Meat Eaters = Selfish (Steve & Bill)

[Me Myself]

So wait the lack of pain reception means that the level of morality when it comes to eating plants is lower?

this is definetely my personal stand yes. What you eat had to suffer when it is meat.

Besides how do we know what plants feel or don't feel?

Very little research has stated that they maybe can feel something akin to pain, but even that is unconclusive as in now.

From an evolutionary stand point it makes little sense: Most plants won´t be able to move if they have something treathening them, so they haveno reason to feel an immidiate call of attention to move. We feel pain because it is the way our body tells us to get the **** away of pointy things, so do animals. I have not seen many plants getting away of pointy things, so I would say even if they do feel pain, it wouldn´t be immidiate but rather something that would take a lot of time to happen (because in that time they could grow away from the source of pain)

If plants could indeed feel pain there are still dietary solutions like eating fruits and dry nuts with cheese derivs. What would be missing I believe is iron, and I am sure something could be worked out. Worst came to worst, we would be forced to eat a little amount of suffering sentient beings, but it would be the required amount, and not because it "tastes good" but because we need it to survive. And we are talking in this paragraph of the absolute worst came to worst improbablest scenario )



The fact is simple: it is unnecesary pain, that we cause because it gives us pleasure (gastronomical).

 

[Iti oj]

Also, I'd like to say, why don't we kill humans and make food or coats out of them? We're having a population crisis too, we have limited food problems. Should we kill humans? In your logic I don't see why not.

Canabalism would cure world hunger me thinkth. eat all the people who die in war... People don't eat people for other reason were a superstitious lot. I mean we are on a religions forum. Plenty of reasons not to eat people. Their are even more reasons to to kill people.

Now eating people who died for other reasons? In war torn countries dead soldiers could feed the masses. But people have lots of taboos on it.


So whats your point, even if we shouldn't kill and eat people we still should be eating meat. your comparing biology and sociology

 

[fallingblood]

Also, I'd like to say, why don't we kill humans and make food or coats out of them? We're having a population crisis too, we have limited food problems. Should we kill humans? In your logic I don't see why not.

You don't see my logic because you completely twisted it. It really isn't worth responding more than that if you are willing to twist things so greatly.

 

[Me Myself]

So whats your point, even if we shouldn't kill and eat people we still should be eating meat. your comparing biology and sociology

"should"? I don´t know if you have some sort of "principle" of why we "should" but I can tell you our body doesn´t need it.

I am a healthy vegetarian,so I know.

 

[Me Myself]

And my son's last blood results ...

Wow! I completely ignored your response!, well let me see what you wrote o.o

And my son's last blood results showed that he needs more nutrients, which are readily available in meat. So there are alternatives; however, eating non-meat items is not a must either. If you really wanted to get down to it, one could survive off an IV. You choose to get certain nutrients from various living organisms, and I choose to get them from other living organisms.

I am not sure if we agree that a healthy diet can be 100% free of meat, but I think we do(you may correct me) and I´ll elaborate on such premise:

My postulate simply says, if we can sustain our life without causing suffering to other sentient beings (meat), isn´t it the taste a poor reason to just keep on making them suffer unnecesarily?

So me eating meat is natural.

Poison Ivy and disease is natural too. Wars in between human tribes is incredibly natural, as natural as it is in the animal kingdom.

Reality is, it is natural for the human being to rise above all of this. It is our nature to be able to change and direct our nature if we so choose to.

I choose the meat that I eat based on a variety of circumstances. I buy a lot of it from a local meat market, that slaughters the animals humanely. I know this because I have spent the time to learn about it.

Thats great! I truly mean it. but the reality still is that that is hardly the case with most meat eaters.

You being a vegetarian, and trying to tell me that it is more compassionate or moral simply is egotistical. It is you saying you're better than other simply because you think you're better. There is no evidence that people who eat meat are not compassionate or moral, or that they are less so.

I am saying that being a vegetarian is the most compassionate choice in this matter specificaly. I am not saying that just because you are compassionate in one way you are compassionate in all. Just because the OP says "Meat Eaters= Selfish" and I am promoting vegetarianism in this thread, doesn´t mean I Said that all meat eaters are less compassionate and more selfish that all vegetarians. I would deem such a posture unrefined to the least. There are all kinds of people with all kinds of beliefs for all kinds of reasons.

Just that I have a posture in what I believe it´s more compasionate and am promoting it as such doesn´t make me more egotistical than anyone doing so Most of us promote compassion in one way or another, consiously or unconciously. I do would invite you to rethink such title that you put me in : /

You are being very misleading. Cow farts (and burps actually) do not compromise a large part of the Green House effect. It actually compromises about 2%, which is the same as the amount produced from trash decomposing in landfills. Not really much at all. And really, the research shows that even if people stopped eating beef (say 50%), it would only drop the percent by maybe 1%. Really not significant.

Well, UN seemed concerned with their contribution to greenhouse effect to a kind of large extent last time I read it. I think it was in a msn today message. In this article it was said that the UN wanted to promote people eating bugs because bugs produce far less methane.

I may have been misinformed as I never looked deeply into it, but on a quick google search, here is an article that at least backs up the fact that UN reported concern in the subject.

Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns

I appreciate any insight you may bring on it as I see you have the badge of research, but to suggest that I am being purposefyully misleading is somewhat of a stretch (maybe I am drawing conclusions and you didn´t mean I did it on purpose?)

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Because we consider people as different than animals.

Why though...

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You don't see my logic because you completely twisted it. It really isn't worth responding more than that if you are willing to twist things so greatly.

How did I twist it exactly?

 

[Viker]

Canabalism would cure world hunger me thinkth. eat all the people who die in war... People don't eat people for other reason were a superstitious lot. I mean we are on a religions forum. Plenty of reasons not to eat people. Their are even more reasons to to kill people.

Now eating people who died for other reasons? In war torn countries dead soldiers could feed the masses. But people have lots of taboos on it.


So whats your point, even if we shouldn't kill and eat people we still should be eating meat. your comparing biology and sociology

Soylent Green.

 

[Drolefille]

Why though...

Why not ?

 

[Riverwolf]

Why though...

I don't think there's any rational reason; it's just an instinct. I imagine other carnivorous and omnivorous species would be the same way.

We are a social species, so we tend to care more about the lives of those with whom we've established a social bond. In most cases, that's humans, and in some cases, various pet animals. Most humans don't have a social bond with animals we eat, and so feel no shame in eating them.

 

[Me Myself]

Why not ?

"What is it that should trace the insuperable line? ...The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but, "Can they suffer?""
Jeremy Bentham, philosopher



"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921


"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."
Leo Tolstoy author


"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher


"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why not ?

... For the same reason I don't eat and slave blacks.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

... For the same reason I don't eat and slave blacks.

Just pointing out that, if you don't make a distinction between humans and animals, there is no reason to not eat meat. Animals will eat you whether or not you are vegetarian.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Just pointing out that, if you don't make a distinction between humans and animals, there is no reason to not eat meat. Animals will eat you whether or not you are vegetarian.

Yes but humans are able to reason, some animals don't have a choice... Also do you notice we're eating the herbivores mostly? We're not eating the ones that would eat us, we're eating the ones that wouldn't.

 

[Me Myself]

Just pointing out that, if you don't make a distinction between humans and animals, there is no reason to not eat meat. Animals will eat you whether or not you are vegetarian.

Oh yes, you see how they look at us? the on the right looks like it has the biggest killing instict, but I bet the one of the middle is the messier one, you know? blood spattered all over.

I mean, if we were grass

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Just pointing out that, if you don't make a distinction between humans and animals.

Funny how in centuries it went similar and that been proven wrong many times:

If you don't make a distinction between men and women.

If you don't make a distinction between blacks and white.

So yeah...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes but humans are able to reason, some animals don't have a choice... Also do you notice we're eating the herbivores mostly? We're not eating the ones that would eat us, we're eating the ones that wouldn't.

Humans are part of the animal Kingdom so why wouldn't they act and react as our brother animals do? Some animals eat meat, some eat plants. Same with humans. Most meat eating animals eat plant eating animals. Same with humans. You try to make the point that there is no difference between a human and an animal but then get upset when we act like an animal. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Me Myself]

Humans are part of the animal Kingdom so why wouldn't they act and react as our brother animals do? Some animals eat meat, some eat plants. Same with humans. Most meat eating animals eat plant eating animals. Same with humans. You try to make the point that there is no difference between a human and an animal but then get upset when we act like an animal.

Because the bigger brother is supposed to put the example

Because the cows are not eating us.

Because we are animals with higher moral understanding.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

:cover: I hate this phrase! I don´t know you, but if I have a cake, I plan to eat it!

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Same answer, thanks Me_Myself

 

[Me Myself]

Same answer, thanks Me_Myself

About the cake? please tell me it´s about the cake! We must stop this silly phrase from repeating itself as it already has! ITS MAYHEM!

Eh HEM I mean, yeah we do seem to see eye to eye on more than one thing.

My only differences maybe with what you think is that I personally would value a life of a human above a life of an animal (well, at least the life of most humans...) and that many compassionate people eat meat.