Many different religious opinions

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's not binary all or nothing. Each can have an element of truth.

And a plausible alibi can contain an element of truth, and keep a guilt perpetrator out of jail.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Religions deliver on their promises. It's why so many people adhere to them. But not everyone seeks the same results, or identifies them by the same reasoning.

So religion "X" promises that it will rain. And it will.

That is NOT an example of religion delivering on its promises. It would have rained, when it did, whether Religion "X" had promised it or not. False attribution doesn't make anything true.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Ok, it works for your needs but does it work as advertised?
Does it like put ads out they say something like, " We exist to help you cope with life"?

Advertising would be appropriate if religion were a commercial product; and it's arguable I suppose, that to some adherents in some circumstances, religion is exactly that. But given the distinction most religions make between worldly concerns and spiritual ones, I'd say religions which advertise like businesses do should be treated with more than usual caution.

 

[PureX]

That is NOT an example of religion delivering on its promises.

Says who?

It would have rained, when it did, whether Religion "X" had promised it or not.

Yes, a promise fulfilled even before it was asked for!

False attribution doesn't make anything true.

Nothing false about it. The rain comes.

 

[RestlessSoul]

That is NOT an example of religion delivering on its promises. It would have rained, when it did, whether Religion "X" had promised it or not. False attribution doesn't make anything true.

But the religious person will thank God, the Universe, or Mother Nature for the rain, and in doing so gain a measure of both gratitude and humility. Thus, religion delivers tangible benefits beyond rain alone.

 

[PureX]

But the religious person will thank God, the Universe, or Mother Nature for the rain, and in doing so gain a measure of both gratitude and humility. Thus, religion delivers tangible benefits beyond rain alone.

And what did the skeptic's skepticism gain him? Nothing that he didn't already have, and didn't much appreciate.

 

[osgart]

Life is an ineffable mystery. There's a whole other dimension to life that can't be explained with physics. So many religions may have slight elements of truth to them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok, it works for your needs but does it work as advertised?
Does it like put ads out they say something like, " We exist to help you cope with life"?

Remember this. So to a former atheist like me and a current skeptic, religion is not about truth and all that. It is about that it works for me as me. I don't care if some view it as an illusion, because the illusion works for me.

And my religion is in effect so syncretic from religion, philosophy and all the non-hard science that it is my own personal version.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Such still doesn't tend to incorporate all of the spectrum though (oh, the contradictions) - and being rather selective as to much else - choosing which prophets are legitimate or not, for example.

Having a mind that embraces the Oneness of God, also has the capacity to embrace the diversity of God, and start unravelling as to how and why that Oneness can be so diverse.

I like the metephor of the sun and the prism. God is the source of light, pure and white, containing all possible wavelengths of colour.

It is not until the light passes through a Prism that it is refracted and seen as the rainbow of colours.


The Prism of our world has the white light entering, refracted in all the Names of God, thus our vision of the world becomes our chosen frame of reference. We can embrace all the colours of the rainbow.

Regards Tony

 

[Alien826]

Well said.

But I would add that the 'skeptics' perspective can also be quite dogmatically held, and even proselytized. And is, to varying degrees, by many, here. Mostly because they are only skeptical of other people's beliefs, not their own.

Of course. As far above the herd as we skeptics are, we still remain human.

 

[Alien826]

And what did the skeptic's skepticism gain him? Nothing that he didn't already have, and didn't much appreciate.

Some personal exposure is required here (no not that).

I don't question things to be awkward or rain on any parades. I do so because I have to. As a child my mother tried to instill "table manners" in me. She failed, mostly. I couldn't see the point of using one particular utensil over another if either did the job, and demanded an explanation of why it mattered. Of course she couldn't come up with anything, because, at bottom there is no such reason. "Because people do" is semantically null to me.

This just one example. I have an insatiable curiosity, and a disinclination to accept anything that doesn't make sense to me. So it's always, why, how? So if you say that accepting a falsehood (like the prayer causing the rain) is acceptable it's just gibberish to me. Why would anyone believe anything that was not strictly true? "If ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" ... that has some attraction, and even makes sense to some extent, but I can't do it. Can't not won't. Would I be happier "ignorant"? Probably, but I CAN'T.

I do try not to be rude, or hurt people's feelings and have, with advancing years, walked away from many confrontations that I would never have done at one time.

The following true story may help. I once "tested" religious belief by asking "god" to tell me if he existed. It seemed to my logical mind that if a "person" exists then the best way to get answers about that person is to ask them, not rely on the beliefs of others or ancient documents. To my surprise, I got an answer, though not in words. Here's the point. All I "believed" at that stage was that "something" had communicated with me. All the rest was to be determined. I then proceeded stepwise, asking for knowledge to be revealed bit by bit. I spent some time as a member of a Christian church, but never came to believe the basic stuff like salvation, trinity, virgin birth and so on. Eventually it faded away. I can only conclude that I somehow cooked it all up in my mind.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I see religion as self-fulfilling. You see what you want to see kind of thing. The people of Earthseed believe we are shaping God. In my own development I have found ways in which we shape God. Most people don't see God as utility, generosity, sagacity, sovereignty or unity, but because I see it as apparent in every society in some way, it's self-fulfilling. People who want to believe that someone is God is going to see them as God and then use examples to self-enforce that opinion. To me, religion is not a fact but an opinion, and opinions cannot be either right nor wrong.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Very few religious people do that. They may believe their religion is right, because they believe it's right for them. But they don't go around trying to prove everyone else's religious beliefs are wrong.

It seems to be the atheists that are constantly trying to do that.

Legal history begs to differ.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But the religious person will thank God, the Universe, or Mother Nature for the rain, and in doing so gain a measure of both gratitude and humility. Thus, religion delivers tangible benefits beyond rain alone.

And what did the skeptic's skepticism gain him? Nothing that he didn't already have, and didn't much appreciate.

I guess for some people, gratitude is impossible on its own -- you appear to need something to be grateful TO, even if you have to invent or imagine it.

Gratitude works equally well just being grateful FOR.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I guess for some people, gratitude is impossible on its own -- you appear to need something to be grateful TO, even if you have to invent or imagine it.

Gratitude works equally well just being grateful FOR.

Logically if you are 'grateful for', then it is grateful for something?

Grateful for Love, peace, health, life etc.

Then, one is grateful to the source of the Love, peace, health, life etc

Regards

 

[Nakosis]

And my religion is in effect so syncretic from religion, philosophy and all the non-hard science that it is my own personal version.

I suspect this is true for more people than that are consciously aware of it.
Most everyone takes what religions gives them and makes it into something they are comfortable with.

 

[Nakosis]

Advertising would be appropriate if religion were a commercial product; and it's arguable I suppose, that to some adherents in some circumstances, religion is exactly that. But given the distinction most religions make between worldly concerns and spiritual ones, I'd say religions which advertise like businesses do should be treated with more than usual caution.

I was going to argue with you but I suppose there is a difference between religion and a business that offers a commercial product at least in the subtlety of how they go about it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Logically if you are 'grateful for', then it is grateful for something?

Grateful for Love, peace, health, life etc.

Then, one is grateful to the source of the Love, peace, health, life etc

Regards

That is NOT logical. As with everything that the religious do, it introduces something that is not in evidence, then assumes that "something" exists and is the source of whatever you're grateful for. You know, sometimes, peace, for example, is the result of all the combatents being just too exhausted to fight anymore.

And who exactly are you grateful to for your health, when someone you love is in poor health, although you live together, eat the same food together, go to the same doctor? Because then you are going to have to admit that your loved one's poor health is blameworthy, and blame that same "source" that you thank for your good health.

That's foolish.

 

[Nakosis]

Religions deliver on their promises. It's why so many people adhere to them. But not everyone seeks the same results, or identifies them by the same reasoning.

So religion "X" promises that it will rain. And it will. But not immediately. So one man believes the promise was delivered, while another man believes it was not. See what I mean when I ask, "by who's criteria"? Most of the humans on Earth find that their religions deliver on their promises. But you don't. And obviously you don't want to, or else you would be willing alter your criteria for a 'promise fulfilled' to see it as having been fulfilled. And you're not. But others will, and do.

It is easy to keep customers as long as you can continually reset their expectations.
I suppose if eternal hope is the product then religions have delivered that.

 

[Brian2]

Before a deeper reply is given some information is needed; was this a general statement, or one to me specifically?

It would apply to anyone who says "Y'know, very few religions actually set out to be "right". For the majority of us, it's not a race or contest. So the only question to ask is: Is it right for us? That is all that matters."
I thought I remembered you trying to show the beliefs of others to be wrong, so it was directed at you specifically initially.