Masturbation

[Jeremiah]

Our you could always do what Bible suggest and cut your penis off.

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

 

[blackout]

It’s more like rejection.

Please understand that we are deeply connected to our religious faith, and to our God. And we believe that God has set up the marriage relationship in such a way that there no sexual gratification outside of that union is needed – that all sexual needs, desires, and fantasies should be, and can be fulfilled in marriage. So, masturbation and pornography are grave violations of that sacred trust.

I’m only saying this to provide a little insight as to the why she gets upset when I look at pornography or masturbate. They are outright violations of our wedding vows, and our most deeply-held beliefs about marriage, sex, and lust.

What if you masterbated together?

That can be very hawt,
mix up the foreplay a bit,
and fits your idea/l of sexual gratification within your marriage.

 

[Strength & Honor]

Marriage is a very serious step (or it is supposed to, anyway) and quite often it is best if people are confortable and at least a bit experienced with their own sexuality before taking it. It can be very ugly if people only find out some important detail of same after establishing life plans with someone else that they care about, after all.

Well, you can always talk about it. Open communication about expectations, desires, fantasies, etc., in combination with some education, can be healthy and beneficial, and help in preparation (it did with my wife and me, at least). Besides, even if neither partner has any experience sexually, it is not impossible to safely discover that wonderful part of their relationship together - and I can’t think of many things more fun to practice at. No expectations, no predetermined notions – just exploring each other, yourself, and helping each other achieve a higher level of physical pleasure.

Frankly, I find it ridiculous that that two people who love, respect, and truly want what’s best for each other, could not find a way to work out a sexual relationship.

I have a bit of a problem understanding what you mean exactly here. For one thing, sex is a part of everyone's body and mind, so access to it can't really be given except by birth, I guess. For that matter, it can't really be taken away in any non-criminal way, unless I am misunderstanding your meaning.

I’m simply referring to the bible’s guidelines for sex. Obviously, if we want to have sex, we will, and no one can physically restrain us under normal circumstances. I was speaking hypothetically about God removing any spiritual consequences to our misuse of sex as He has outlined them in the bible.

the real countermeasure to the possibility of abuse is always developing wisdom. And such can't really be had with prohibitions, much less with fear.

Who is afraid?

True enough, although I wonder what exactly you understand by self-control. Being responsible and being afraid of losing control are not quite the same thing.

I agree. To me, self-control is about responsibly handling the word of God. According to my beliefs, each person will be held accountable for their own actions and the decisions they make. So, each of us has an individual responsibility to do what is right. But again, I have to ask, who is afraid?

It bothers me quite a lot to think that a healthy couple - a married one at that - may be imposing undue guilt over themselves, personally speaking.

I respect the fact that, for you, it may seem inappropriate. But according to what we believe, the guilt we feel when we violate any of God’s commands is wholly befitting - not because we fear the punishment, but because we love our God and hate to sadden Him with our digression into sin as He has defined it. However, I understand that others have a different definition of what “sin” is, which I think is where the difference arises.

Not as many, actually. Fear itself is quite an aggravant, and I must agree with Bain-Druie in that it causes far more sexual trouble than it solves. I can offer an elaboration of why if you want me to.

Go ahead, if you’d like, though feel I understand exactly what you mean. However, I do not believe that a Christian who is doing right should have anything to fear. Ideally, fear should not motivate a Christian to do what a Christian does, but love.

You may have trouble believing it, but ultimately "non-believers" are not all that different from believers, and if they have enough sexual freedom and maturity they may (and usually do) avoid many of the pitfalls that beleague more conservative believers. It is not safe, but IMO it is definitely safer overall. Self-acceptance is healthy and leads to less mistakes, after all.

How do you define “self-acceptance” in this case?

I don't see any noteworthy relationship between it and pornography.

I do. Your experience is vastly different from mine. However, personally I often used to masturbate without pornography, I, and most of my friends with whom I’ve had this conversation, used pornography far more often than not.

 

[Strength & Honor]

Then how do you judge someone as a "sexual deviant"?

And that’s different than what Bain called them: “monsters?” I’m just using a different term. Besides, it wasn’t a personal judgment on anyone here, just expanding on an idea that someone else brought up.

Teens/young adults masturbate a lot; that is perfectly natural and there is nothing wrong with it.

On a social or physiological level, you’re right. However, my “battle” was with an outright addiction to pornography and masturbation from a very young age, which is not healthy. So, I hope you will understand why I am not exactly comfortable with either one.

it only becomes unhealthy when you turn it into a physiological mindspike, like you have.

My concern is not physiological, other than the danger and possibility of addiction as mentioned above. In fact, I haven’t disagreed with anyone here on a scientific or physiological level, because that is not the true nature of my objection.

The only thing unhealthy about masturbation here, is your perverted views on it.

What is perverted about fulfilling my sexual urges in my wife, and nowhere else? Ultimately it comes down to, “what can I do to please God?” If God wants me to exercise some self-control with respect to my own sexual urges, then that’s what I’ll do. I understand that differs from most people’s opinions or viewpoints, but I’m okay with that.
I am simply behaving in accordance with my own belief system, and I have forced that on no one here. But for some reason, people feel the need to attack it…

If you post on a public forum, like this, then you will be judged by other people. That is just the fact of the matter. If you don't want to be judged then don't post.

I have a problem with being personally judged for making an observation – especially when the judge doesn’t know the whole story, and especially when I don’t claim to be “holier than thou.”

Now that I think about, I have to wonder as to why you put this here. Could it be that you are ashamed of your views on masturbation? Perhaps, on some, level you understand that they are messed up.

I am perfectly at peace with my own views.

You known what the fact is? The fact is you have a penis, that means you will have sexual urges, you will have lust.

I do have sexual urges. But I reserve them for my wife to fulfill, and not myself. However, the act of lust itself is a separate issue to me. There is a difference, to me, between seeing a lustful image, and lusting after that image. As Swim aptly put it,

The causes of X are not X themselves.

That is something you have to live with, something you are going to have to accept. This fake guilt that you have manifested for yourself, or have let others push onto you, is an unnecessary negativity in your life. You are unnecessarily making your own life more miserable.

Thanks for your opinion on how to improve my life. I’m perfectly happy with where I am right now – living with my family in peace and serving God without a guilty conscience anymore.

Our you could always do what Bible suggest and cut your penis off.

I’ll gouge my eyes out and cut my hand off while I’m at it. Eliminate the problem on all fronts. For a someone who claims to be a minister, you say some very hurtful things.

 

[Strength & Honor]

What if you masterbated together?

That can be very hawt,
mix up the foreplay a bit,
and fits your idea/l of sexual gratification within your marriage.

I don’t see a problem with that, as long as both spouses agree to it.

 

[Jeremiah]

And that’s different than what Bain called them: “monsters?” I’m just using a different term. Besides, it wasn’t a personal judgment on anyone here, just expanding on an idea that someone else brought up.

On a social or physiological level, you’re right. However, my “battle” was with an outright addiction to pornography and masturbation from a very young age, which is not healthy. So, I hope you will understand why I am not exactly comfortable with either one.

My concern is not physiological, other than the danger and possibility of addiction as mentioned above. In fact, I haven’t disagreed with anyone here on a scientific or physiological level, because that is not the true nature of my objection.

What is perverted about fulfilling my sexual urges in my wife, and nowhere else? Ultimately it comes down to, “what can I do to please God?” If God wants me to exercise some self-control with respect to my own sexual urges, then that’s what I’ll do. I understand that differs from most people’s opinions or viewpoints, but I’m okay with that.
I am simply behaving in accordance with my own belief system, and I have forced that on no one here. But for some reason, people feel the need to attack it…

I have a problem with being personally judged for making an observation – especially when the judge doesn’t know the whole story, and especially when I don’t claim to be “holier than thou.”

I am perfectly at peace with my own views.

I do have sexual urges. But I reserve them for my wife to fulfill, and not myself. However, the act of lust itself is a separate issue to me. There is a difference, to me, between seeing a lustful image, and lusting after that image. As Swim aptly put it,

Thanks for your opinion on how to improve my life. I’m perfectly happy with where I am right now – living with my family in peace and serving God without a guilty conscience anymore.

I’ll gouge my eyes out and cut my hand off while I’m at it. Eliminate the problem on all fronts. For a someone who claims to be a minister, you say some very hurtful things.

"And that’s different than what Bain called them: “monsters?” I’m just using a different term. Besides, it wasn’t a personal judgment on anyone here, just expanding on an idea that someone else brought up."

What does that have to do with my question? I was talking to you, I was not talking to Bain-druie. " Besides, it wasn’t a personal judgment on anyone here", I didn't say it was.

Maybe you could stop trying to circumvent the question and just answer it.

How can you judge someone as a "sexual deviant" if you never judge people?

"On a social or physiological level, you’re right. However, my “battle” was with an outright addiction to pornography and masturbation from a very young age, which is not healthy. So, I hope you will understand why I am not exactly comfortable with either one."

You have such a messed views on masturbation; I doubt you could tell the difference between healthy sexual release and non-healthy.

"My concern is not physiological, other than the danger and possibility of addiction as mentioned above. In fact"

I am not talking about your concerns, at least not the way you think I am. I am talking about you being messed up in the head with these guilt ridden views on natural harmless and healthy sexual release.

"I have a problem with being personally judged for making an observation – especially when the judge doesn’t know the whole story, and especially when I don’t claim to be 'holier than thou.' "

Well, then perhaps web forums are not for you.

"I’ll gouge my eyes out and cut my hand off while I’m at it. Eliminate the problem on all fronts."

Well, if you think it is going to be a problem, that is what the Bible says.


" For a someone who claims to be a minister, you say some very hurtful things."

O, I am sorry, am I not living up to your exceptions?

 

[Strength & Honor]

How can you judge someone as a "sexual deviant" if you never judge people?

Is it a judgment to call a spade a spade? They are “deviants” in that their behavior deviates from the norms of acceptable sexual behavior. Even using society’s definition - and not even the bible’s - this includes rapists, abusive partners, child molesters, etc. I do not judge people in that I never tell people that they are “going to hell.” It’s not my place, and it is not appropriate.

You have such a messed views on masturbation; I doubt you could tell the difference between healthy sexual release and non-healthy.

Perhaps not as you define them. Though, I am not unreasonable. I understand what science has observed as the mental and physiological benefits of masturbation.

I am talking about you being messed up in the head with these guilt ridden views on natural harmless and healthy sexual release.

I apologize for feeling guilty over making my wife cry. I’ll try and look past that next time. Other than saying apologizing for our differing views, what else do you want me to do?

What is perverted about it? This obsession you seem to have with how you can please God sexually. Tell me are you thinking about God when you are having sex with your wife? Do you, at times, use your wife for sexual release simply to appease God?

I don’t think you quite understand. It’s not about using sex just to appease God. For me it’s about making sure that, when I have sex, God approves of it.

Well, then perhaps web forums are not for you.

Perhaps not. I thought I could come here for a civilized debate, but I guess that’s out of the question...

Well, if you think it is going to be a problem, that is what the Bible says.

O, I am sorry, am I not living up to your exceptions?

I guess I just expect decent people to act the part instead of using the anonymity of the internet as a reason to act nasty. It just seems like hypocrisy to me, that’s all. But carry on…

 

[Rakhel]

Huh?
wait...
what...
PLOTS?!?!
Pornos have plots?
When the hell did they start that?!

exactly

 

[Meow Mix]

exactly

I got a mental image of a small person who has to battle against time and terror to unmake the One ****ring: he must cast it into the loins of Crotch Doom

 

[Rakhel]

It wasn't a ****-ring it was a G-string
The Lord of the G-Strings: The Femaleship of the String (2003) (V)

 

[Meow Mix]

It wasn't a ****-ring it was a G-string
The Lord of the G-Strings: The Femaleship of the String (2003) (V)

....................i'm speechless with.. joy?

 

[Rakhel]

It was....very...anti-climatic(in more ways than one)

 

[Meow Mix]

After reading about it, I've decided I will actually endeavor to WATCH that. I'm not kidding. Haha. I'm a lesbian anyway, so I don't mind the girl on girl, but the plot looks awesome in that B-movie sense. Er, the humor anyway. Not so much plot.

Edit: Aw, you say it wasn't good? Boo.

 

[Rakhel]

Misty have a LOT of films like that one under her belt. mostly spoofs. there was one a while back spoofing The planet of the Apes.

 

[Meow Mix]

Misty have a LOT of films like that one under her belt. mostly spoofs. there was one a while back spoofing The planet of the Apes.

Get off me you dirty, stinking apes!

Don't think that one sounds really up my alley. I think, sans a few reeeally hawt alien women that are less hairy and very close to human in appearance, I will stick to my own species

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/f9/Aayla.jpg

C'mon. Assuming you have an interest in females... wouldn't you?

 

[Rakhel]

Assuming she could do something with those things coming out of her head, we might talk