Medicare-For-All

[esmith]

Normally as supplements to fill gaps.

that is correct, no argument there. No matter what system is devised you will still have to have private insurance companies to cover the shortfall

 

[Subduction Zone]

Advocating single payer health care is not the same as advocating Medicare for all. Which would make this thread a bit of a strawman. A system that probably does not work does not refute a system that works better than ours in other countries.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Now given that what would you expect to pay for a Medicare-for-all plan per person?

If you're still asking, you haven't been paying attention and it would be a waste of time to go over it again.

 

[Salvador]

I keep hearing about Medicare-for-all and given the following facts have a question.

Let’s start off with some facts. Note all of the below refers to Part B not Part A
Medicare Premiums per person for 2019 Source
Premiums are between $135.00 and $460.50 in 6 income brackets.
Therefore let’s assume that a family of 4 making less than $170,000 would be paying $135.00 per person for a total of $540.00 based on the current premiums forgetting that these premiums are based on the governments income on past and present FICA Medicare taxes.

Now we will forget the annual ($185) deductable part.
Now under the current Medicare you are responsible for 20% of the Medicare-approved amount.
Medicare does not pay for most dental procedures
Medicare does not pay for most optical procedures.
Medicare does not pay for annual “physicals”, only a “wellness” visit that keeps track of your health
Medicare does not pay for prescriptions. Part D does for additional $35 a month

Now given that what would you expect to pay for a Medicare-for-all plan per person?

Bernie Sander's Medicare-for-all taxpayer funded health care insurance is expected to cost approximately $32.6 trillion dollars over the next ten years. This is a cost of $3.26 trillion on average each year.

The Costs of a National Single-Payer Healthcare System

Total annual health care spending in the U.S. currently is $3.5 trillion.

The Amount Americans Spend On Healthcare Is Still Growing, But More And More Slowly

"M4A would markedly increase the demand for healthcare services while simultaneously cutting payments to providers by more than 40 percent relative to private insurance rates, reducing payments to levels that are lower on average than providers’ current costs of providing care. It cannot be known how much providers will react to these losses by reducing the availability of existing health services, the quality of such services, or both."

The Costs of a National Single-Payer Healthcare System

There's one significant reason why medicare-for-all would be less costly than the status quo, which is the system of health insurance provided by private insurance companies; this reason is that because health care providers would be reimbursed at a reduced rate of approximately two-thirds in comparison to what they are now paid. If Medicare-for-all were to fully reimburse health care providers at the higher rates set by the current free-market system, then the cost of medicare-for-all would be significantly more than the current status quo of health insurance provided by private insurance companies that fully compensates doctors according to the free-market value of their services based on supply and demand.

 

[Salvador]

Advocating single payer health care is not the same as advocating Medicare for all. Which would make this thread a bit of a strawman. A system that probably does not work does not refute a system that works better than ours in other countries.

The only way a single payer system could be less costly than insurance provided by private insurance companies, is if medical providers are forced to take a significant reduction in pay. How would you like it if you were a doctor whose salary was reduced from $500,000 to less than $350,000?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The only way a single payer system could be less costly than insurance provided by private insurance companies, is if medical providers are forced to take a significant reduction in pay. How would you like it if you were a doctor whose salary was reduced from $500,000 to less than $350,000?

Really? The insurance companies are mostly an extra level of bureaucracy that also has to make a profit. Getting rid of them would not save money?

 

[Salvador]

Really? The insurance companies are mostly an extra level of bureaucracy that also has to make a profit. Getting rid of them would not save money?

Medicare compensates doctors at two-thirds what they could otherwise earn, this is the main reason why Medicare is less expensive than other forms of health insurance. The annual $240 billion of health care savings from Medicare-for-all would mostly be at the expense of health care providers.

If Medicare-for-all were to be enacted, there'd be significantly fewer doctors.

 

[esmith]

What are you trying to prove relative to the post of mine you qouted?

Your answer to the following to your following post.. Sorry forgot to include the link to the article addressed. It explains what "experts" were used for Obamacare....bean countrers
It was:
Where Did The Idea Of Obamacare Come From? A Defense Of The Heritage Foundation

How about you highlight the part you thinks proves whatever it is you are trying to prove.

 

[Valjean]

Look at your other countries, they still have private insurance companies.
No, a provider would not have to accept Medicare, they could rely on those that have private insurance.
In addition nothing says a provider has to take on new patients if they do not have the "room" for them.
Take a look at dental offices that say they are not taking on new patients.

Some countries have regulated private insurance, others have single-payer, a few others have socialized healthcare.
The US has all three plus an out-of-pocket system.
Five Countries - Health Care Systems -- The Four Basic Models | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

":Medicare-for-all" is a label of convenience, referencing an already familiar system. There's no reason a universal, medicare-like system need mirror the system exactly. Medicare has known problems, and has been nibbled at by private interests. No need to incorporate these into a new system.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Medicare compensates doctors at two-thirds what they could otherwise earn, this is the main reason why Medicare is less expensive than other forms of health insurance. The annual $240 billion of health care savings from Medicare-for-all would mostly be at the expense of health care providers.

If Medicare-for-all were to be enacted, there'd be significantly fewer doctors.

I am not advocating Medicare for all. I pointed out that in my first response here. Do not conflate Medicare for all, which is only one form of healthcare reform, with all the many different kinds of healthcare reform.

 

[youknowme]

Uhg. . . I am so sick of this arugment we have been having it for decades.

 

[Valjean]

I'm just asking if you are willing to pay what I'm paying for and getting just what I'm getting. Also you say healthcare would be overhauled. Do you think the cost of procedures would be lowered in the "overhaul".

I see no reason why we couldn't reduce the cost of healthcare by two thirds. It's not only currently a for-profit business, but it's a byzantine Rube Goldberg of dozens of extraneous, special interests with fingers in the pie.

 

[Salvador]

I am not advocating Medicare for all. I pointed out that in my first response here. Do not conflate Medicare for all, which is only one form of healthcare reform, with all the many different kinds of healthcare reform.

What if any health care reform would you suggest?

Single payer health care insurance elsewhere pays doctors less than what they are compensated here in the U.S. by the free-market or private insurance companies. For example, physicians in the U.K., typically are paid half of what their counterparts in the U.S. are paid.

 

[youknowme]

Your answer to the following to your following post.. Sorry forgot to include the link to the article addressed. It explains what "experts" were used for Obamacare....bean countrers
It was:
Where Did The Idea Of Obamacare Come From? A Defense Of The Heritage Foundation

I support Obamacare. I think you are trying to peddle to the wrong crowd.

 

[youknowme]

What subject matter did the "experts" contribute to Obamacare...
Answer: Bean Counting.

Oh by the way you still haven't answered my question:
I'm just asking if you are willing to pay what I'm paying for and getting just what I'm getting. Also you say healthcare would be overhauled. Do you think the cost of procedures would be lowered in the "overhaul".

I have no intention of wasting my time on your straw-man questions.

 

[Salvador]

I see no reason why we couldn't reduce the cost of healthcare by two thirds. It's not only currently a for-profit business, but it's a byzantine Rube Goldberg of dozens of extraneous, special interests with fingers in the pie.

There's very few profitable private health insurance providers; by law, they are required to pay out 80 percent of their premiums collected from their policy holders towards their policy holder's health care expenses covered by the company's health insurance coverage.

Rate Review & the 80/20 Rule

Health law requires insurers to spend premiums on patients -- or pay rebates

 

[youknowme]

Bottom line is that our outdated healthcare system needs an overhaul and Republicans have shown that their only goal in that aim has been to get in the way. They have left us with no other choice but to rely on the Democrats for this much needed change.

 

[Salvador]

Some countries have regulated private insurance, others have single-payer, a few others have socialized healthcare.
The US has all three plus an out-of-pocket system.
Five Countries - Health Care Systems -- The Four Basic Models | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

":Medicare-for-all" is a label of convenience, referencing an already familiar system. There's no reason a universal, medicare-like system need mirror the system exactly. Medicare has known problems, and has been nibbled at by private interests. No need to incorporate these into a new system.

Here are some simple health care reforms that could easily reduce the cost of health care for many Americans:

The medical malpractice liability system costs 2.4 percent of our total health care cost. in America; capping medical malpractice liability settlements could easily reduce health care cost by nearly 2 percent.

National Costs Of The Medical Liability System

Health insurance reform as proposed by Dr. Rand Paul would lower health insurance premiums and health care costs for many individuals by way of allowing them to join association health plans, which would enable many individual consumers to get group policy discount rates.

About Association Health Plans | U.S. Department of Labor

Legislation replacing Obamacare with a plan allowing Americans to shop for insurance across state lines and the use of tax credits to save for care and prescription drugs, in addition to health association plans would significantly reduce health insurance costs for millions of Americans.

"What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool."

Rand Paul’s ‘Obamacare Replacement Act’ Deserves Trump’s Attention

 

[Subduction Zone]

What if any health care reform would you suggest?

Single payer health care insurance elsewhere pays doctors less than what they are compensated here in the U.S. by the free-market or private insurance companies. For example, physicians in the U.K., typically are paid half of what their counterparts in the U.S. are paid.

Where did you get that figure from? They do get paid less, but it is closer to 2/3 than 1/2:

How Much Do Doctors in Other Countries Make?

Some of that difference may be cultural, it is not really possible to say that it is all due to a different healthcare system.

 

[Salvador]

Where did you get that figure from? They do get paid less, but it is closer to 2/3 than 1/2:

How Much Do Doctors in Other Countries Make?

Some of that difference may be cultural, it is not really possible to say that it is all due to a different healthcare system.

As far as I know, single payer elsewhere as well as Medicare significantly determines how much doctors get paid for their services.