...

 

[Feedmysheep]

But what does "love me" even mean?

I sense a kind of cautionary - "Let's make sure we make the Father's house as wide, inclusive, and universal as possible."
Its interesting that red flags are going up like "Sectarianism alert!"

You'll find me not being drawn off into a debate on whether Christ's teaching is universal enough.
I am instead, at least first, going to talk about the Father's house not meaning Heaven.

If Jesus is speaking as the Christ, then he is not speaking of loving him as a person,

I want to respectfully respond yet I've indicated I am really not intending to argue Universalism seen in John 14.
You see it is hard for me to say "If you love Me. . . " of verse 15 means Him Himself, the Person.

I also would point out that the first verse has Jesus equate parallel belief in God and Himself.
Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me. (v.1)

I hope this doesn't have to develop into one more "Who'se saved and who is not?" argument.
I want to point out how the concept of the Father's house being Heaven is not what John 14 is about.

Do you think it is possible to discuss what John 14 about without gravitating into just one more "Okay, whose saved and who is not?"

Perhaps its hard because there are in HIS words "no one comes to the Father except through Me." (v.6)
I am going to try to leave this with you. I believe there is a difference in Jesus saying "No one comes to the Father except through Me" and someone saying "No one comes to the Father except through Christianity." That's my opinion that the two statements are not completely the
same.

but as the 'way of being' that he represents. Because Christ is a 'way of being'.

I agree. I agree that the way of being, living, and entering into this Father's house is Christ Himself.
It is Christ Himself living out Christ within the ones with whom He and the Father as the divine "We" (v.23) have come to make an abode.

When I saw this does alarms go off for you "Watch out. Sectarian alert! Exclusivism alert!"
I don't know. I am new to the Forum. And the rules seem to indicate in this Area things like this can be hashed out with those
who wish to examine or present a debating point.

At any rate I believe what came out of the mouth of Christ was Him pointing to Himself as the way.
Do you read it as "I have a way" or "I am the way"?

(The way of being an embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity.)

I totally agree. And all those riches in their purest expression are in the living and available Jesus.
Within the discussed chapter Jesus said something unusual.

Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live. (v. 19)

For awhile I thought that strange. I thought "But I'll live even if Jesus does not live."
Then I realized He is speaking of the real living as being a living in an "organic" union with Him in His resurrected state.
That is a mingling and incoporation of His indestructible life with the life of the receiver of Him.

. . . the world beholds Me no longer - because He physically is absent from the world after His ascension.
. . . but you behold Me - because of the deeper "beholding" of Him as the life giving Spirit and another Comforter living in the disciples.
. . . because I live, you also shall live- because He is the life which is really life - the life mingled with His resurrected presence.

And anyone in any religion, or in no religion, can choose that way of being, ... choose to embody it.

Universalem ?
You'll find me more wanting to talk about this "place" being prepared for us through Christ's redemptive death and resurrection.
The place is the triune God of the Gospel.

" I will receive you to Myself " (v.3a) is personal - Jesus.
" no one comes to the Father . . . " (v.60) is peronal.
" I go to prepare a place for you," (v.2) is personal, as if no one else in the world is able to do so.

"He said therefore again to them, I am going away, and you will seek Me and will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come." (John 8:21) is personal. As well meaning as men and women can be where He is going only He can go then.

Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, where are You going? Jesus answered him,
Where I go you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later. (John 13:36)
Though the dedicated Peter cannot go with Him now He can go latter.

This comes back to Him going to die to make a standing for His believers in God.
After His redemptive death and His resurrection to receive them to Himself, Peter and all believers CAN go to be in this place.

Peter swore that wherever Jesus was going He would go too even if it mean he should have to die.
He mistook himself for the person he wanted to be.

Peter said to Him, Lord, why can’t I follow You now? I will lay down my life for You.
Jesus answered, Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly, I say to you, A rooster shall by no means crow until you deny Me three times. (John 13:37,38)

As dedicated as the leading disciple was, because of his fallen nature it was as easy for him to deny the Lord Jesus
as it is for the rooster to crow in the morning. So the way to go into God must be prepared by Jesus going to the cross
to accomplish eternal redemption for sinners.

Thus: there being a place for all kinds of people, and religions, and cultures, etc., under the umbrella of 'the Christ'

There was only one commandment given: to love God, ourselves, and each other, equally.

I can't do it. In myself I only care for my own skin like Peter.
Without Him indwelling man as a mingled life in union we are not able to live this way.
Only Jesus is absolute for the will of the Father.

But I know who can. And He died and rose to indwell men as the life giving Spirit that He became - the pneumatic Christ.
The last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

Here in John 14 He says that He is going and He is coming.
And He will not leave the disciples as orphans. He is coming to them as the Spirit of reality, the another Comforter.

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, (v.16)
This "another Comforter" implies there was a first Comforter.
This "another Comforter" will be with them unto eternity.

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. (v.17)
The "another Comforter" is actually the first Comforter in another form.
As a physical presence He was the Comforter AMONG them.
As His resurrection form He will be the "another Comforter" who will be IN them.

Upon physical resurrection He also transfigured Himself into a divine life giving Spirit the Spirit of Reality.
He goes from being among them to being in them.

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. (v.18)
He is going to the cross.
Nevertheless He will not leave His believers as orphans.
In His resurrection state as "another Comforter" He is coming to them.
That is the first Comforter come in another form.

Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live.

Real life is to live in the organic union with the resurrected Christ. And the unspeakable comfort is in them living by Him.
I believe that this is what He meant.