Master Path - Gary Olsen

[end_of_faith]

I realize that a new person, coming to view page 52 for the first time, would not necessarily know what to believe given the comments on this page. Certainly the comments condemning MasterPath feed upon the fears of new seekers. Consciously or unconsciously, the fear of being taken advantage of is strong, and is the main opposition to exploring the possibility that a spiritual teacher might be legitimate.

You *realize* what a new person may or may not (know to) believe? Really? Wow, does that type of omniscience qualify you to be called “master?” But hey, all kidding aside, why not just accept that people believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence supporting or condemning that belief. Ultimately, each of us must stand alone in our truth.

Negative criticism of MasterPath does not “feed upon the fears of new seekers.” It allows contrary viewpoints to co-exist in exploring the probability that a teacher claiming to be spiritually legitimate may not be so.

Wait, so Gary is smart enough to teach Karma, but doesn't believe in it himself? He's smart enough to know that false gurus will pay a heavy, heavy reckoning, but considers himself exempt from such rules? Even though every one of his lectures stresses the importance of treating others fairly and upholding the truth?

Plagiarizing the writings of other paths does not mean the author has realized the teaching. Regurgitating principles codified by other teachings does not mean realization of the consciousness. Familiarity with a word does not mean the utterance of it is a living testament of the spirit behind it. A change in consciousness (profound in the believer’s mind) is not conclusive evidence that the teacher attributed with effecting the change is a sat guru.

Karma is one of the most misunderstood spiritual concepts I have encountered.

Then why are you so concerned with what a new seeker may or may not believe given your deep and far-reaching understanding of karma?

...In my experience, karma does not have anything to do with morality. It is simply cause and effect. And, as spiritual students, it is knowable. The effects of our actions come back to us immediately. What would be the instructive value of Karma if it worked independently from us, and we had no idea what was going on? That's like hooking someone up to electrodes and shocking them randomly--there is no behavior you're trying to elicit. Karma doesn't work that way. It's intent is to give us exactly what we envision or try to create. The issue is, most of us are trying to create better physical conditions for ourselves, which is not a spiritual goal. It's not an un-spiritual goal; its purpose is to wake us up eventually to realize that's not really what we should be going for (if we are fortunate enough to find material things unfulfilling.)

It is entertaining to read your thoughts on karma, what it is, what it is not and how spirituality is defined according to your paradigm. You state: “most of us are trying to create better physical conditions for ourselves, which is not a spiritual goal.”

Your “master” envisioned flying to and from seminars in a private jet to “create better physical conditions for [himself].” Based on your articulation of karma, is your master’s goal (serving his personal comfort) “spiritual?” Or, through the lens of your spiritual paradigm is that a "guru perk" beyond the ken of our understanding? Or, perhaps your “guru” has been fortunate enough to find that “material thing” [an expensive & luxurious lifestyle perk] unfulfilling?

For me, teacher and master mean the same thing. People on this forum who don't like Gary are so sensitive about that word "master". I come from an eastern tradition, and the word master simply means teacher. Because pseudo gurus have done so much damage in the US, it has become a dirty word. Every single talk, Gary stresses that he's just an outer guide (he literally uses those words.) In most talks, he emphasizes that our own involvement is the key to our spiritual unfoldment, in conjunction with the help of the INNER master. Gary himself would say he's only pointing his finger at the moon, and to NOT worship him, the man. Every single talk he says this, but still people who have no idea keep picking and choosing whatever they want to misquote Gary.

I’m not sensitive about the word “master.” There is great humor in meaninglessness. Ah, the eastern tradition bastardized by western men all claiming to be “the master guru.” Co-opting the honorific title of “Sri” or adding the “ji” to their names to be used as a mantra by devoted followers. Yes, they all share in the damage.

Let’s see: Gary was a 12-year student with Eckankar before declaring his “Godhood.” From Eckankar alone we have Paul Twitchell, Darwin Gross, Harold Klemp, John Rogers, Michael Turner, Gary Olsen, plus others. That’s a whole lot of “Saints, Masters, and Gurus” the Lord done sent us common folks. Woo-hoo! And what have they really created and whom do they truly represent and what have they actually realized in consciousness?

A seeker should not be made to feel that doubt is opposition to knowing the spiritual within oneself …how can doubt be opposition to the very thing it protects? Doubt is the guardian of wisdom.

 

[end_of_faith]

So I should let a movie trailer determine for me what is truth and what is not, and not my own inner connection to God, is that it?

How many hours a year does Gary spend with his students? 3 (1 day) seminars during which he speaks for 3 one-hour meetings. In addition to the 9 hours a year of seminar talks, he may schedule a meeting. Total time is around 10 - 11 hours per year, but I’m feeling generous so let’s say the average student pays to see Gary speak for 12 hours (give or take) per year. Granted, a bit more than a movie trailer but not much considering the lifelong commitment.

It is interesting that you laud your “own inner connection to God” in determining what is truth and what is not. But oddly enough the “new person” must be guided (apparently by you) through 52 pages of an open forum because you “realize they may not necessarily know what to believe” since (in your view) criticism of MP “feeds upon their fear.” Obviously, in your mind, the new person has no “inner connection to God” to rely upon to determine what is truth and what is not.

Or, is it that you believe they have no connection to God *until* they receive initiation from your “master?” Since you are so deeply connected to God, why do you need Gary? To tell you that your connection through his inner form is “the” connection to God? It’s rhetorical.

You have expressed in several different ways how no one on this thread “knows your experience” [the profound],” and yet, you deny the same consideration with others, particularly detractors and new seekers. Perhaps you should ask yourself why it is important to you that others “know your experience.”

The movie “The Master” is about power and paranoia, domination and submission, and free will and predestination. It ultimately asks the question: “Is it possible to live without some kind of master in our lives?”

... If you didn't like Gary or his teachings, that is certainly your right, but what gives you the right to disrespect others? (You use the immature argument that, because you believe it, it must be true, and stating the truth is not disrespectful.) You are in the vast MINORITY of chelas, even among chelas that have since left the MasterPath

And you use the argument that because you believe it, it must be true. Though I am fairly certain that you do not view your response (or position) as “immature.”

... In fact, I recently met YET ANOTHER ex-chela who left MasterPath after 15 devoted years. She still thinks Gary is the sat guru, she no longer pays her dues, and, she said when she sent a letter to the office announcing she would leave they agreed with her decision and wished her well! This is in direct contrast to some of the claims I've read in this thread. I don't know why I would be inclined to believe your claims if your only goal is to discredit a man, a man who himself says every single talk that he's not the TRUE master (the inner master).

Well, ‘color me happy!’ It is wonderful to hear that a 15-year student leaving MP receives a letter wishing her well. I’m falling to my knees “repenting”…your “50 word announcement” (a lot less than a movie trailer, but who’s counting) convinces me that Gary is a sat guru. Not! That single act changes nothing. Your pontificating of what people should know to believe or not believe, whether the belief is conscious or unconscious, fear based, spiritually mature or respectful, etc., is presumptuous.

I see Gary as a chameleon, changing colors to serve his personal need. I think it is wonderful that he has learned (through reading these threads) to wish people well. Seems (unfaked) kindness is something he should have realized 30 years ago. The fact that his staff sent a perfunctory response from “the master” means nothing to me. Unfortunately, all I hear & see is the tinny sound of empty words from a pseudo guru.

A placebo? And yet no one on this forum that has spoken against the master knows what I experience in my spiritual journey. I'm not simply feeling "better", I'm experiencing something I've never experienced before. Something completely different, in another plane of existence. It can't be faked, and it wasn't happening before I met Gary. Gary exposed me to the true teachings, and in following them I have experienced a profound awaking in consciousness. Things happen inside that never happened before, and are completely unmistakable with previous experiences. And yet, someone in this very thread came on and agreed with my experiences after having studied with a master in India! Similar results, different master. I notice very little was said about that. I suppose it's convenient for some to ignore some of the evidence if it doesn't support one's hypothesis.

Thousands upon thousands of people express similar results. Scientologists, Eckists, RSSB, Christians, etc., gee, you might find some folks from the movie “Kumare” expressing a similar “awaking in consciousness.”

Many things have been written in this thread about which very little is said, the least of which is a “convenient ignoring.”

You claim we won't study anything of import. Let's look at some recurring themes in his teachings, shall we?
- Gary repeats often that being a true human being includes treating others of all races and creeds with due respect.
- Gary stresses that it's NOT ok to bash other paths, interfere with other people's paths, or call others limited simply because they do not believe the same things as you do.
- Gary teaches that the true master is within, and that our own effort must be applied along with the grace of the inner master in order to achieve results.
- Gary teaches we should treat others fairly, and to not dwell on negative emotions like anger or greed.

That was just a small sample of recurring themes in his teachings. I suppose you consider these to be of no import?

Though your post is addressed to SK…personally, I am no longer swayed or swooned by anything Gary says. The bell can’t be un-rung.

This is an open forum, so please feel free to say what you want. But please also be respectful. It seems anti-Gary folks think it's OK to bash the thousands of chelas that have experienced profound changes from studying light and sound and have no issue with Gary. Because that's what you're doing: calling them all deluded, while you and a small handful of other unhappy ex-chelas should be seen as the authority on the matter. I don't know how that passes the common sense test. I'll say it again, if MasterPath doesn't speak to you, stay far away. I have no problem exposing your faulty arguments in a public forum, however, and will continue to do so

You’re really hung up on “deluded.” It is fascinating that you project indignation at the thought of being viewed or called “deluded”, yet you express zero qualms in Gary telling someone she is deluded if she is NOT on the MasterPath. Your supporting rationale is that the person misunderstood his “spiritual” meaning. The kicker is: you clearly don’t “know the experience!” But wait, I forget….your point is: “no one on this thread knows [the profound nature of] your experience.”

With all due respect...thank you Vichar…for offering such clarity on “faulty arguments.” The surety of projection onto others what you have yet to realize within yourself is revelatory.

 

[Vichar]

There is no need to refute your posts, end_of_faith, because they refute themselves. They are not loving and are of a defensive vibration. That's what a true path is about: love. But you never really focus on that. You seem more interested in attacking me or attacking Gary the man than engaging in a real discussion about the spiritual principles. Why do I care to discuss karma? Because I want to uphold the truth. By employing sarcasm and not-so-subtle invective towards me, you discredit yourself. We've gone over this before, but you keep going on as if somehow if you repeat the sarcasm enough times you can convince yourself that you're on the true path and that thousands of chelas of MasterPath, especially me, are fooling ourselves.

Let me try again to be as clear as I can. You have every right to believe Gary is a fraud, or that there aren't any true masters at all. You may believe whatever you like. You should feel free to come state that here in this forum. But please don't use made up facts or hearsay. I'm simply trying to point out that there's a huge difference between stating what you believe personally in a neutral manner, and coming onto a public forum specifically to trash a path and its master, even if you used to be a student on that path. There is a huge amount of negative karma that is incurred when you trash another spiritual path, whether you believe it's a valid path or not.

Gary is very loving towards his chelas. If he's not understood by the superficial mind, is that the fault of the teacher or the teachings? Or is that impatience on the part of the student? You dismiss his claims about Godhood because you don't seem to have a clear notion about what the whole point of spirituality is. It's not to gain fancy powers to impress others. There's no official certificate to hold up to show others what you've achieved. God realized people don't really care about the opinions of the world at large because A) The world is perfectly designed to get the soul to want God eventually and B) most people don't want God and don't understand what the point of spirituality is. The whole objective of spirituality is Love. Only someone that wants to become more patient, more understanding, more loving towards others would want to find out more about Masterpath. Your attitude towards me suggests you care more about being "right" and being defensive than trying to change your attitudes. From the tone of your posts, it seems you don't often wonder if your current attitudes need self-examination.

(In contrast, I've been actively researching some of your claims about Masterpath. I have yet to uncover a single piece of condeming evidence to suggest Gary is doing anything shady or untoward.)

In fact, criticism about Gary seems to use convenient made up facts all the time. I've heard people say that Gary lives in a million dollar home, but in fact he lives in a house he rents. So what is the point of discussing this with you? You're just going to make up whatever you like and call it truth. The private jet? One of his CHELAS owns the jet. He didn't go out and spend the membership dues on a jet. One of the chelas wanted the master to fly in his jet, so he would never miss a seminar due to unreliable airlines again. I believe Gary does this because if he didn't, and missed a talk, he'd be letting down chelas that made plans to go see him. You can't just state something and conveniently leave out the complete facts. But you only care about your crusade to discredit the master, so inconvenient facts are not to be mentioned by you, are they?

Let's just cut to the chase. You didn't understand the teachings, you lashed out against the master, he called you on it, and your mind had a huge negative reaction. Frankly, I don't believe you understand even now the context of your alleged discussion with Gary. No other ex-chela I've ever asked reported anything even remotely close to your experience. I've already explained how it's all over the teachings and Gary's talks that:

He's not the only sat guru. He says this over and over again. So that's one point you clearly misunderstood. Yes, it's fact, we can go to the recordings of his talks and discourses where he discusses Radhasoami and other true masters. There's no real discussion here. You simply don't understand that Gary doesn't think MasterPath is the only true light and sound path. Why? Because you don't want to understand--it would mean you were wrong.

Rather than consider you might have been wrong, or that you might yet have something to learn about spirituality, now suddenly the man you used to think was a spiritual guru is now a fraud, out to cheat people out of money and has NOTHING useful to say (according to you and SK). Can you see the complete 180 your mind just did? If that's the case, why did you stay with the path even as long as you did? How do you go from thinking he's a real guru, studying with him for years, and now suddenly you spend all this effort trying to convince strangers that he's a bad person? Do you even stop to think about whether what you're thinking and writing makes any sense?

Another thing. Why am I spending all this time and energy to post this? If I didn't really believe what I was writing, why would I try to correct these misconceptions? I'm trying to uphold the truth, as I said earlier. You will note I'm not attacking you, but just pointing out inconsistencies in what you've written. There's no real way to counter my factual descriptions. You keep denying that what you've written in several forums is mean-spirited (and sometimes downright nasty), so I quoted you--called you on it. Then instead of having the grace to admit maybe you've been out of line, you pretend as if my one quote was the only example. I could quote dozens of posts from multiple forums of you being just plain mean and rude to different people. How can you be so unaware of your own attitudes and behavior? Do you think being nasty to people is spiritual?

Finally, you don't seem interested in a real discussion about spiritual principles, which is that main point here. You quoted my section about the teachings, which should be the real discussion, and you dismissed it with your comment about how the bell can't be "un-rung". If you actually understood the real teachings, you would NEVER take such an attitude towards me. You wouldn't dare express such flippancy towards ANY other soul, much less someone who was trying to help you.

Just a quick note regarding results. I have examined the claims about the results from other paths, and no, they don't claim the same things I've experienced. Other paths claim all sorts of things about "talking to god" or the magic tricks they can perform to impress their friends. I know the path is working for me because I'm more patient with others. I'm more understanding about what they're going through and therefore less judgmental. That's how I know it's working; I hardly recognize the person I was ten years ago. A true path changes YOU. You are the subject of the path, you ARE the true path. A true path asks that you put what you learn into practice. So a true path would teach one to have others' best SPIRITUAL interests at heart. That's why I even bother reponding to your attacks, end_of_faith. A true path asks that the student PRACTICES what they are taught. It changes one from the inside out; the behavior is simply an outer reflection. A true student doesn't have to try to be loving--as they come to understand the truth, it just happens. They see others as part of themselves, part of the whole, instead of enemies to be insulted.

 

[Vichar]

You’re really hung up on “deluded.” It is fascinating that you project indignation at the thought of being viewed or called “deluded”, yet you express zero qualms in Gary telling someone she is deluded if she is NOT on the MasterPath. Your supporting rationale is that the person misunderstood his “spiritual” meaning. The kicker is: you clearly don’t “know the experience!” But wait, I forget….your point is: “no one on this thread knows [the profound nature of] your experience.”

You really should read more carefully. I have stated several times that another poster in this thread, by the name of Nakosis (page 47 of this thread), has confirmed some of my experience independently from me. He studied with a guru from India, and now he's experiencing (some) phenomena similar to things I've experienced. So actually, at least one other person on this thread knows what I'm talking about. It's clear you're not interested in gleaning any content that might be of spiritual value to you from my posts. It seems you're just scanning it for anything you can twist into a counter-argument or an outlet for negative emotion, directed at me. Might I remind you that I'm a complete stranger, I've not attacked you as a person, and my only "crime" is to call you out on inconsistencies in the things you've written about Gary? What have I written to inspire such venom in your replies?

The real tragedy of your posts, eof, is that you still don't understand that Gary wanted (and still wants) only the best for you. If you were truly correct about Gary, why are you still so clearly upset about this incident to this day? If leaving has allowed you to find true spirituality, wouldn't you have achieved a level of peace and serenity that would allow you to confront any adversity with love and understanding? Instead of jumping down the throat of anyone even remotely supporting Gary (I can quote you repeatedly doing this in multiple forums), wouldn't you, instead, simply feel sorry for those of us that are "deluded"? Surely we would be victims if what you are saying were true. Instead, somehow we're enemies in your eyes. Doesn't that suggest to you that you've strayed a bit from where you should be, spiritually?

 

[Vichar]

Plagiarizing the writings of other paths does not mean the author has realized the teaching. Regurgitating principles codified by other teachings does not mean realization of the consciousness. Familiarity with a word does not mean the utterance of it is a living testament of the spirit behind it. A change in consciousness (profound in the believer’s mind) is not conclusive evidence that the teacher attributed with effecting the change is a sat guru.

Every single person that has criticized Gary uses this point. Do you know why the world at large thinks plagiarism is such a bad thing? It's because most people worship the brilliance of their own mind. They worship the mind instead of spirit or god. They believe that their mind, after coming up with an idea, suddenly has ownership. If only they knew that most of life's circumstances are pre-determined, yes by karma, before one is even born. Actually, several eastern traditions state this, not just light and sound. If a person will be wealthy, or tall, or short, or beautiful, it's all pre-determined. Yes, we have free will, but most of us follow our mind's dictates without question. It's practically like watching a movie. That's what a true path is for: to counteract the mind's habitual, robotic tendencies and reveal true spirit. You see, a true spiritual path is not there to confirm what you think you already know. What would be the point of such a path? A true path reveals your true self instead of reinforcing the lower, false self. You know, the false self that cares excessively about money and is so obsessed about it that they think spirituality should be free. Why should a master bother with a student if they can't demonstrate a modicum of detachment from their money? And we're talking about less money than subscription fees for internet access. Less money than most cable TV services. Less money than cell phone service (just voice, forget about data plans). My understanding is that past masters of the light and sound tradition asked for 10% of a chela's income.

Gary, on the other hand, believes that the true teachings are the birthright of all. He didn't have works of his own, so he copied works from Radha. Now you're going to ask why he charges for the works, then. Gary doesn't charge for the works, per se. The money is a mark of sincerity, a way for the chela to indicate that they are serious about the path, and that it's not going to be passing fancy for them that they can simply drop when they find out that a true path doesn't cater to the mind's pre-established notions. Gary knows that people are obsessed over money, and that they would never pay for something if they didn't truly want to at least consider putting some effort into it.

From a practical standpoint, he has to have some way to pay the staff that helps him organize things. If you'd been to the office or seen them working, nothing is wasted, everyone is very frugal, and everyone is very efficient. They have careful discussions about the best ways to do things and the best ways to save money. The dues used to be $25 a month. Now they are $30. Have you tracked inflation? Since the path started to now, things have gotten more than twice as expensive. Comparatively, the path is very careful about spending money gathered from dues. Furthermore, it's a non-profit org, and regardless of what your misundrestandings about a non-profit org might be, it's not a tax-shelter for religious organizations. It's all aboveboard, easily researched. A seeker can, if they are motivated, easily track down what Gary and his staff make each year in salary. They can't take any other form of profit.

 

[no-body]

For someone who claims to come from a belief preaching enlightenment and higher states you sure are spending a lot of time and energy being defensive. The truth doesn't need to be argued and defended (much less with pages and pages) it shines on its own.

 

[Vichar]

For someone who claims to come from a belief preaching enlightenment and higher states you sure are spending a lot of time and energy being defensive. The truth doesn't need to be argued and defended (much less with pages and pages) it shines on its own.

I'm not defending spiritual Truth, which seems to be what you're talking about. Spiritual truth can't even really be described with words--it must be experienced directly. Are you familiar with the Tao Te Ching? It says the same thing. Spiritual students know that the majority of the path is really about letting go of everything that is untrue, and sometimes there hardly seems to be a limit to that. All the works Gary has written? Just to point out a way to circumvent our mind's untruth and rendezvous with the inner master. After that point one doesn't even need an outer path.

I wrote a lot because a lot of untrue things have been said about gary and masterpath in this thread. You don't seem to have any problem with the length of those posts. And is a shorter statement more true? It might seem that way if we subscribe to the popular-culture belief that wisdom comes in short, poetic sound bytes. But I'm not attempting to appear wise here. I'm trying to clear up misunderstandings for new seekers because I would have appreciated that myself when I was first investigating masterpath. This isn't about whether the path will resonate with them or not; if they are ready, it will. Nothing anyone can post here can change that. My posting here is simply to provide a counter viewpoint to all the unsubstantiated claims regarding gary and masterpath.

While we're at it, let's look at your contribution to the discussion:

I'm into a lot of new age woo but even I can tell this is nothing but a scam from miles away.

"Not ready for the material" ? Please, if it was really the truth you would just be able to say it. Sounds like scientologies pyramid scheme reason for not releasing its material "you have to be made ready" what a bunch of bullocks.

See what I mean by "unsubstantiated"? Actually, again, spiritual truth can't be just "said". Words are just words. We give them meaning. If you've never tasted chocolate before, words can only attempt to compare it to other things you've tasted.

Come out and say it? Sure I'll do that. "No-body, to get back to god, all you have to do is let go of your mind, your current cherished notions, and concentrate your sensory currents on the ideal of the inner master. Keep doing this, and you will become enlightened." Will this work for you? Well, that depends on what the words mean to you, whether you believe them, and what you want for yourself.

I've got another simple example for you. Let's say you just finished learning arithmetic but hadn't taken algebra yet. Let's put calculus into the form of your statement and see how it goes:

"Not ready for the material? Bah, if Calculus were really the truth you would just be able to say it. Sounds like high school pyramid scheme reason for not releasing its material "you have to be made ready" what a bunch of bullocks."

See how silly that sounds? Spirituality is for everyone, everyone can become realized, but not everyone is willing to face the illusions of their mind in this lifetime. Heck, some people can't even take responsibility for their own actions yet. Look around you: most people blame things on everyone around them but fail to look at themselves for the source of their trouble. That's just the way things are--there's a natural process to go through, and everyone is on their own pace. I think some people just have bruised egos over the thought that THEY might not be ready. If that's the case, you should seek the path that speaks to you instead. Simple.

 

[no-body]

I'm not defending spiritual Truth, which seems to be what you're talking about. Spiritual truth can't even really be described with words--it must be experienced directly. Are you familiar with the Tao Te Ching? It says the same thing. Spiritual students know that the majority of the path is really about letting go of everything that is untrue, and sometimes there hardly seems to be a limit to that. All the works Gary has written? Just to point out a way to circumvent our mind's untruth and rendezvous with the inner master. After that point one doesn't even need an outer path.

I wrote a lot because a lot of untrue things have been said about gary and masterpath in this thread. You don't seem to have any problem with the length of those posts. And is a shorter statement more true? It might seem that way if we subscribe to the popular-culture belief that wisdom comes in short, poetic sound bytes. But I'm not attempting to appear wise here. I'm trying to clear up misunderstandings for new seekers because I would have appreciated that myself when I was first investigating masterpath. This isn't about whether the path will resonate with them or not; if they are ready, it will. Nothing anyone can post here can change that. My posting here is simply to provide a counter viewpoint to all the unsubstantiated claims regarding gary and masterpath.

While we're at it, let's look at your contribution to the discussion:



See what I mean by "unsubstantiated"? Actually, again, spiritual truth can't be just "said". Words are just words. We give them meaning. If you've never tasted chocolate before, words can only attempt to compare it to other things you've tasted.

Come out and say it? Sure I'll do that. "No-body, to get back to god, all you have to do is let go of your mind, your current cherished notions, and concentrate your sensory currents on the ideal of the inner master. Keep doing this, and you will become enlightened." Will this work for you? Well, that depends on what the words mean to you, whether you believe them, and what you want for yourself.

I've got another simple example for you. Let's say you just finished learning arithmetic but hadn't taken algebra yet. Let's put calculus into the form of your statement and see how it goes:

"Not ready for the material? Bah, if Calculus were really the truth you would just be able to say it. Sounds like high school pyramid scheme reason for not releasing its material "you have to be made ready" what a bunch of bullocks."

See how silly that sounds? Spirituality is for everyone, everyone can become realized, but not everyone is willing to face the illusions of their mind in this lifetime. Heck, some people can't even take responsibility for their own actions yet. Look around you: most people blame things on everyone around them but fail to look at themselves for the source of their trouble. That's just the way things are--there's a natural process to go through, and everyone is on their own pace. I think some people just have bruised egos over the thought that THEY might not be ready. If that's the case, you should seek the path that speaks to you instead. Simple.

Hey whatever works for you, but I think I'll stick with the spirituality that doesn't sound like a pitch for Amway.

 

[Vichar]

That's just it. I'm not suggesting anyone join masterpath. If you go back and read my posts, I never say that. I'm only saying the attacks on masterpath and Gary are bunk. Nobody is asking you to join up. I would prefer everyone pick the path that speaks to them most.

Um, by the way, what is Amway?

 

[Zeeker]

Um, by the way, what is Amway?

Amway is a pyramid sell business. Where those at the bottom do all the work, and those at the top get kickbacks off all their sales; go on tours travelling around the countryside, giving pep talks to keep everyone below motivated, to keep the cash flowing in.

Darth Vader was a former Jedi Knight, who realized his power over others, strayed onto the left-hand path, and fell to the Dark Side of the Force.

Darth Amway is the pseudonym for the dynamic duo of the “Magic Moustach” (we all know who that is?).

 

[season_of_change]

My point of view-
It may seem harmless, and for many the experience might be. I can tell you from my experience that engineering my mind so that I had pinpointed focus on a man that purports to be God's right hand man with an imaginary being living inside of me that has imaginary powers did significant psychological damage over time.

The unraveling of such an experience to a truly devout Masterpath Chela is devastating and heartbreaking. This reengineering is actually a brilliant mind game where the hypnosis or brainwashing is transferred from Gary to the student in a futile attempt on the student’s behalf to become more spiritual. Gary plants the seed, and in sincere desire, the student waters it more and more until the student actually does the brainwashing to himself for Gary through repeated chants, self-hypnosis, and self-discovery under the guise of “spiritual unfoldement.” This is the “becoming” aspect for those that have been on the path. It is actually a brilliant technique and through the tapes, lectures, and seminars Gary is able to refine the student’s seed watering technique to keep the student fully engaged in the self hypnotic process and “pinpointed” attention.

This kind of damage is hard to imagine when a person is not involved with, nor a party to such a spiritual endeavor. When you spend almost decade and a half, thinking you are further along on the spiritual ladder than most other people a few major things happen.
1.) He/she feels value and gratefulness in that experience: forgive the naïveté on my part here but when you actually believe that you have found the answers to life you really do feel special, right or wrong, you feel like you have something you can hold on to and that gives you security in life.
2.) He/she feels righteous in that experience and it changes the way you interact with people: at some level most individuals under this trance feel like they are better than others or at least more evolved, I did. As a result of this they develop an inability to have any meaningful or genuine relationships because according to the Masterpath doctrine, the only thing that matters is the Master and the Sound (e.g. Gary and his inner manifestations).
3.) He/she become deluded in the experience of life. I did and it was pathetic.

I get how someone could read this and say to themselves: How and why the heck would you ever buy that? well- I did. I was searching for something and I thought I found something. Please realize the insecurity and shame that I feel after leaving the cult is truly unbearable even after a few years, so no level of badmouthing or criticizing my decisions or life choices could ever compare with what I tell myself on a weekly basis.

This reengineered mind must be reverse engineered once a person leaves the path and this is where the heartache and devastation are truly felt and experienced for the ex-Chela, in my opinion. Making the choice to leave a cult is one thing but the process of healing is a mental and emotional journey like no other.

You see, I had no meaningful relationships outside the cult because all those people were manumucks (or in short, people less evolved than you), try making friends with someone after a cult- it is hard and who the hell wants to be friends with someone who has spent the last 13-14 years in a cult- seriously. All I want is to be close to people and have meaningful, honest relationships—but it is so hard to be honest about my experience because I am too ashamed about living in a cult. There is often incredible discomfort because you want people to know you, you want to reengineer your emotional state but it is so hard to be honest because of the shame. Again, just my experience here.

There is great comfort in isolation because the last thing I want to tell anyone is that I was stupid enough to be in a cult, and not just for a weekend, or a month but over a decade. The insecurity I feel after leaving the cult is overwhelming. It takes time to reverse engineer how I have trained my mind to think and act while I was in the “process of unfoldment”-which again was just me manipulating and hypnotizing myself to believe in a fantasy world that was transferred from Gary’s imagination to mine. I have spent years ignoring my “lower self” (e.g. my emotions) and now I have no idea how to handle them. During this undoing of immense mental and emotional damage I don’t get the opportunity to do it without moving on in life, so at the same time I am trying to move on, I also constantly see how I use to think and act, while at the same time trying to think and act differently. It is not easy.

Look, I was a willing participant to engage in this and I honestly blame no one but myself- I own my behavior and my choices. I am the one that gave my power over to another. If someone is interested in any doctrine that requires a spiritual leader, perhaps they should think about their thinking.

Maybe others have left Masterpath or other cults and walked away just fine, but I really thought it was true and real- so my experience may be different.

 

[Zeeker]

I get how someone could read this and say to themselves: How and why the heck would you ever buy that? well- I did.

Welcome S_of_C. I can relate to your experience; thank you for sharing.

Everyday people are unable to understand how one can become engrossed, and the inner tribulations that are involved in the process of systematically relinquishing yourself – your soul – to become “possessed”. You will only know that after having undertaken such an experience for yourself.

These supposed “gurus” know full well what is going on with their followers, how it is done and what they can expect. How trance states work. How “suggestions” - their suggestions, not your own - can become “real.” It isn’t rocket science once you know. If you’ve become “co-co-nutty” enough to get up at 3am every morning to “contemplate” on someone’s portrait and listen to their tapes of instruction over and over again, it’s only a mater of time and patience for results to surface. Assuredly, sooner-or-later, you will remember dreaming about Mr siri god man. Come to accept that they must have been guiding you through the higher realms and that they are responsible for those states of “eternal bliss.” That you can not progress further without them, and if you ever leave “bad” things will happen with all your spiritual gains being lost. To keep his privileged knowledge, divulged unto you, secret from anyone and everyone else ....lest you might be “woken up” and come to your senses. A true teacher will clearly point out that the experiencer is responsible for their experience, and that they were there only there to facilitate the process, to show you how to do it for yourself. No, these cult leaders take every opportunity to discredit your own abilities and bestow all acclamation and reverence onto them, and to keep you there for as long as you are willing. Willing to keep listen to their claptrap and undermine your own thinking. They are parasites who are out to take away your power; for you to remain disempowered, isolated and dependent on them.

I regained my self-preservation and freedom from inside such a space, by starting to listen to myself and become my own authority of my experiences. I stopped listening to someone else’s explanations; quite a formidable task if you have tapes playing over and over again, in your head, telling you otherwise all the way, I’m sure. Obtained external information to evaluate and consider to “sound out” the truth, My Truth, for myself. I listened to my doubts to assess their significance and look into further. I came to a point where I became confused, lost, unable to tell what was correct, who or what was right. A place of limbo I’d been in before, when I had started my ordeal, and recognized passing through on the way “In.” Gradually by doubts consolidated more and more and the fog started to lift and the “path,” the way out, became clearer. An analogy of an unborn chick relentlessly pecking at the shell encasement of engrained thoughts, with my doubts, in order to break out and be reborn, comes to mind. I came to the point where those doubts only spawned more confirmation of what had really happened, until I had firmly come back to the other side once again. I did learn many things from my experience; and, I also believe I can never be fooled again. :yoda:

 

[zizzer]

I had to come back to this thread today after being on the fringes of a friend who experienced an "initiation" this past weekend. It had me reevaluating the positive changes I've experienced in these past two years since being off the MASTERPATH. There are layers and layers of unfolding and rebirth after leaving such slavery. 3am contemplation indeed, that is laughable. I no longer feel quite as foolish for having been duped into letting someone tell me what to think and feel, or in such case as MP, not feel but for the uber master. The MP was not the only path I have been on, but it had the most brainwashing effect. I was ripe for the experience. I paid my way and I do not feel guilty about the past. Nor do I feel guilty about leaving. Nor do I feel guilty about venting and expressing myself on this thread. It was a necessary metamorphisis. I am glad this thread is still here and I will return to it for years to come. Because I will never(yes I said never) follow anothers' path again. Thank you E of F, thank you zeeker, thank you season of change. SC don't be to hard on yourself, change will come. Getting rid of all those books and tapes feels really good.
E of F, I see you are still at it with Vichar. I don't think he knows who he is dealing with....

 

[Vichar]

[/I]E of F, I see you are still at it with Vichar. I don't think he knows who he is dealing with....

Of course I know who I'm dealing with. E of F is soul just like I am. I love her as I love myself. Why else would I be willing to be patient through the attacks leveled at the spiritual path I happen to be on, as well as the written attacks directed at me personally?

Seriously, you need to get a clue zizzer. You have no idea that attacking ANY path is wrong, especially since the sum of the attacks in this thread, yours included, have been based on opinion. The fact that you don't see it that way is evidence for how far away from objective you've become in this matter.

 

[end_of_faith]

My point of view-
It may seem harmless, and for many the experience might be. I can tell you from my experience that engineering my mind so that I had pinpointed focus on a man that purports to be God's right hand man with an imaginary being living inside of me that has imaginary powers did significant psychological damage over time.

The unraveling of such an experience to a truly devout Masterpath Chela is devastating and heartbreaking. This reengineering is actually a brilliant mind game where the hypnosis or brainwashing is transferred from Gary to the student in a futile attempt on the student’s behalf to become more spiritual. Gary plants the seed, and in sincere desire, the student waters it more and more until the student actually does the brainwashing to himself for Gary through repeated chants, self-hypnosis, and self-discovery under the guise of “spiritual unfoldement.” This is the “becoming” aspect for those that have been on the path. It is actually a brilliant technique and through the tapes, lectures, and seminars Gary is able to refine the student’s seed watering technique to keep the student fully engaged in the self hypnotic process and “pinpointed” attention.

This kind of damage is hard to imagine when a person is not involved with, nor a party to such a spiritual endeavor. When you spend almost decade and a half, thinking you are further along on the spiritual ladder than most other people a few major things happen.
1.) He/she feels value and gratefulness in that experience: forgive the naïveté on my part here but when you actually believe that you have found the answers to life you really do feel special, right or wrong, you feel like you have something you can hold on to and that gives you security in life.
2.) He/she feels righteous in that experience and it changes the way you interact with people: at some level most individuals under this trance feel like they are better than others or at least more evolved, I did. As a result of this they develop an inability to have any meaningful or genuine relationships because according to the Masterpath doctrine, the only thing that matters is the Master and the Sound (e.g. Gary and his inner manifestations).
3.) He/she become deluded in the experience of life. I did and it was pathetic.

I get how someone could read this and say to themselves: How and why the heck would you ever buy that? well- I did. I was searching for something and I thought I found something. Please realize the insecurity and shame that I feel after leaving the cult is truly unbearable even after a few years, so no level of badmouthing or criticizing my decisions or life choices could ever compare with what I tell myself on a weekly basis.

This reengineered mind must be reverse engineered once a person leaves the path and this is where the heartache and devastation are truly felt and experienced for the ex-Chela, in my opinion. Making the choice to leave a cult is one thing but the process of healing is a mental and emotional journey like no other.

You see, I had no meaningful relationships outside the cult because all those people were manumucks (or in short, people less evolved than you), try making friends with someone after a cult- it is hard and who the hell wants to be friends with someone who has spent the last 13-14 years in a cult- seriously. All I want is to be close to people and have meaningful, honest relationships—but it is so hard to be honest about my experience because I am too ashamed about living in a cult. There is often incredible discomfort because you want people to know you, you want to reengineer your emotional state but it is so hard to be honest because of the shame. Again, just my experience here.

There is great comfort in isolation because the last thing I want to tell anyone is that I was stupid enough to be in a cult, and not just for a weekend, or a month but over a decade. The insecurity I feel after leaving the cult is overwhelming. It takes time to reverse engineer how I have trained my mind to think and act while I was in the “process of unfoldment”-which again was just me manipulating and hypnotizing myself to believe in a fantasy world that was transferred from Gary’s imagination to mine. I have spent years ignoring my “lower self” (e.g. my emotions) and now I have no idea how to handle them. During this undoing of immense mental and emotional damage I don’t get the opportunity to do it without moving on in life, so at the same time I am trying to move on, I also constantly see how I use to think and act, while at the same time trying to think and act differently. It is not easy.

Look, I was a willing participant to engage in this and I honestly blame no one but myself- I own my behavior and my choices. I am the one that gave my power over to another. If someone is interested in any doctrine that requires a spiritual leader, perhaps they should think about their thinking.

Maybe others have left Masterpath or other cults and walked away just fine, but I really thought it was true and real- so my experience may be different.

Hi SC,

Your post is very honest. It takes time to process the experience. If I could offer anything it would be to re-invest your trust in your own self. It was the simple things that helped me the most. You will make new friends that will not judge your past. Friends that will help you see life in a new light and levity. But I understand the difficulty in re-assimilating in the world, and it is at that time that you realize just how isolating the "path" was.

I also agree with your 3 major points of what happens to a person, and would add a 4th: they also become very judgmental in ways they do not recognize.

You are not alone in your experience. There are many kind and good people who do understand and have been there. Unspeakable insight and knowing will come to you that will never dawn through the construct of dogma.

 

[zizzer]

This is my personal story..here on this thread. I've worked through my anger, both inner and outer directed. I have made more strides in self awareness and personal health concerns in these past years since being off the path that I did for the 12 years on the path. MP is an outer directed path, affected by Gary and his minions. It has been my journey. I can only spek for myself.

I do seriously care about others in my community and my family, and I work to make things better in the world. I like living on this plane, in this world, in this life. I have found the practices of MP delusional to the point of affecting one's mental health. If there is anyone out there who is questioning this path, please reach out(outside the path) and get help.

 

[Vichar]

1.) He/she feels value and gratefulness in that experience: forgive the naïveté on my part here but when you actually believe that you have found the answers to life you really do feel special, right or wrong, you feel like you have something you can hold on to and that gives you security in life.
2.) He/she feels righteous in that experience and it changes the way you interact with people: at some level most individuals under this trance feel like they are better than others or at least more evolved, I did. As a result of this they develop an inability to have any meaningful or genuine relationships because according to the Masterpath doctrine, the only thing that matters is the Master and the Sound (e.g. Gary and his inner manifestations).
3.) He/she become deluded in the experience of life. I did and it was pathetic.

Hi Season of Change. From your post, I believe you are absolutely correct. Your decision to leave masterpath was the right decision for you.

Will it be possible for me to add something without 3 or 4 posters jumping all over me or doubting my word? I understand where you are coming from, and the way you relate your experiences strikes me as true. However, I do not experience what you have written. I do not feel superior to anybody. If anything, I feel closer to them. (Perhaps I should learn to step back a bit and let people have their experiences. They can only be helped by learning from them.)

Am I deluded in the experience of life? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but I am able to faithfully complete my job, I care about what happens in the physical world around me, I maintain myself and my house as best I can. Am I perfect? Far from it, at least as far as human beings would judge perfect. I make mistakes, I get things wrong, I sometimes hurt other people's feelings without realizing it. When I do realize it, I try my best to make it right.

I don't see in the teachings any free license to either shirk responsibility or treat others poorly. I believe the mind tries to do that at every turn, and if the mind of a chela is stronger than their love of the truth, then what you report is absolutely going to be their experience. Not every chela is going to be able to realize the teachings in their life. That takes dedication, discipline, and a love for god that's greater than their current concept of themselves.

The teachings are all about taking responsibility, facing things that one would rather not think about (within oneself, bad habits, mechanical behavior), and starting to see others as brothers and sisters (how brothers and sisters should be). If you got anything else from the teachings, then I would humbly suggest that you might not have understood them fully.

There is nothing that resembles dogma in the teachings. They are written in English, yes, and they convey a message, yes. But the message is not understood by just reading the words alone.

 

[end_of_faith]

We've gone over this before, but you keep going on as if somehow if you repeat the sarcasm enough times you can convince yourself that you're on the true path and that thousands of chelas of MasterPath, especially me, are fooling ourselves.

I do not see you or anyone following MP any differently than a follower of Eckankar, MSIA, SOS, or Scientology. And the odds of me ever becoming a member of any organization claiming to be a roadmap of “the true path” is slim to none. There is a difference between fooling yourself and being a fool. I’ve lived and been both.

You have every right to believe Gary is a fraud, or that there aren't any true masters at all. You may believe whatever you like. You should feel free to come state that here in this forum. But please don't use made up facts or hearsay....There is a huge amount of negative karma that is incurred when you trash another spiritual path, whether you believe it's a valid path or not.

What I share is not based on “made up facts or hearsay,” but your awareness is.

I view any religion (or “spiritual path”) that uses fear and retribution as a means of control as nothing more than a manipulation of energy, and an abuse of devotion.
I do not see it as the “absolute word” or “Love” of God in action.

Questions and critical analysis of a belief system, its genesis and origin, and the veracity of men claiming to be the “Word made Flesh,” are not “incurring of negative karma.” It seems (to me) that “God” would encourage scrutiny of men selling faith as Its Nam in this “world of illusion.” Instead, scrutiny is obfuscated with axioms of “this is truth, that is not” by self-appointed gurus assuming they are “the finger” pointing to the moon.

Gary is very loving towards his chelas. If he's not understood by the superficial mind, is that the fault of the teacher or the teachings? You dismiss his claims about Godhood because you don't seem to have a clear notion about what the whole point of spirituality is. God realized people don't really care about the opinions of the world at large ...

Dismiss his claims about Godhood? Oh contraire, contempt for poseurs claiming to be gurus and saints goes much deeper than superficial dismissal.

Since the “God realized people don’t really care about the opinions of the world at large”, then, why the unbridled zeal with declaring “bunk” on the experience of those who don’t believe your master is “God realized?”

In fact, criticism about Gary seems to use convenient made up facts all the time. I've heard people say that Gary lives in a million dollar home, but in fact he lives in a house he rents....The private jet? One of his CHELAS owns the jet. One of the chelas wanted the master to fly in his jet, so he would never miss a seminar due to unreliable airlines again....You can't just state something and conveniently leave out the complete facts.

The house Gary rents is owned by Sky View Corporation (or MasterPath). Though the home was originally purchased for 135 or 140k, an easy million has been invested in improvements and maintenance. Including a privacy barrier of 150 (~) olive trees (funded by a 450k donation), an extensive manmade berm, hundreds of water bubbles and water lines running throughout the property, a second well, workout room, dry sauna, green lawn, 3 mature palm trees at 10 k each, new furniture, a Guest house on 5 acres (80k), yearly maintenance (as of 2006) for the property that “Gary rents from MP” averaged around 80k yearly. So, even though he does not live in a “million dollar home”…he lives on a property (financed by MP) that has easily reached (if not exceeded) a “million dollars” in expense.

Regarding the private jet: it is a question of what came first – the chicken or the egg? Since I knew the “chicken” before you knew anything about the “egg” ….the chicken wanted to fly in a private jet long before the egg donated the means.

Yes, Vichar, a chela took flying lessons, purchased a Cessna (propeller) plane, and assumed all financial expenses. It was his donation to Masterpath so that your master and his wife could travel to and from meetings. The chela sold the Cessna and purchased a sleeker, faster Jet. He died in a plane crash one week after flying your master and his father to a chiropractor appointment. Upon that chela’s death, his wife pledged a yearly $50k cash donation to MP so that your master could continue flying in a privately chartered jet (approx. 10k per flight). One of those flights included a byway to drop off his Dad in MN (additional $k above the $10k). Since you use present tense in reference to the chela and his plane, are we to conclude there is another student now donating a private jet for Gary’s flights? Is the widowed chela still donating $50k yearly? If so, what is that tax-free charitable contribution funding?

Rather than consider you might have been wrong, or that you might yet have something to learn about spirituality, now suddenly the man you used to think was a spiritual guru is now a fraud, out to cheat people out of money and has NOTHING useful to say (according to you and SK). Can you see the complete 180 your mind just did? ... and now suddenly you spend all this effort trying to convince strangers that he's a bad person?

No, Vichar, I don’t mind being wrong. But in the spirit of reciprocation, here’s a question to ask your master: please list (by name) all the “sat gurus” in the world.

Yes, I am keenly aware of the 180. Depending on experience, perception and awareness, it can be seen as a 360. From my perspective, it is the other half of a full circle.
From yours, it’s a 180. I’m okay with that.

I’m not “spending [any] effort” to convince strangers of anything. I also don’t think Gary is a “bad person.” I just do not believe he is authentic or kind, or a saint or guru. That’s all.

Another thing. Why am I spending all this time and energy to post this? If I didn't really believe what I was writing, why would I try to correct these misconceptions? I'm trying to uphold the truth, as I said earlier. You will note I'm not attacking you, but just pointing out inconsistencies in what you've written.

You should focus on penetrating the inconsistencies with the “true path” you are following rather than the “inconsistencies” of the “superficial mind that doesn’t understand what spirituality is about.” Seems that would be a more fruitful endeavor in your quest for enlightenment.

If you actually understood the real teachings, you would NEVER take such an attitude towards me. You wouldn't dare express such flippancy towards ANY other soul, much less someone who was trying to help you.

I responded with exactly what I meant. Your charge of how “dare [me] express such flippancy” to you is funny. Who are you? God? I do not view MasterPath as the “real teachings” or Gary as the “real deal.” That is neither flippant nor negative. It simply is what it is. What part don’t you understand?

Just a quick note regarding results. I have examined the claims about the results from other paths, and no, they don't claim the same things I've experienced.

The second line says it all.

Vichar, if your “why you bother responding” is (in your mind) because you have my “best SPIRITUAL interests at heart” …well… you mistake me for someone who cares whether you “bother responding.”

 

[end_of_faith]

You really should read more carefully. I have stated several times that another poster in this thread, by the name of Nakosis (page 47 of this thread), has confirmed some of my experience independently from me. He studied with a guru from India, and now he's experiencing (some) phenomena similar to things I've experienced. So actually, at least one other person on this thread knows what I'm talking about. It's clear you're not interested in gleaning any content that might be of spiritual value to you from my posts. It seems you're just scanning it for anything you can twist into a counter-argument or an outlet for negative emotion, directed at me. Might I remind you that I'm a complete stranger, I've not attacked you as a person, and my only "crime" is to call you out on inconsistencies in the things you've written about Gary? What have I written to inspire such venom in your replies?

If only you knew how carefully your posts are read. I thought you would be more perceptive, but your reactive mind continues to reveal otherwise. Heck, I even read your deleted post to No-body about the complexity in new people un-learning all they think is true in order to re-learn what MP teaches as “the truth.” Yes, that is a poor paraphrasing of your words, but it captures the gist of your message.

Regarding your 2nd to last line in the above paragraph: “Might I remind you that I’m a complete stranger.” As I am to you…yet, it doesn’t seem to stop you from attempting to define my (or others) experience. The pomposity in demanding consideration for your self while denying the same in others is a remarkable display of cognitive dissonance. And dare I say, is a perfect reflection in tribute to your master. There is neither sarcasm nor venom in that response. It simply describes what I perceive and experience through reading your posts.

The real tragedy of your posts, eof, is that you still don't understand that Gary wanted (and still wants) only the best for you. If you were truly correct about Gary, why are you still so clearly upset about this incident to this day? If leaving has allowed you to find true spirituality, wouldn't you have achieved a level of peace and serenity that would allow you to confront any adversity with love and understanding? Instead of jumping down the throat of anyone even remotely supporting Gary (I can quote you repeatedly doing this in multiple forums), wouldn't you, instead, simply feel sorry for those of us that are "deluded"? Surely we would be victims if what you are saying were true. Instead, somehow we're enemies in your eyes. Doesn't that suggest to you that you've strayed a bit from where you should be, spiritually?

Vichar, let me be as clear as possible with you. I no longer trust or believe anything Gary Olsen (or anyone representing Masterpath) says. I do not believe he is a Saint, Guru, or Master. Nothing you say or write will change that “Truth” for me. It’s that simple. If, in your view, that conclusion means I’ve “strayed from where I should be spiritually”… so be it.

I am very grateful that I am no longer required to expend untold energy and devotion trying to make spiritual sense out of nonsense.

Last, I do not view you as a victim or enemy. I see you as someone idealizing the mind of a man believing it is the divine essence of God. That is not an insult or an attack. It simply means what it says. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[end_of_faith]

Every single person that has criticized Gary uses this point. Do you know why the world at large thinks plagiarism is such a bad thing? It's because most people worship the brilliance of their own mind. They worship the mind instead of spirit or god. They believe that their mind, after coming up with an idea, suddenly has ownership. If only they knew that most of life's circumstances are pre-determined, yes by karma, before one is even born. Actually, several eastern traditions state this, not just light and sound. If a person will be wealthy, or tall, or short, or beautiful, it's all pre-determined. Yes, we have free will, but most of us follow our mind's dictates without question. It's practically like watching a movie. That's what a true path is for: to counteract the mind's habitual, robotic tendencies and reveal true spirit. You see, a true spiritual path is not there to confirm what you think you already know. What would be the point of such a path? A true path reveals your true self instead of reinforcing the lower, false self. You know, the false self that cares excessively about money and is so obsessed about it that they think spirituality should be free. Why should a master bother with a student if they can't demonstrate a modicum of detachment from their money? And we're talking about less money than subscription fees for internet access. Less money than most cable TV services. Less money than cell phone service (just voice, forget about data plans). My understanding is that past masters of the light and sound tradition asked for 10% of a chela's income.

Gary, on the other hand, believes that the true teachings are the birthright of all. He didn't have works of his own, so he copied works from Radha. Now you're going to ask why he charges for the works, then. Gary doesn't charge for the works, per se. The money is a mark of sincerity, a way for the chela to indicate that they are serious about the path, and that it's not going to be passing fancy for them that they can simply drop when they find out that a true path doesn't cater to the mind's pre-established notions. Gary knows that people are obsessed over money, and that they would never pay for something if they didn't truly want to at least consider putting some effort into it.

From a practical standpoint, he has to have some way to pay the staff that helps him organize things. If you'd been to the office or seen them working, nothing is wasted, everyone is very frugal, and everyone is very efficient. They have careful discussions about the best ways to do things and the best ways to save money. The dues used to be $25 a month. Now they are $30. Have you tracked inflation? Since the path started to now, things have gotten more than twice as expensive. Comparatively, the path is very careful about spending money gathered from dues. Furthermore, it's a non-profit org, and regardless of what your misundrestandings about a non-profit org might be, it's not a tax-shelter for religious organizations. It's all aboveboard, easily researched. A seeker can, if they are motivated, easily track down what Gary and his staff make each year in salary. They can't take any other form of profit.

A friend recently wrote these simple words: “it is both amazing and depressing how much justification goes on in the name of Gary and Masterpath.”

Regarding Gary’s salary. What appears on paper and what happens in practice are worlds apart.

The fact is that the “income” Gary receives includes benefits not found in an “easy to research” yearly salary. Gary’s mantra to his staff was simple: find a way to pay for what “the master” wants. Thus, all utilities, phones, car insurance & registration, household items, gas, maintenance, home repairs and improvements, Tempurpedic bed and pillows (as in a pillow for every place his wife might sleep), $8h ionizers (again, one for every place she might travel, at last count, 18 (~?) had been purchased), coffee, toilet paper, paper towels, Cokes, apple juice, flaxseed, licorice, cashews, shavers, shampoo, laundry soap, cleaning supplies, etc. provided and paid (somehow, someway) by MP. Additionally, he receives health, dental, medical reimbursement, and full retirement, and as of 2006, he was reviewing how to provide him and his wife with lifetime salaries.

He spends a 3 – 4 month yearly vacation in Minnesota with his secretary. All expenses paid including a daily hotel & food per Diem issued to each of them. 2 vehicles, a pontoon, jet skis, a Jacuzzi, a lakeside cabin rental, electric chair ramp installed for the stairs of his father’s home (to accommodate his brother with a bad back), cable TV, phones, etc. In addition to receiving 10’s of thousands $ per Diem, both him and his traveling companion continue to receive their full monthly salary (the one that is so easy to research), and on top of all the above, all living expenses for his permanent residence completely funded by MP. Essentially making his “easy to research salary” entirely discretionary $$$.

While we understand that a non-profit is not intended to be a “tax-shelter for religious organizations,” it is rather easy to see that the non-profit status of a religious organization provides shelter from paying taxes. Any benefit (creatively written off as an MP expense) that your master receives is tax-free. It is also a form of income regardless how it is “legally” justified as a “practical” operating expense for the “religious” organization.

His salary has been compared to that of a schoolteacher. His total compensation does not remotely compare to the average yearly salary of a schoolteacher. I don’t know any schoolteachers who fly in private jets, or can afford to pay 80k a year in property maintenance, plus a winter vacation in the South Pacific, 3 to 4 months in Minnesota in the summer, and that only show up in class for 9 – 12 hours a year. But that’s just me.

While none of the above may be illegal…is it spiritually ethical? If it is both legal and ethical, and all so “aboveboard,” then, why not fully disclose all benefits Gary and his wife have and do receive? But it doesn't really matter to me personally, as true to my moniker, I have zero faith in anything Gary or his staff say or do.

Finally, regarding the plagiarism and subsequent justification for that and more. Vichar, having read your post many times … priceless.

To think there are “spiritual” teachers (they call themselves masters) teaching followers that the reason people view plagiarism (a form of cheating and deception) as “bad” is because they are “just worshipping the brilliance of their own mind” rather than “spirit or God.” What an incredible example of the type of reasoning that forms the “true teachings” of MP. Gee, I wonder if you ever think about the karma you are incurring in pawning tripe as truth.

So, Vichar, no, I have no desire to “focus” on the “true path” according to Gary, MP, … or you. But I wish you well in your journey. Where I am, is where I want to be: free of the dogma, doctrine, and discipline in upholding the false.

That is my truth. Can you “uphold” it, Vichar? After all, your message in this thread is that you are here to “uphold the truth”… sorry, that should read “the Truth.”
The answer is already known since it’s been so masterly demonstrated and enumerated in your communications. The blind that refuses to see … is you.

I hope you are so blessed to one day re-read what you have written and hang your head in utter disbelief at your own thinking. And “realize” that the message you are “upholding,” as though it is a divine edict straight from God, is nothing more than absurd. The fact that you think it’s “spiritual” to influence people with such twisted logic says a lot about the path you are following.

And the path you follow is best summed up in your own words: “Why should a master bother with a student if they can't demonstrate a modicum of detachment from their money?” A priceless jewel of understanding about the teachings of MP.

Last, I am not “picking and choosing” a singular line…it’s more a where-do-you-start kind of experience for me…. there’s so many to choose from. If you are offended or insulted by these words, know that it’s yours.

Oh...I sometimes wonder when you will realize that our discussion ends when you stop responding (I have no desire to give attention or energy to you or MP). Also, your retort to Zizzer was anything but "loving."