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Matthew 25 and signs of the Second Coming

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
I think we should both put down the stones and consider the original OP. Based on Matthew 25 there is a legitimate concern about the state of the world and if it is so bad that Christ is about to return. You know my opinion about that by now, as I know yours.


If you think my objection to some of your comments is stoning, think again. I know of not other way to say "you are wrong" than to say "you are wrong, and to say why I think so." You say I am wrong, but I bet you don't consider that as you stoning me.

Mt 25 is not about the state of the world. It is about identifying sheep and goats.

Both of us have a right to our perspective about the bible.

Of course. My comments are not about our differences, it is about you claiming to teach the Bible, when you reject some of it, including some basic Biblical doctrines, which are clearly taught in the Bible. I also acknowledge you think you are. Just anothe area of our disagreements.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Mt 25 is not about the state of the world. It is about identifying sheep and goats.

Matthew 24 and 25 make up the Olivet discourse, the last of Jesus's sermons as recorded in the book of Matthew. The teachings very much concern the state of the world at that time, events that were to happen in the not too distant future ie destruction of the temple, dispersion of the Jews, along with persecution of Christ's followers. This provides a platform for Christ to talk about in the very distant future when He will be coming again. The aspect about the sheep and goat is also about God's judgement on us all, and what He expects of us all.
 

MHz

Member
I side with the Jews and Muslims who say it does. I think the greatest proof is the life and teachings of both Moses and Muhammad and the transformative effect on the lives of millions of their followers.
The one thing they have in common is they believe in 'the one true God' from the OT. Job's view would be closer to what the Quran covers. The Bible is a divine book because the writings are by 40 different scribes over 100's of years and the message is available in plain language in the 21st Century. The fact the writings mesh at all would qualify it as 'unique', that they mesh so people of our generation (alone so far in history) The 1611 KJV is the only English translation that has a hope of bringing understanding to a targeted audience, an English speaking Gentile.
How well I remember what I have read is not possible to show, the quotes take care of that anyway. They also take away the errors introduced bibles saying the same thing in many different ways. It would be impossible to change the meaning of 'day of the lord' when there are 24 references to it as an exact phrase. There are other ways to do that but not posting the Scripture is right up there near the top of the list if changing the message is the goal.

I agree that it is not meant to surpass the bible but it does provide a book of Divine guidance for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. Unfortunately like your Christian ancestors the theory and practice were two very different things.
I think you have that wrong to a certain degree and any degree is a disaster.

3 times in the Bible that support my view that God always has a plan b and if it is there it is meant to be used.
The flood was the solution to 5 fingered people becoming extinct. With no people that are the image of Adam and Eve then there can be no 'seed of Eve' to fulfill the two determinations made in Ge:3:15.
The recovery was until the time Joseph was entered Egypt as a slave and from that point on the people were associated with things associated with the bruise to the heel.
The cross was the event known as the bruise to the heel, the 12 Tribes were given a different mission after that. Rather than being in the desert learning about God they were to take the published word to the Gentiles who would then face the same kind of judgment the 12 Tribes faces when Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 Commandments.The return will see 2/3 of all living Gentiles enter the grave because they did not receive the book as having any wisdom in it.

I actually agree with that. But then Jesus was simply quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 when asked about the most important law. So the OT is useful after all.
I quote way too much from the OT to have anything but respect for the text and that it is as valid as the NT is as far as accuracy goes.

If I have any complaint it is the scribes have taken it upon themselves to include an explanation that was written long before all of the Scribes had finished their work. You get something other than wisdom going that route.
As far as including help the church fathers could have divided the book a bit different. The first and last 3 chapters of the Bible do a decent job of explaining who the alpha and omega is from Re:21. The rest of the whole book is pretty much dedicated to the prophecy and fulfillment of the two bruises mentioned in Ge:3:15. God even left a way for the rejectors of the NT a way to get the material that Daniel needed to understand the whole of the things he was shown. The Gospel of John and Revelations are the works of a Scribe who was a Disciple of John the Baptist.
The passages are meant to add details to the whole picture,if they mesh you probably understand them correctly, if not then your understanding should become suspect rather than the text.
The answer to the rest might be a tad long for this post.it will resurface on it's own

I think we can get carried away to into a world of fanciful theories and ideas looking at apocalyptic scripture and in my experience its not a good starting place for an interfaith dialogue.
The day of the return is the most prophecised event in the whole Bible. If anything God almost left us too much information than too little.

If you don't look at each of the 24 individual passages that are about the same event you cannot honestly say you know what the Bible means when it uses the term 'day of the lord'. The has the rich detail, Revelations come with the right sequence and a timeline the sequence has to follow. God did the hard work for us.

It is important to highlight that the year 1260 on the Muslim calendar in the year 1844 for the Gregorian calendar. This is the year that the Baha'i revelation began.
How about 1492.The year that the earth was on it's way to understanding that 'all the nations on earth' fit into 1/4 of the whole of the earth's surface.

Jer:25:26:
And all the kings of the north,
far and near,
one with another,
and all the kingdoms of the world,
which are upon the face of the earth:
and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.

Re:6:7:
And when he had opened the fourth seal,
I heard the voice of the fourth beast say,
Come and see.
Re:6:8:
And I looked,
and behold a pale horse:
and his name that sat on him was Death,
and Hell followed with him.
And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,
to kill with sword,
and with hunger,
and with death,
and with the beasts of the earth.

I do not believe in a literal beast or Satan but these are symbols for dark forces in us all, and in humanity.
We are destined to be immortal and have similar power, we should be interested in avoiding the fate he experiences.

Seven of course is highly symbolic of perfection and so the story culminates in the return of Christ being world peace.
What they stand for is made crystal clear after reading the appropriate passages.

There will be great tribulation before humanity comes to its senses to recognise the returned Christ and there were great tribulations to bring the peoples of the Roman empire to an understanding of Christ.
That sounds like an interesting read,the Bible's version is also quite interesting.lol

I can see from your interpretation you take many verses literally.
Not as fanciful as it seems when the book is looked as being the work of a single author with a message specifically for the ones that will be alive for the literal return.
Universal salvation is also something the book shows if my understanding of a few key references is in context. It certainly removes the fighting for a 'limited number of seats'.

I also think the Garden was in bloom when the river in Eze:47wasflowing at that level. In literal terms that seem to be nothing more than the natural weather change that would tag along with the earth entering another ice-age, one destined to last a few 100,000 years

As weird as the day for a year may be in biblical prophecy, at least there is broad agreement amongst biblical scholars as to this approach.
Really? Perhaps I'll just put a check-mark up and leave it at that.

Isa:54:1:
Sing,
O barren,
thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing,
and cry aloud,
thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife,
saith the LORD.

Re:20:5:
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.

I haven't heard your particular version of events before, so am wondering if it is your own work in interpreting scripture. No problem if it is. Just curious.
It was what was left after I sorted through the documents used to support the various versions of the 'end-times'. My outlook on the points varies just enough that there is no place I can link you to that explains in in some sort of summation. I'm it I'm afraid, a church with one member if you will.

I'll look over your link
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Matthew 24 and 25 make up the Olivet discourse, the last of Jesus's sermons as recorded in the book of Matthew. The teachings very much concern the state of the world at that time, events that were to happen in the not too distant future ie destruction of the temple, dispersion of the Jews, along with persecution of Christ's followers. This provides a platform for Christ to talk about in the very distant future when He will be coming again. The aspect about the sheep and goat is also about God's judgement on us all, and what He expects of us all.

I think that is p art of it , but iMO, not the central teadhing.
 
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