Marie Yavanovitch Testimony

[Kangaroo Feathers]

All these credible witnesses with their objective facts! So unfair!

 

[Shad]

first you said aid was withheld due to corruption and anti corruption and that was proven false. Now you say the POTUS determines US foreign policy not the pentagon. All I see is you playing trivial games instead of addressing the issues.

No it wasn't.

 

[Shad]

LOL.....I suppose if you want to hang your hat on "Trump didn't withhold every type of security assistance", be my guest.

Wrong. He didn't without the aid with a specific item you want to link up.

Again, by law the Pentagon is tasked with clearing a country to receive aid.

Sure

They had done so, yet Trump put a hold on that aid, which we now know was part of the scheme to get Ukraine to announce investigations into the Bidens and the Russian propaganda story about 2016.

Trump can withhold aid. And you do not know you heard opinions. No witness had knowledge of why the aid was held

Not for his own personal political gain.

Assertion and projection

I have to say, I'm amazed to see how conservatives are effectively arguing that a President can basically do what he wants, whenever he wants.

Nope. You have no direct evidence. You treat your assumption as fact. Nothing more

IIRC, it wasn't all that long ago many of the same folks were decrying President Obama's executive orders and policy decisions as "tyranny" and such.

Probably.

I supported Obama.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Man you really are a propaganda spreader. The republicans would not complain about being given less time, less call for witnesses if they made the rules. And adam shift is the chairman, not the republicans. Common sense! And why would they make rules that hurt fairness for themselves? MORE common sense!

Um, excuse me?

The Democrats have re-used most of the same rules and procedures from the Clinton impeachment hearings that the Republicans carried out, with some few differences. I know you are aware of this because I’ve seen it pointed out to you. The Republicans are just whining now, because the rules that were good enough for them 20 years ago, suddenly aren’t working in their favour, because they’re no longer in the majority. Well boo hoo. Karma sucks, I guess.

Quit making **** up. Your a lier! They spoke well within there turn. Adam shift interrupted. Actually, when adam got called on it, he backpeddled and changed his verdict too! Why? Because he knew he was wrong!

You are becoming increasingly unhinged and rude, that tells me a lot. Kinda like the Republicans during the hearings.

I have seen with my own eyes, Jordan, Nunes and Stefanik trying to be disruptive and/or speak out of turn on more than one occasion. I guess you missed those parts.

By the way, Adam Schiff is allowed to interrupt – it’s actually his job as Chair of the Intelligence Committee to keep order in the hearings.

Stop with the lying. Its not cool at all. And it tells me you dont give a **** about facts or truth.

What I said there is most definitely true. Adam Schiff is the Chair of the Intelligence Committee. Are you seriously denying that?

You know, just screaming out in expletives that someone is a liar might make you feel better, but it doesn’t make it true.

Yes it is a strawman and yes it does make sense. Only you make no sense.

Listen to me very carefully. You argued a strawman, period. I shouldnt even have to explain that you did. I should only have to say you did and that should be the end of it right there. The fact i gotta explain to you why your strawman is still a strawman shows that your an utter failure to no end!

Um no, it doesn’t work that way. You don’t just get to claim whatever you want and it becomes fact just because you said it. Seriously, aren’t you the one always going on about common sense??

So, here goes: when i say the words lefties, commies, democrats, i am not saying its not about truth vs lies, right vs wrong, facts vs none facts. What i am saying is a form of communication. Im using those terms to use simple communication. Those terms have real meanings. What works best in a societies prosperity? Rigut or left? The rights policies do.

So, what works vs what does not work (i.e truth vs lies).

But it’s merely your opinion that “rights policies do” work and that is based on the political affiliation that you identify with. That is a political stance, rather than a “truth versus lies” stance. It’s a bias, based on political affiliation.

However, in the case of these testimonies there talking about specific issues in relation to impeachment. Its not talking about right vs left. But, some people will defend a candidate that is bad simply due to them being in there political party. Or some people will reject a candidate simply because there not in there party.

Yes, some people will stick to partisan hackery instead of analyzing the actual facts.

I strive not to be one of those people.

In anycase, if we wer to debate about the best way to garden, it would be about what works best vs what doesnt. If i kept calling you a leftist, it would just be a term im using. It does not mean im not dealing with the issues.

It would mean that you’re making gardening into a partisan practice. Why on earth would you call me a lefty if we’re talking about gardening when gardening is apolitical? “Lefty”
is an inherently political term.

What it’s about, is a certain mindset.

Yes, it is a political mindset.

Your posts are some of the most partisan stuff I’ve ever seen. You equate democrats with communists – you have an entire thread that is actually called “Democrate part is communist.”

I will demonstrate for you ... Here is a sampling of the types of posts I am talking about, right from this very thread:

“Denialism comes from you lefties and thats all you know how to do is throw articles at people because you dont understand lick about anything you talk about. You lefties dont address arguments or all questions and are the ultimate projectors”

“ The leghths you lefties go too in order to atleast say something. Youl say anything. But by doing so, you make your dwnial so obvious and that makes you look bad … “

“… you lefties, you never clue in.”

“Hows trump corrupt here when you just legitimized trumps call to investigate the bidens by just calling the bidens corrupt!? Lol, only lefties! I swear!”

It sounds like you’re coming at this from a partisan position. What do you think?

I agree that this should not be a right vs. left situation, but unfortunately it is. You have not stayed above the fray, as you seem to think. I would love if everyone were able to view these hearings in as an objective manner as possible. That’s what I strive for.

The reality is, you and prometheus are not addressing the issues when you argue your strawman arguments.

There is no straw man argument here.

What issues have we not addressed? Like, seriously. It seems we’ve touched on just about everything related to the impeachment hearings – witness testimony, where the rules came from, how it’s being carried out, who said what, etc.

When i tell you both that this is about truth vs lies, im saying i address the issues and i want you both to do the same. That means address my arguments and questions. And ill do likewise. Of course, i work for a living, i do my own research that is SEPERATE FROM talking with you or prometheus. So, if i dont respond to every post it dont mean im trying to run from addressing anything.

We have addressed your arguments and questions, many times over. And all without referring to you as a “rightie” or a “zombie” or any equivalent of the names you like to call out.

But, if i wer to respond to arguing a strawman on you, that would be me not addressing the issues. I would not waste my time responding like that. If however i did so by accident and you corrected my misunderstanding, then i would respond differently based on the new uderstanding.

However, the problem with you and prometheus and alot of other lefties ive experienced is you make strawmen, get corrected and yet you keep it up. Your brazenly stubborn beyond measure. And thats also why i call lefties zombies. Because there seams to be NO CURE. You keep on keeping on with this sickness of strawman arguments. Misrepresenting is another word for it. It dont matter what you call it, but anyone can misunderstand. The problem isnt that. The problem AFTER the misunderstanding gets corrected, you then keep it up. Which then it goes beyond a innocent misunderstanding. It goes into misrepresenting which is DISHONESTY at that point. And in my book, dishonesty is the same thing as being an outright BAD PERSON.

There, now that i explained it, your still going to keep up the strawman. And if you dont, ill be surprised. If you do, youl only show how deep your seething pride is.

And then here you are going after your “lefty” stereotypes again and name calling again, as though you didn’t just say everything you did above. Like, seriously, you can’t make this stuff up. Don’t bother lecturing people if you can’t walk the walk yourself.

So the republicans wanting to grill her on the bidens justifies her lie under oath? Really?

She lied, period. I proved she lied in showing her two quotes. I posted them now 3 or 4 times. I should have only needed to do it once. But, there is no cure for zombeism.

You didn’t prove that, as several posters have noted. But whatever, here you are calling people zombies again, which of course, you equate with “lefties.”

Unhinged are strawman arguers who get corrected and then keep up the strawmen arguments. Thats what you call unhinged.

Me standing firm in the points i made due to the fact i KNOW there validity is not called unhinged, its called honesty.

Um, the “unhinged” part I’m referring to is your cursing and name calling that seems to have worsened as the thread has progressed. I actually have no problem with cursing, but seriously dude, it’s not making you look calm and rational.

 

[Prometheus85]

And then here you are going after your “lefty” stereotypes again and name calling again, as though you didn’t just say everything you did above. Like, seriously, you can’t make this stuff up. Don’t bother lecturing people if you can’t walk the walk yourself.

Some folks in this world spend their whole time hunting after righteousness, and can't find any time to practice it.

 

[Jose Fly]

Wrong. He didn't without the aid with a specific item you want to link up.

It's now being reported that the javelins were sent "on the condition they not be used".

Trump can withhold aid.

According to testimony yesterday, if the President withholds aid, by law he must inform both Congress and the Pentagon. Trump did neither.

No witness had knowledge of why the aid was held

Every single person who's testified has said the same thing...the aid was withheld under the direction of the President. So now we need to hear from those who would know what the President's reasons were (Mulvaney is apparently the key on that).

Assertion and projection

It's in the call transcripts. "We're ready to buy some javelins" "I need a favor though...". And yes, I'm well aware that you prefer the absurd-on-its-face argument that there's no link at all between those two statements.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You pointed out the link to Javelins not I. Yet Javelins were not part of the hold. Poof.

The hold was due to corruption and anti-corruption.

Weird that Zelensky was asking when they'd be getting the javelins in that famous phone call then, isn't it. Right before Trump tells him he wants a favour though.
Hmmm ...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Weird that Zelensky was asking when they'd be getting the javelins in that famous phone call then, isn't it. Right before Trump tells him he wants a favour though.
Hmmm ...

why abide by the basic conventions of understanding how conversations work, when instead you can be willfully obtuse to protect your beloved, but blatantly false, narrative?

 

[wandering peacefully]

Perhaps you need poopcorn?

I'm so glad that's over for now. It was so heinous watching those rabid haters, there were,a couple at least for sure, denigrating those civil servants that have more honesty, dignity, class, and professionalism than all of POTUS and his groupie's middle fingers put together. I usually try to be open minded and look at the actual provable facts from both sides but all that negative talk about those good servants is just disgusting.
I mean over as in these day long testimonies. I think some cronies may end up in jail over their involvement and denials.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm so glad that's over for now. It was so heinous watching those rabid haters, there were,a couple at least for sure, denigrating those civil servants that have more honesty, dignity, class, and professionalism than all of POTUS and his groupie's middle fingers put together. I usually try to be open minded and look at the actual provable facts from both sides but all that negative talk about those good servants is just disgusting.
I mean over as in these day long testimonies. I think some cronies may end up in jail over their involvement and denials.

I caught bits & pieces when I had my radio on.
Nuthin worth hearing.

 

[Shad]

Weird that Zelensky was asking when they'd be getting the javelins in that famous phone call then, isn't it. Right before Trump tells him he wants a favour though.
Hmmm ...

Javelin missiles were never on hold. This was covered by the hearing two days ago by multiple witnesses.

 

[Shad]

It's now being reported that the javelins were sent "on the condition they not be used".

Which was about escalations with Russia and nothing to do with the hold. This was covered in the hearing.

According to testimony yesterday, if the President withholds aid, by law he must inform both Congress and the Pentagon. Trump did neither.

Nope.

Every single person who's testified has said the same thing...the aid was withheld under the direction of the President.

Yah as he is POTUS.

So now we need to hear from those who would know what the President's reasons were (Mulvaney is apparently the key on that).

Rudy too.

It's in the call transcripts. "We're ready to buy some javelins" "I need a favor though...". And yes, I'm well aware that you prefer the absurd-on-its-face argument that there's no link at all between those two statements.

Nope. You keep speculating and maybe you will hit a fact sooner or later.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I caught bits & pieces when I had my radio on.
Nuthin worth hearing.

No, it wasn't for sure and I usually don't torture myself with these nonsense political circus acts, but for some reason I was glued to this one.

Donny should just stop talking for the rest of his stint. It's plain embarrassing. And apparently maybe dangerous to national security. Though I do find this a distraction and not worth the manpower and time pursuing. Every one knows what kind of a person he was when they hired him.
If nothing comes of this it's going to make the left look really bad. The right doesn't care how bad they look so this isn't going to hurt them at all.

 

[Shad]

I caught bits & pieces when I had my radio on.
Nuthin worth hearing.

Today had nothing to offer so far. The phone guy's claim is hilarious, it has no credibility. Fredo debunked it while trying to prove it.

 

[Jollybear]

FYI it’s not "Adam Shiff Rules” Republican were the ones that created the rules and Republicans on the committee intentionally broke rules to pretend Adam Schiff was mistreating them.

You got proof of that?

 

[Jollybear]

he took his statement back because it was proving to be false. Perhaps you can’t fathom someone taken they’re false statements back because you make false statements all the time and never take them back even when they are proven to be false.

No, what your saying is a misunderstanding. He said yovonavich never gave him a written list. She did give him a verbal list and that claim he did not recant.

 

[Jollybear]

Um, excuse me?

The Democrats have re-used most of the same rules and procedures from the Clinton impeachment hearings that the Republicans carried out, with some few differences. I know you are aware of this because I’ve seen it pointed out to you. The Republicans are just whining now, because the rules that were good enough for them 20 years ago, suddenly aren’t working in their favour, because they’re no longer in the majority. Well boo hoo. Karma sucks, I guess.



You are becoming increasingly unhinged and rude, that tells me a lot. Kinda like the Republicans during the hearings.

I have seen with my own eyes, Jordan, Nunes and Stefanik trying to be disruptive and/or speak out of turn on more than one occasion. I guess you missed those parts.

By the way, Adam Schiff is allowed to interrupt – it’s actually his job as Chair of the Intelligence Committee to keep order in the hearings.

What I said there is most definitely true. Adam Schiff is the Chair of the Intelligence Committee. Are you seriously denying that?

You know, just screaming out in expletives that someone is a liar might make you feel better, but it doesn’t make it true.



Um no, it doesn’t work that way. You don’t just get to claim whatever you want and it becomes fact just because you said it. Seriously, aren’t you the one always going on about common sense??



But it’s merely your opinion that “rights policies do” work and that is based on the political affiliation that you identify with. That is a political stance, rather than a “truth versus lies” stance. It’s a bias, based on political affiliation.



Yes, some people will stick to partisan hackery instead of analyzing the actual facts.

I strive not to be one of those people.



It would mean that you’re making gardening into a partisan practice. Why on earth would you call me a lefty if we’re talking about gardening when gardening is apolitical? “Lefty”
is an inherently political term.



Yes, it is a political mindset.

Your posts are some of the most partisan stuff I’ve ever seen. You equate democrats with communists – you have an entire thread that is actually called “Democrate part is communist.”

I will demonstrate for you ... Here is a sampling of the types of posts I am talking about, right from this very thread:

“Denialism comes from you lefties and thats all you know how to do is throw articles at people because you dont understand lick about anything you talk about. You lefties dont address arguments or all questions and are the ultimate projectors”

“ The leghths you lefties go too in order to atleast say something. Youl say anything. But by doing so, you make your dwnial so obvious and that makes you look bad … “

“… you lefties, you never clue in.”

“Hows trump corrupt here when you just legitimized trumps call to investigate the bidens by just calling the bidens corrupt!? Lol, only lefties! I swear!”

It sounds like you’re coming at this from a partisan position. What do you think?

I agree that this should not be a right vs. left situation, but unfortunately it is. You have not stayed above the fray, as you seem to think. I would love if everyone were able to view these hearings in as an objective manner as possible. That’s what I strive for.



There is no straw man argument here.

What issues have we not addressed? Like, seriously. It seems we’ve touched on just about everything related to the impeachment hearings – witness testimony, where the rules came from, how it’s being carried out, who said what, etc.



We have addressed your arguments and questions, many times over. And all without referring to you as a “rightie” or a “zombie” or any equivalent of the names you like to call out.



And then here you are going after your “lefty” stereotypes again and name calling again, as though you didn’t just say everything you did above. Like, seriously, you can’t make this stuff up. Don’t bother lecturing people if you can’t walk the walk yourself.



You didn’t prove that, as several posters have noted. But whatever, here you are calling people zombies again, which of course, you equate with “lefties.”



Um, the “unhinged” part I’m referring to is your cursing and name calling that seems to have worsened as the thread has progressed. I actually have no problem with cursing, but seriously dude, it’s not making you look calm and rational.

You know what? Your not worth responding to. Its that simple. I can see what kind of manipulating, dishonest person you are. And due to that, i know by responding in detail it wont be worth the dirt on my shoe.

Find some other righty to speak your vomit!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Javelin missiles were never on hold. This was covered by the hearing two days ago by multiple witnesses.

"Republicans involved in the impeachment inquiry have repeatedly touted the Trump administration's sale of anti-tank missiles to Ukraine as evidence the president is supportive of the country against Russian aggression, but they've left out key details in the process.

Under the rules of the sale, the Javelin missiles have to be stored in western Ukraine, which is far from the frontlines of the ongoing conflict in the eastern part of the country (the Donbas region) against pro-Russia separatists.

In short, the Javelins were essentially provided to Ukraine under the condition that they not be used in the conflict zone.

Accordingly, the Javelins have yet to be used in the fighting, though US personnel are training some Ukrainian forces how to use them against tanks."
There's a huge loophole in the GOP's claim that Trump's sale of Javelin missiles to Ukraine shows his support for the country

 

[SkepticThinker]

You know what? Your not worth responding to. Its that simple. I can see what kind of manipulating, dishonest person you are. And due to that, i know by responding in detail it wont be worth the dirt on my shoe.

Find some other righty to speak your vomit!

That's about what I expected from somebody who has become increasingly partisan, unhinged and rude as this thread has progressed. Facts are tough things.

We now have members of Congress spouting Russian propaganda, as Fiona Hill explained yesterday. But the rest of us are the manipulative dishonest people simply because you think we're "lefties" and "communists." Keep telling yourself that.

Take care!