Medicare-For-All

[dianaiad]

Of course it can. Decrease millitary spending by 20%. Stop millitary adventurism, and it will work like a charm.

Oh, I absolutely agree.

Just as soon as everybody ELSE does. History has shown us that every single time a powerful nation cuts back military spending...for very good reasons...other nations get greedy and 'go after." WWII and what both the UK and the US did should be a pretty good case in point.

but you are absolutely right. The problem isn't about getting US to cut back. It's about getting the Germany's and the Japans.....(though they have since joined the 'good guys,' of course) to not take advantage. What you are proposing is a fundamental sea change in human thinking. Wonderful if you could pull it off, but, er.....I don't see that happening.

 

[dianaiad]

Ya, I don't really care.

Then I suggest you stop throwing insults at people and posts you don't really care about. It's annoying.

 

[Salvador]

I see that you have never been in the position of having to pay one of those BACK, at more than a $1000 per month.

I worked my way through college, it took me a bit longer to complete my higher education this way, but I had less debt when I graduated.

 

[youknowme]

Then I suggest you stop throwing insults at people and posts you don't really care about. It's annoying.

Sure whatever. . .

 

[oldbadger]

......................

Let's face it......... a civilised community provides free healthcare for all.

Hi...... I have not checked to see if a Brit has answered to give a UK National Health Service comparison, but here goes, anyway.

Medicare does not pay for most dental procedures

Our NHS does part-pay for most dental procedures, but we have to pay circa £18 towards a check-up, £50 towards a filling, £200 towards a crown, etc etc.

Medicare does not pay for most optical procedures.

Our NHS pays for children and pensioners to have an eye test every two years, and every year if there is a medical reason for more frequent tests. Children may get free basic spectacles, but school kids are more fussy about their specs than anybody, I reckon. We all pay for our specs. All working folks pay circa £15 for an eye test.

Medicare does not pay for annual “physicals”, only a “wellness” visit that keeps track of your health

Our NHS pays for all precautionary checks and tests.

Medicare does not pay for prescriptions. Part D does for additional $35 a month

Our NHS pays for children's and pensioners' prescriptions. For all others there is a circa £8+ fee for each item on a prescription form.

Now given that what would you expect to pay for a Medicare-for-all plan per person?

Everybody who works pays about 5% of their wages in to a National Insurance Contribution which also provides for a small pension as well as National Health.

Let's face it......... a civilised community provides free healthcare for all. All my price guides are 'circa', because I've never had to pay for those items in ten years. [/QUOTE]

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Actually the only countries to provide totally free health care are Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, using their oil revenues. In Europe, there are assorted charges like the ones Old Badger gave for the UK, or a charge to see a doctor (Norway), or an accommodation charge in hospital.

The big difference between Europe and the US is that we don't have chronically sick unable to afford care (e.g. diabetics) or people bankrupted by medical emergencies. The other difference is that drugs and medical equipment are much cheaper and doctors are paid less, so the costs are smaller.

 

[Salvador]

Actually the only countries to provide totally free health care are Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, using their oil revenues. In Europe, there are assorted charges like the ones Old Badger gave for the UK, or a charge to see a doctor (Norway), or an accommodation charge in hospital.

The big difference between Europe and the US is that we don't have chronically sick unable to afford care (e.g. diabetics) or people bankrupted by medical emergencies. The other difference is that drugs and medical equipment are much cheaper and doctors are paid less, so the costs are smaller.

If doctors were to be paid less in the U.S., then there would be fewer of them; hence, there would be a shortage of health care providers here.

If medical care were entirely or nearly entirely funded by taxpayers, without substantial insured cost sharing responsibilities, then the health care system would get abused and overly used; hence, the shortage of health care would be further compounded with the shortage of doctors due to the fact single payer systems pay doctors less than what they could make in the free-market system with patients who are self-insured or who are privately insured.

Long waits for seeing a doctor or extreme health care rationing might be acceptable to socialist Europeans, but this would be totally unacceptable to most of us free-market capitalistic Americans.

 

[youknowme]

If doctors were to be paid less in the U.S., then there would be fewer of them; hence, there would be a shortage of health care here.

If medical care were entirely or nearly entirely funded by taxpayers, without substantial insured cost sharing responsibilities, then the health care system would get abused and overly used; hence, the shortage of health care would be further compounded with the shortage of doctors due to the fact single payer systems pay doctors less than what they could make in the free-market system with patients who are self-insured or who are privately insured.

Long waits for seeing a doctor might be acceptable to socialist Europeans, but this would be totally unacceptable to most Americans.

You have no evidence such a system would be overly abused, and I would assume that the millions without insurance would gladly take long lines over medical bills that would bankrupt them and lock them into poverty for the rest of their life.

 

[youknowme]

This is interesting. . .

The Affordable Care Act (ACA) led to historic gains in health insurance coverage by extending Medicaid coverage to many low-income individuals and providing Marketplace subsidies for individuals below 400% of poverty. The number of uninsured nonelderly Americans decreased from over 44 million in 2013 (the year before the major coverage provisions went into effect) to just below 27 million in 2016. However, in 2017, the number of uninsured people increased by nearly 700,000 people, the first increase since implementation of the ACA. Ongoing efforts to alter the ACA or to make receipt of Medicaid contingent on work may further erode coverage gains seen under the ACA. This fact sheet describes how coverage has changed in recent years, examines the characteristics of the uninsured population, and summarizes the access and financial implications of not having coverage.

Key Facts about the Uninsured Population

 

[youknowme]

Honestly, this is a non-brainier. A cheaper more effective system that covers more people over the current costly, ineffective system, which leaves millions without any coverage at all.

It is time to make America great again with single payer healthcare.

 

[Salvador]

You have no evidence such a system would be overly abused, and I would assume that the millions without insurance would gladly take long lines over medical bills that would bankrupt them and lock them into poverty for the rest of their life.

Mr. Esmith already provided this evidence back in post #79.

"I have one more troubling fact to lay at the feet of the Medicare-for-all/single payer system.
Following is from Source
There are approximately 56 million people receiving Medicare. This includes both those 65 and older and disabled people of any age.
In 2016 Medicare Advantage improper payment rate was 10 percent in 2016, which comes to $16.2 billion. Add in the overpayments for standard Medicare programs, the tally for last year approaches $60 billion. Now the was for only 56 million people. Now the population of the U.S. is around 328,000,000. What do you think the improper payment per year with be with all of that money floating around.
Now if you read the entire article what do you think all of the problems will be if it is expanded 5 fold."

There does need to be insured cost sharing responsibilities in order to prevent providers from bilking the system at taxpayer expense by providing medically unnecessary tests or medically unnecessary treatments.

Republicans like Dr. Rand Paul have proposed health care reform that'd make health care more affordable for many hard working class Americans.

Here are some simple health care reforms that could easily reduce the cost of health care for many Americans:

The medical malpractice liability system costs 2.4 percent of our total health care cost. in America; capping medical malpractice liability settlements could easily reduce health care cost by nearly 2 percent.

National Costs Of The Medical Liability System

Health insurance reform as proposed by Dr. Rand Paul would lower health insurance premiums and health care costs for many individuals by way of allowing them to join association health plans, which would enable many individual consumers to get group policy discount rates.

About Association Health Plans | U.S. Department of Labor

Legislation replacing Obamacare with a plan allowing Americans to shop for insurance across state lines and the use of tax credits to save for care and prescription drugs, in addition to health association plans would significantly reduce health insurance costs for millions of Americans.

"What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool."

Rand Paul’s ‘Obamacare Replacement Act’ Deserves Trump’s Attention

 

[Salvador]

Honestly, this is a non-brainier. A cheaper more effective system that covers more people over the current costly, ineffective system, which leaves millions without any coverage at all.

It is time to make America great again with single payer healthcare.

Unfortunately, neither health care shortages nor health care fraud from single payer health care won't make America great again. America was great without single payer health care when JFK was President, and America can be great once again with a health care system made affordable by tort reform, tax credits, health savings accounts, group discount pricing through health associations, lower-priced insurance options, and shopping for lower priced insurance across state lines.

 

[youknowme]

Mr. Esmith already provided this evidence back in post #79.

"I have one more troubling fact to lay at the feet of the Medicare-for-all/single payer system.
Following is from Source
There are approximately 56 million people receiving Medicare. This includes both those 65 and older and disabled people of any age.
In 2016 Medicare Advantage improper payment rate was 10 percent in 2016, which comes to $16.2 billion. Add in the overpayments for standard Medicare programs, the tally for last year approaches $60 billion. Now the was for only 56 million people. Now the population of the U.S. is around 328,000,000. What do you think the improper payment per year with be with all of that money floating around.
Now if you read the entire article what do you think all of the problems will be if it is expanded 5 fold."

There does need to be insured cost sharing responsibilities in order to prevent providers from bilking the system at taxpayer expense by providing medically unnecessary tests or medically unnecessary treatments.

Republicans like Dr. Rand Paul have proposed health care reform that'd make health care more affordable for many hard working class Americans.

Here are some simple health care reforms that could easily reduce the cost of health care for many Americans:

The medical malpractice liability system costs 2.4 percent of our total health care cost. in America; capping medical malpractice liability settlements could easily reduce health care cost by nearly 2 percent.

National Costs Of The Medical Liability System

Health insurance reform as proposed by Dr. Rand Paul would lower health insurance premiums and health care costs for many individuals by way of allowing them to join association health plans, which would enable many individual consumers to get group policy discount rates.

About Association Health Plans | U.S. Department of Labor

Legislation replacing Obamacare with a plan allowing Americans to shop for insurance across state lines and the use of tax credits to save for care and prescription drugs, in addition to health association plans would significantly reduce health insurance costs for millions of Americans.

"What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

1. The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

2. The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

4. The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool."

Rand Paul’s ‘Obamacare Replacement Act’ Deserves Trump’s Attention

You think improper payments don't happen with private insurance? I find that very unlikely.

 

[youknowme]

Unfortunately, neither health care shortages nor health care fraud from single payer health care won't make America great again.

Well buckle in, because it is coming.

 

[Salvador]

Well buckle in, because it is coming.

Oh dear, please no, it doesn't have to come down to this when there are better ways to make health care more affordable for the hard-working-class American folks.

 

[youknowme]

Oh dear, please no, it doesn't have to come down to this when there are better ways to make health care more affordable for the hard-working-class American folks.

This healthcare debate has been going on for decades. People have been more consistently focused on healthcare than anything else and over that time support for some form of single payer healthcare has just grown. I have seen no evidence that this trend is changing, which means public pressure will continue to grow until it is overwhelming.

 

[Salvador]

You think improper payments don't happen with private insurance? I find that very unlikely.

When there's insured cost sharing responsibility, patients pay closer attention to their medical bills.

 

[esmith]

You think improper payments don't happen with private insurance? I find that very unlikely.

Fraud statistics

 

[youknowme]

Fraud statistics

And this proves?

 

[dianaiad]

I worked my way through college, it took me a bit longer to complete my higher education this way, but I had less debt when I graduated.

Many students have done this. I did....and I did it when I was 55.

However, medical students have a little more trouble pulling that off than most people...and when it comes time for internships and residencies...followed by specialty training...whew! ....

I'm just going here by what several of my cousins went through; interns, for instance, who are on call 24/7 don't have time to 'work their way through college' the way I did.