I don't know how someone could establish that Brahman is reality. Especially when it isn't different to what we perceive is energy and matter. How do you perceive that energy and matter is an aspect of a Spiritual entity?
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Maybe God doesn't want to be found via the scientific method
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
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I don't know how someone could establish that Brahman is reality. Especially when it isn't different to what we perceive is energy and matter. How do you perceive that energy and matter is an aspect of a Spiritual entity?
Orbital
Member
I do not know what you concepts of that is, but it seems like you are doing exactly what I stated second in that post. You are just playing a semantic game by defining everything we perceive as a part of your god. The point is that if you are doing that you are just arbitrarily asserting that this is a property of your god just so that you conceptual idea of him has grounds in reality. While you have absolutely no methodology of proving that this is how reality works.
That is the problem with these kind of statements and justification, they do not work, inefficient, useless and anything can be plugged into the output.
I'm not trying to argue that it can or should be proven scientifically.
That Brahman is everything we see is important for the spiritualist. It's about mind-frame (seeing God everywhere). Recognition of Brahman as everything comes with high spiritual advancement. Even though Prabhupad stated that scientists would be able to 'discover' Brahman, I have my doubts. Probably the most significant result of understanding Brahman is acknowledgement that it is all-pervading Consciousness. Essentially, the foundation of the manifest world is this Consciousness. But I can't even begin to guess how scientists could understand the concept of divine consciousness and then to identify it.
But my reply to the OP was not untrue. You cannot 'locate' God, because either you are searching for a form that is not made of matter, or you are searching for Brahman, which is everywhere, and only a matter of perception and realisation.
Me Myself
Back to my username
Maybe, but let´s see if it is not God.
God:
-Is everywhere
-Can do anything
-Knows everything
-Can create out of nothing
-Loves all of us
"Everywhere" (The material around us) :
-Is everywhere
Is... well, you know...
-Omnipotence
It can do everything that we have seen it do, and given that we still don´t know "everything" about "everywhere" then it is natural to say "everywhere" might just be capable of doing "anything"
-Knows all
If he is "everywhere" and IS all, you may say he "knows" all, because he IS all. There is nothing beyond "everywhere´s" comprehension.
-Can create out of nothing
Particles blink in and out of existence all the time. Hello quantum physics!
-Love all of us:
Everything you are is part of him. Is him. Therefore, you have been absolutly accepted, exactly how you are, with no buts and no questions asked. Awww
Orbital
Member
This seems to be the every theist's definitong of a god, esspecially if you put in loves all of us.
Logical fallacies are already arising with this definition. An obvious contradiction is: If you can do anything you can change the future, but if you already know the future you cannot change it.
You are running into the same problem that Madhuri was. You are saying that everything is god or at least part of your god, yet you have no way of justifying this or proving that reality is in fact so. This statement is not proving anything but is just a continuation of your previous definition and can therefore be ignored.
Again, same thing as above. This would be true in the sense that on venus the statments A= B and A =/= B could be simultaneously correct. Although this is defintly an unscientific statement (and therefore insubstantial)
Not nessecarily. That would be like me saying you understand everything about yourself since you are you. That is demonastrable not true. The size of something does not create nessecary intelegence for it, so the statment that this enitiy knows all would also go unproven.
These virtual particles that you are refeering in quantum physics do not pertain to the same definition of nothingness.-Can create out of nothing
Particles blink in and out of existence all the time. Hello quantum physics!
'Nothing' in philosophy does not equal 'nothing' in physics.
I do not see how you can make that statement. There is no reasonable correlation you can set up between being him, his emotional state and his accceptence towards himself. He could for all we know be a very self-loathing person.-Love all of us:
Everything you are is part of him. Is him. Therefore, you have been absolutly accepted, exactly how you are, with no buts and no questions asked. Awww
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Me Myself
Back to my username
It´s practically a semantic thing. I am not trying to prove God is everything, I am just saying that "everything", in the way we know it now, could very well correspond to "God" in the way it is conceptualized. (Or at least most of the popular ways that it is conceptualized)
So, conceptually, you could say that "everything" is indeed "God", because they "do" the same. Now, the meaning of omnipotent, and omniscient as a contradiction, that is a human contradiction, a contradiction that comes from semantics alone.
Now, we do know ourselves incredibly well, we just don´t CONSIOUSLY know ourselves very well.
In any case, I am saying it´s not a "proof" of something "diferent" than what you think, it´s just a different angle to realities you already understand.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Orbital
Member
If god=everything then it is truly just a semantic game you are playing. But that is defintly not what you stated earlier. Your definition of god does not equal everything, in other words does not equal to reality.
This is not a human contradiction that comes from semantics alone, it is a logical contradictions. It is impossible to be all knowing and all powerfull at the same time as has been proven in my last post.
As it seems it is not a different angle to what I already understand. It is what I already understand + logical fallacies thrown ontop just so the idea of a god might be relevant in some way.
Me Myself
Back to my username
I probably didn´t made any intention clear with you, but oh well, I tried and take it as you may.
Blessings all around
Erebus
Well-Known Member
While I can agree that the scientific method is useful in understanding matter but not divinity, a better understanding of matter still makes certain God concepts difficult to defend. Simultaneously it makes others more impressive, naturalistic pantheism for example becomes more fascinating as we learn more about the material universe.
It's my opinion that the scientific method allows us to construct a comfortable and workable view of what our environment is and how it works. Beyond this you pretty much have to find the answers out for yourself. It's a difficult task without a unified method on how to go about doing it, but in my opinion it's very rewarding.
It's my opinion that the scientific method allows us to construct a comfortable and workable view of what our environment is and how it works. Beyond this you pretty much have to find the answers out for yourself. It's a difficult task without a unified method on how to go about doing it, but in my opinion it's very rewarding.
Let me put it this way then, linking to the OP:
Based on my philosophical understanding, God isn't 'hiding', but God cannot be 'found' using science. This is due to the reasons I have mentioned previously.
Those points were, in short, that the 'God' being searched for is not a thing of matter and the God that is everywhere cannot be (as far as i know) recognised as divine without spiritual realisations.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Two questions...
- Which concept of "God" are we talking about?
- Why is "God" intentionally hiding?
Well, we can assume that the future is fixed. There will only be one future, no matter who does or does not know it. So the question is, can the future be changed? I don't think so. So we can establish that God is omniscient, for the purpose of this conversation, but is it possible to be omnipotent? Hmmm...
You've given me something to ponder!
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I thought we already found God.
No, just the Goddess, obviously, as I'm right here.
I'm still searching for my husband. Have you seen him? You'll know when you do, because he is perfect. So when you come across the perfect man, send him my way
waitasec
Veteran Member
then why create us with the ability to be curious? we can see and hear things beyond our natural capabilities because we are curious.
we have been able to find cures for diseases because of our curiosity.
we have been able to foretell (better than ever before) the weather, what causes wind, hurricanes and tornadoes
we even know why we have earthquakes because we are curious and we wouldn't be able to do all those things with out an ounce of it.
i think you nailed it with your 1st sentence. the bible makes you feel safe...
just because you feel safe doesn't mean you are, anything can happen at anytime for no reason... because of our capacity of being curious we use our reasoning to try to figure things out...
indifference is not so easy to figure out because it's beyond our capacity of reason. and that is scary. so, is it safe?
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The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
No, just the Goddess, obviously, as I'm right here.
I'm still searching for my husband. Have you seen him? You'll know when you do, because he is perfect. So when you come across the perfect man, send him my way
-Goes on a search that makes two movie series and at the end of it finds a mirror and realize it was me all along- :flirt:
Scientists have helped us find god but we don't always recognize what is right in front of us.
outhouse
Atheistically
