Materialism in puja

[vistascan]

When I practiced Sanatana Dharma I had a strong dislike for murti or images of any kind. I found them to be a distraction and unnecessary, but perhaps this was because I was a previous Muslim before this. I just had no need for many of the demands for puja others had obviously

Then you're missing the entire point of murti puja, which is integral to Hinduism

 

[Sb1995]

When I practiced Sanatana Dharma I had a strong dislike for murti or images of any kind. I found them to be a distraction and unnecessary, but perhaps this was because I was a previous Muslim before this. I just had no need for many of the demands for puja others had obviously

Has your opinion changed or are you still like this? By any chance are you from Pakistan?

 

[Vinayaka]

If you feel you have to do something, then it becomes a mindless ritual and a source of stress and resentment. Just an observation.

I often feel that I HAVE to do something. I guess it's all become mindless ritual. Oh well. (Like I HAD to go to India, HAD to change my name, etc.)

 

[Vinayaka]

BTW, I think it is impossible to be a Hindu for 9 months, then leave. IMO, it is far more likely you never were a Hindu, experimented with Hinduism for 9 months, then moved on, or back to what you actually were or are.

 

[Poeticus]

BTW, I think it is impossible to be a Hindu for 9 months, then leave. IMO, it is far more likely you never were a Hindu, experimented with Hinduism for 9 months, then moved on, or back to what you actually were or are.

That's a good point.

 

[Jainarayan]

I often feel that I HAVE to do something. I guess it's all become mindless ritual. Oh well. (Like I HAD to go to India, HAD to change my name, etc.)

No, you wanted to, or if "had to" it was for you... big difference. Mindless ritual is when you do something(s) because others do it or say you have to, and/or you don't know why and/or can't get an answer. Like when I asked the weight room attendant at the YMCA years ago why my work boots, which were cleaner and safer than most people's athletic shoes, were not allowed and why I had to wear athletic shoes, and the answer was "w-w-well, it's always been that way".

 

[Vinayaka]

There are days when you just don't feel like doing stuff ... going to work, putting extra effort into a relationship, or in a priest's case, doing an inspired puja when he's sick, and it's an agamic temple, and the pujas must go on, much like the mail must be delivered. Everyone has those days when it feels like you HAVE to ... well, because you have to. There were days when I felt like quitting my job, but with 5 kids and a stay at home Mom there, it was dharma, whether I liked it or not. So in times like this, mature responsible people suck it up, and get the job done. Others fluff it off. Hey, I don't feel like doing the puja today, so I won't.

This is another difference between the east and west .... discipline and short term pain for long term gain (eastern view, working for a greater good for mankind) , or a more nonchalant attitude about it. (western, more individual freedom)

 

[Sha'irullah]

Has your opinion changed or are you still like this? By any chance are you from Pakistan?

My opinion has ALWAYS been like this and I am not from Pakistan . I am not even of Asian descent.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

Murti Puja is not idolatry.

 

[Sha'irullah]

BTW, I think it is impossible to be a Hindu for 9 months, then leave. IMO, it is far more likely you never were a Hindu, experimented with Hinduism for 9 months, then moved on, or back to what you actually were or are.

Little bit of an understatement. I was practicing for less then a year (roughly 9 months) and studied before that. I would honestly say I was not really getting into Hinduism for no less than that period.

But your accusation is no more different then when I left Islam and people stated that I was never a Muslim. I ask them to recite to me their 6 favorite surat and they cannot even remember 3 (2 of in which they use in salat). It all comes down to the nature of ego placed in one's own faith or system.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Then you're missing the entire point of murti puja, which is integral to Hinduism

So you are saying one cannot pray to the lord when he or she has no image of the deity?

You are also saying it is impossible to pray without flowers? It is also impossible to do japa without japa mala? Oh I am heavily misinformed here

 

[Kalidas]

There are days when you just don't feel like doing stuff ... going to work, putting extra effort into a relationship, or in a priest's case, doing an inspired puja when he's sick, and it's an agamic temple, and the pujas must go on, much like the mail must be delivered. Everyone has those days when it feels like you HAVE to ... well, because you have to. There were days when I felt like quitting my job, but with 5 kids and a stay at home Mom there, it was dharma, whether I liked it or not. So in times like this, mature responsible people suck it up, and get the job done. Others fluff it off. Hey, I don't feel like doing the puja today, so I won't.

This is another difference between the east and west .... discipline and short term pain for long term gain (eastern view, working for a greater good for mankind) , or a more nonchalant attitude about it. (western, more individual freedom)

I'm not sure you guys are entirely disagreeing. Yes there are things we HAVE to do because it is duty work, school, parenting, and even worship for believers. YET none of these things HAVE to be done for survival all you need for that is sleep, food, breathe, and water.

So this idea of need we are currently talking about is the need to do an action to maintain being a good person and because you have a duty.

 

[Sb1995]

So you are saying one cannot pray to the lord when he or she has no image of the deity?

Yea I believe that why? Is there a problem? This isn't Islam. Photos of the Lord are allowed.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yea I believe that why? Is there a problem? This isn't Islam. Photos of the Lord are allowed.

I am using sarcasm. I was asking if it possible to pray to god using an image because the poster said it is integral in puja that one prays with a murti.

You got my questions backwards

 

[Kalidas]

I'm not sure you guys are entirely disagreeing. Yes there are things we HAVE to do because it is duty work, school, parenting, and even worship for believers. YET none of these things HAVE to be done for survival all you need for that is sleep, food, breathe, and water.

So this idea of need we are currently talking about is the need to do an action to maintain being a good person and because you have a duty.

I forget my other part sorry. the "need" Jainarayan was talking about is "forced need" imposed by others. It's OTHER people telling YOU what YOUR duty is.

 

[Sb1995]

I am using sarcasm. I was asking if it possible to pray to god using an image because the poster said it is integral in puja that one prays with a murti.

You got my questions backwards

Why use sarcasm? This is religion, serious discussion. We don't play around.

 

[Kalidas]

I don't think a physical murti or image is 100% necessary, but I have no problem admitting I have issues focusing without it. I have a hard enough time quieting me brain down on a normal basis (as I type this now I am thinking of 15 other different things). So for me to try and think up an image of my deity in my head would not work (it would be weird one moment she would there next she would have tentacles arms and a monocle). I need an object to focus my thoughts on one central point and allow it to assist me in thinking of God. This is one of the reasons I could NEVER be a Muslim.

 

[Sha'irullah]

For the record, I was heavily influenced by Ram Mohan Roy, Vinayak Savarkar and the Arya Samaj movement.
These are nothing but Dharmic forms of Deism(hint hint) and when I did encounter Hindus for the first time the likeness of these individuals and movements were not very high so I was discouraged and became a plain old Deist hence my current state.

So my inability to understand the usage of murti and excessive desire for physical interactions for the non physical are placed primarily on Deistic philosophy of the past and not on my previous Islamic creed.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Why use sarcasm? This is religion, serious discussion. We don't play around.

Sarcasm is a very important way in which one can express a topic. By changing the point of view it gives people a better chance to grasp the nature of their words. Sarcasm is specifically used in serious situations which is what makes it a disliked form of humor and method of discourse.

If you actually say the way I debate perhaps you will understand but please do not take my usage of sarcasm as funny, because it is not. Great religious philosophers and theologians like Thomas Paine used excessive amounts of sarcasm to bring up points in literary discourse.

It is a very well implemented tactic for debating or negating errors.

 

[Jainarayan]

I forget my other part sorry. the "need" Jainarayan was talking about is "forced need" imposed by others. It's OTHER people telling YOU what YOUR duty is.

^ This. :yes: Which is different from guidance and teaching. It's the military type do-it-without-question "have to" I object to, unless of course you're in the military.