Mazda & Yahweh: the same god?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I wandered onto a video 'related' to the one Mazdaian put up earlier (thank you, Mazdaian!) which argues that Ahura Mazda and Yahweh are actually the same god - using references from the Bible and historical texts as an explanation.

Does this argument have any weight? What do you think?

 

[Desert Snake]

No.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe with the god that Jesus spoke of, but not with YHVH.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Maybe with the god that Jesus spoke of, but not with YHVH.

Aren't Yahweh and the god Christ refers to the same because he calls the god as his father - and claims to be fulfilling the Jewish messianic prophecy?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Aren't Yahweh and the god Christ refers to the same because he calls the god as his father - and claims to be fulfilling the Jewish messianic prophecy?

I don't think so, no, since they are so different.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't think so, no, since they are so different.

Can't a being as complex as a god exhibit conflicting personality traits? Certainly people can.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Can't a being as complex as a god exhibit conflicting personality traits? Certainly people can.

Sure. I just think that Christianity is best understood in the context of Gnosticism and as a sort of Mystery school, personally.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Sure. I just think that Christianity is best understood in the context of Gnosticism and as a sort of Mystery school, personally.

Fair enough. I'll let that subject rest here though - else I risk derailing my own thread

 

[Native]

When it comes to the point of a superior creator, all cultural deities are of course culturally the same. since the creation is the same for all cultures. http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.Mythology.Keys.htm

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Native has an obvious point. If you believe in a supreme being, you obviously believe in the same supreme being as anyone else who does likewise! Naturally you may have different ideas about him, but two people may have different ideas (including very silly ones) about a mutual acquaintance. St Augustine accepted that those Pagans who believed in a single creator were worshiping the same God as him: it was their worship of other gods as well that troubled him. So, Zoroastrians, Jews, Muslims, Druze, Sikhs, and Bahai are presumably worshiping the same God.

I say presumably, as Yahweh was not originally considered the supreme being (that was El) but just the patron god of the Israelites. Over a couple of centuries, he was gradually "promoted", first to displace the god of this earth, Baal Hadad, and finally to creator status. So, one has to ask whether Jews are worshiping the supreme being under the name Yahweh, or worshiping a minor divinity and passing him off as supreme. I doubt if they know, but if one judges the tree by its fruit, then Amos Oz and Benjamin Netanyahu may be on opposite sides.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Native has an obvious point. If you believe in a supreme being, you obviously believe in the same supreme being as anyone else who does likewise! Naturally you may have different ideas about him, but two people may have different ideas (including very silly ones) about a mutual acquaintance. St Augustine accepted that those Pagans who believed in a single creator were worshiping the same God as him: it was their worship of other gods as well that troubled him. So, Zoroastrians, Jews, Muslims, Druze, Sikhs, and Bahai are presumably worshiping the same God.

I say presumably, as Yahweh was not originally considered the supreme being (that was El) but just the patron god of the Israelites. Over a couple of centuries, he was gradually "promoted", first to displace the god of this earth, Baal Hadad, and finally to creator status. So, one has to ask whether Jews are worshiping the supreme being under the name Yahweh, or worshiping a minor divinity and passing him off as supreme. I doubt if they know, but if one judges the tree by its fruit, then Amos Oz and Benjamin Netanyahu may be on opposite sides.

The only problem with that is Jewish & Persian cultures have had different respective experiences with Yahweh & Mazda to the point where they become conflicting.

Regarding your second paragraph, the same could be said of Ahura Mazda who was likely a deity in the early Indo-Aryan religion that would eventually evolve into Hinduism.

 

[wizanda]

Aren't Yahweh and the god Christ refers to the same because he calls the god as his father - and claims to be fulfilling the Jewish messianic prophecy?

Yeshua said to the Jews, they didn't know God his father, and only he could introduce them.... Also that their ideas of a God of the dead was wrong; as God was the lord of the living.

So there are clear statements to indicate that though Yeshua fulfilled prophecies put forth by YHVH, it might not be the most high (EL) that Yeshua followed.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yeshua said to the Jews, they didn't know God his father, and only he could introduce them....

Wasn't that more to do with Jesus thinking the Jews of his day had strayed from the religion of their ancestors - hence the money lenders in the Temple?

 

[wizanda]

Wasn't that more to do with Jesus thinking the Jews of his day had strayed from the religion of their ancestors - hence the money lenders in the Temple?

In some aspects, that would make sense when he said you're making children of hell, that could be implying that they're following the devil instead, and is often done by religious peoples....

Yet he is saying, that they couldn't know God, unless he introduced them, which then begs the question, surely the prophets, and some of the righteous Jews could've known God.

Anyways back to your question, the evidence in the video isn't quantifying the qualities of the deities, more that the texts might be Zoroastrianism rather than Jewish....Which wouldn't be surprising, considering how much they've plagiarized all the other cultures.

It is an interesting question to work out, if the prophecies interlink between the scriptures, and if they're the same deity based on the evidence within the text....Might spend the time to study it, and get back to you at some point.

 

[arthra]

Baha'is would accept that God is the same for Mazda Yasnians and Jews, Christians, Muslims... there are probably some cultural and linguistic differences but they are minimal.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Ahura Mazda and Yahweh are actually the same god ..

Maybe the historical roots are from 'belief in One God', but any more recent depictions bear no resemblance whatsoever.

 

[arthra]

I think you can see some survival of the worshipful attitude in the following prayer:

"O Ohrmazd, Lord! I am contrite for all sins and I desist from them, from all bad thoughts, bad words and bad acts which I have thought, spoken or done in the world, or which have happened through me, or have originated with me. For those sins of thinking, speaking and acting, of body and soul, worldly or spiritual, O Ohrmazd! I am contrite, I renounce them. With three words I distance myself (from them)."


http://www.avesta.org/ka/ka_part1.htm

 

[paarsurrey]

Mazda & Yahweh: the same god?

Both are proper names of G-d in different languages.
Regards

 

[Sand Dancer]

Zoroastrianism is definitely a big influence on Judaism, so I am sure they have the same attributes.

 

[Treks]

Native has an obvious point. If you believe in a supreme being, you obviously believe in the same supreme being as anyone else who does likewise! Naturally you may have different ideas about him, but two people may have different ideas (including very silly ones) about a mutual acquaintance. St Augustine accepted that those Pagans who believed in a single creator were worshiping the same God as him: it was their worship of other gods as well that troubled him. So, Zoroastrians, Jews, Muslims, Druze, Sikhs, and Bahai are presumably worshiping the same God.

I say presumably, as Yahweh was not originally considered the supreme being (that was El) but just the patron god of the Israelites. Over a couple of centuries, he was gradually "promoted", first to displace the god of this earth, Baal Hadad, and finally to creator status. So, one has to ask whether Jews are worshiping the supreme being under the name Yahweh, or worshiping a minor divinity and passing him off as supreme. I doubt if they know, but if one judges the tree by its fruit, then Amos Oz and Benjamin Netanyahu may be on opposite sides.

Wow, St Augustine paints with a broad brush! Sikhi doesn't have roots in Abrahamic religion, so I'm not sure how he concludes they are 'worshipping the same God'.