Meds?

[Lintu]

I just don't see that. You certaintly have the right to your own opinion, I just can't understand where that opinion is coming from. I guess my feeling on this stems from a personal incident though, as my father holds the same opinion.

It's mostly that I don't want to have to take pills to be normal. I don't like the idea that I can't be right without help. That just bothers me. Also, I really just hate the side effects. If there weren't any, I would probably take meds.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

From what I have seen with a brother who has a serious mental disorder to the degree that he has had to have been forcibly institutionalized by a court due to bighting a police officer, there are pro's and con's to this issue. The pro's are the obvious benefits my brother gets from these medications. The con's are the obvious motivations that I see in a lot of careworkers, etc, that have worked with my brother. They are obviously not to help or cure him but to pacify his symptoms in order to keep him under control. I have yet to see a careworker, etc, that has worked with him and does not frown on the idea of spirituality. So if the medications don't hinder spirituality, which is very debatable to a point, I beleive that a vast majority of those who administer such medications do however hinder spirituality, especially of a Christian nature.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Antidepressants shown to be useless in helping adolescents, while suicides abound

The list of suicides and the incidence of violent behavior by children taking antidepressant drugs continues to grow, and yet both the FDA and the manufacturers of these drugs continue to deny any link whatsoever. Realize there is absolutely no scientific evidence showing that these antidepressant drugs do anything at all to improve the mental state of children taking them. There is simply no evidence of this, despite all of the studies that have been paid for by drug companies in an effort to find some tiny shred of positive news they could take to the FDA as "proof" that these drugs were useful. If anything, the drug companies' own clinical trials have only proven that antidepressant drugs cause violent behavior and suicides, not that they improve the mental state of children taking them.

The list of suicides and the incidence of violent behavior by children taking antidepressant drugs continues to grow, and yet both the FDA and the manufacturers of these drugs continue to deny any link whatsoever. Realize there is absolutely no scientific evidence showing that these antidepressant drugs do anything at all to improve the mental state of children taking them. There is simply no evidence of this, despite all of the studies that have been paid for by drug companies in an effort to find some tiny shred of positive news they could take to the FDA as "proof" that these drugs were useful. If anything, the drug companies' own clinical trials have only proven that antidepressant drugs cause violent behavior and suicides, not that they improve the mental state of children taking them.

All of this is a moot point anyway, since mental depression is not caused by a brain chemical imbalance in the first place. Imbalanced brain chemistry is simply the resulting symptom of a deeper cause: nutritional imbalances, lack of sunlight, and lack of physical fitness, primarily.

And yet the very idea that treating or reversing clinical depression could be as easy as changing a person's nutrition, exposure to healing sunlight, and physical exercise habits is considered heresy by a most doctors and the vast majority of psychiatrists. Why? Because if you admit that a patient can heal themselves by altering their own dietary habits, you take away the ability for doctors to live such extravagant lifestyles.

Unfortunately, too many people turn to drugs in search of a magic bullet solution that does not require them to take the courageous step of owning their outcome. Too many people are reluctant to take responsibility for the results caused by their own actions, and they therefore resist making changes in their lifestyle that would require effort or risk. It's easier to go to a doctor, give them the power to solve your problems, and then take a magic pill once a day for the rest of your life. That's the easy way out, it seems, but in reality it is neither easy nor is it any way out: it doesn't address the core problem at all, which is for most people nothing more complicated than the fact that they aren't leading a healthy lifestyle in the first place, and therefore they aren't happy about how they feel.

You can call it clinical depression, and certainly there are many doctors and psychiatrists who would be happy to diagnose it as such, but in fact it is nothing more than a person who is suffering from " Western lifestyle disease" which promotes a high carbohydrate diet, irrational fear of the sun, and avoidance of physical exercise. Be sure to read the related article, Massive medical fraud exposed: pharmaceutical company paid doctors to prescribe drugs and run sham clinical trials.

 

[michel]

EnhancedSpirit,

You make your views known all the time; I respect them, but you MUST realize that there are people out 'there' who, if they were to be denied medication, would be a danger to themselves and perhaps others.

Until we can find a 'quick fix' as you call it, to give psychiatrists and psychologists the time to try and sort out the root cause of the mental problem, medication has a place.

Would you rather that the depressed all go out and commit suicide, because medication is not an 'ideal' solution ? Think about what you are saying!

 

[Melody]

If anything, the drug companies' own clinical trials have only proven that antidepressant drugs cause violent behavior and suicides, not that they improve the mental state of children taking them.

Interesting, these children exhibited violent behavior and suicidal tendencies *before* they started on anti-depressives. Logic says that if they did something violent or suicidal after starting the medication, then whatever medication they were taking was not working...rather than the medication causing the behavior.

All of this is a moot point anyway, since mental depression is not caused by a brain chemical imbalance in the first place. Imbalanced brain chemistry is simply the resulting symptom of a deeper cause: nutritional imbalances, lack of sunlight, and lack of physical fitness, primarily.

While some depression can be caused by the things you mention, it is also true that there can be a chemical imbalance in the brain. It is irresponsible to deny that it exists and promote the idea that all depression can be cured with vitamins, diet or counselling. Once again, we're back to the old view of depression that "if you'd just quit whining and do something about it, you wouldn't be depressed.

but in fact it is nothing more than a person who is suffering from " Western lifestyle disease" which promotes a high carbohydrate diet, irrational fear of the sun, and avoidance of physical exercise.

I eat a low carb diet already in order to keep my diabetes under control, spend an adequate amount of time in the sun since I love to garden and play in the pool with my son and, other than the regular exercise I get helping out in my warehouse, gardening and housework, I also do aerobics 3x a week and swim laps twice a week. And yet I still suffer from depression....or is it all just in my head.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

EnhancedSpirit,

You make your views known all the time; I respect them, but you MUST realize that there are people out 'there' who, if they were to be denied medication, would be a danger to themselves and perhaps others.

Until we can find a 'quick fix' as you call it, to give psychiatrists and psychologists the time to try and sort out the root cause of the mental problem, medication has a place.

Would you rather that the depressed all go out and commit suicide, because medication is not an 'ideal' solution ? Think about what you are saying!

If this were just my opinion, I would see your arguement. But this last post was from News Target Network (their mission: Our mission is public education. We are 100% dedicated to finding and reporting the truth on topics that matter. We're 100% independent, we take no money from the companies or products we write about, and we cannot be bought off.) They have a lot of other information, like Fluoride chemicals added to water can also add harmful lead, North American women don't get enough vitamin D, US regulator suppresses vital data on prescription drugs on sale in Britain and Big Tobacco and Big Pharma: same tactics, different chemicals.

If people don't know the truth, they won't even ask for alternatives, they will just keep taking someones word for it. And the someones are those who profit from people staying sick. There is no money in the long run for helping people get better. There is money in 'manageing illness'.

Interesting, these children exhibited violent behavior and suicidal tendencies *before* they started on anti-depressives. Logic says that if they did something violent or suicidal after starting the medication, then whatever medication they were taking was not working...rather than the medication causing the behavior.

Show me one, just one, teenager who did not experience depression. Show me one person, who at some point in their lives did not think about suicide. We all have those thoughts and feelings. And I was taught that using drugs to mask these feelings was wrong. Why is it ok now? Why are we passing out 'happy pills', instead of teaching people how to deal with their emotions? People get unhappy when there lives are not following their true destinies. Why would you turn of the light in your head that helps guide you to true happiness? Because it's easier to take a pill? That's the same arguement an alchoholic uses.

 

[Melody]

Show me one, just one, teenager who did not experience depression. Show me one person, who at some point in their lives did not think about suicide. We all have those thoughts and feelings. And I was taught that using drugs to mask these feelings was wrong. Why is it ok now? Why are we passing out 'happy pills', instead of teaching people how to deal with their emotions? People get unhappy when there lives are not following their true destinies. Why would you turn of the light in your head that helps guide you to true happiness? Because it's easier to take a pill? That's the same arguement an alchoholic uses.

In my own circle alone, I can show hundreds of people who never experienced depression or suicidal thoughts in their entire lives. I have always suffered from depression, but I *never* contemplated suicide. No, we don't all have those thoughts and feelings.

ES...do yourself a favor and educate yourself on depression. People suffering from clinical depression due to a chemical imbalance (ever heard of neurotransmitters, seratonin, etc.?) aren't depressed because they are unable to "deal with their emotions".

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

In my own circle alone, I can show hundreds of people who never experienced depression or suicidal thoughts in their entire lives. I have always suffered from depression, but I *never* contemplated suicide. No, we don't all have those thoughts and feelings.

ES...do yourself a favor and educate yourself on depression. People suffering from clinical depression due to a chemical imbalance (ever heard of neurotransmitters, seratonin, etc.?) aren't depressed because they are unable to "deal with their emotions".

Would you like me to educate myself with the truth or the rhetoric of the pharm companies? I think you have a case of the grass is greener. Just because someone doesn't tell you about their depression, doesn't mean they haven't been depressed. In fact a lot of people keep that to themselves. Which is why suicide is hard to avoid. Most people may mentioned it, in passing, but most people with suicidal thoughts do not talk about it. This is why the thoughts fester and manifest into action.

I cannot believe that all the people you know have been perfectly happy there whole lives. I know many people who have miserable lives in my opinion, however have learned to deal with their emotions, and does not let it bother them. They learn to appreciate what they have, instead of fret over what they don't. They learn to look for the good things instead of the bad. A wealthy, well-loved, gifted child, can still have feelings of depression. But what are they going to do about it. How does society teach them to deal with it?

All the information I have recieved leads me to believe that:
1. emotional pain (like physical pain) is a signal that something is wrong.
2. the material world is a mirror for our spiritual selves.
3. illness and disease is a symptom of spiritual malnutrition, or neglect.

You may have heard people talk about chemical imbalances in the brain that occur in depression, suggesting that depression is a medical illness, without psychological causes. However, all psychological problems have some physical manifestations, and all physical illnesses have psychological components as well. In fact, the chemical imbalances that occur during depression usually disappear when you complete psychotherapy for depression, without taking any medications to correct the imbalance. This suggests that the imbalance is the body's physical response to psychological depression, rather than the other way around.

Some types of depression do seem to run in families, suggesting a biological vulnerability. This seems to be the case with bipolar depression and, to a lesser degree, severe major depression. Studies of families, in which members of each generation develop bipolar disorder, found that those with bipolar disorder have a somewhat different genetic makeup than those who are not diagnosed.

However, the reverse is not true. Not everybody with the genetic makeup that causes this vulnerability to bipolar disorder develops the disorder. Additional factors, such as stress and other psychological factors, are involved in its onset as well. Likewise, major depression also seems to occur, generation after generation, in some families, but not with a frequency that suggests clear biological causes. Additionally, it also occurs in people who have no family history of depression. So, while there may be some biological factors that contribute to depression, it is clearly a psychological disorder.

A variety of psychological factors appear to play a role in vulnerability to these severe forms of depression. Most likely, psychological factors are completely responsible for other forms of mild and moderate depression, especially reactive depression. Reactive depression is usually diagnosed as an adjustment disorder during treatment.

People who have low self-esteem, who consistently view themselves and the world with pessimism, or who are readily overwhelmed by stress are more prone to depression. Psychologists often describe social learning factors as being significant in the development of depression, as well as other psychological problems. People learn both adaptive and maladaptive ways of managing stress and responding to life problems within their family, educational, social and work environments. These environmental factors influence psychological development, and the way people try to resolve problems when they occur. Social learning factors also explain why psychological problems appear to occur more often in family members, from generation to generation. If a child grows up in a pessimistic environment, in which discouragement is common and encouragement is rare, that child will develop a vulnerability to depression as well.

A serious loss, chronic illness, relationship problems, work stress, family crisis, financial setback, or any unwelcome life change can trigger a depressive episode. Very often, a combination of biological, psychological, and environmental factors are involved in the development of depressive disorders, as well as other psychological problems. When you feel depressed, and don't know where to turn, talk to someone who can help.... a psychologist.

 

[Melody]

ES,
I can pull just as many websites and psychological journal articles to dispute this and just because you don't believe that nobody in the world is able to get through life without depression or suicidal thoughts, doesn't mean it's the case.

I *live* with depression every day and no amount of counseling is going to help because my depression is not caused by *life*. You, and people like you, can sit there in judgment all day and say that my depression can be cured by vitamins, exercise, etc...but it doesn't make it so and I get quite irate at the thought of people who must suffer their whole lives with depression because someone convinces them that if they wanted to be rid of it, they could be. Should an insulin dependent diabetic quit taking insulin because someone believes that proper nutrition and vitamins would negate their need?

Quit sitting in judgment. You have no idea what it's like to suffer from depression for 35 years, knowing there isn't a reason in the world you should be depressed because life is good. I was raised by loving parents in a large loving family. I don't have financial worries. I run a business that I love. I could not ask for a better husband or children. All in all, my life is pretty much perfect....and yet without my medication, I will end up locking myself in my bedroom, refusing to talk to anyone.

Even with the Prozac, I have days where I'm down...just like a normal person, but the difference is, I can handle them. I still get sad about thing. I still get angry about things....but I can handle it. And as you can see I get very angry at the thought of people who live their entire lives in this hellhole because well meaning people convince them that this is just a character defect because they refuse to eat or exercise correctly.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

ES,
I *live* with depression every day and no amount of counseling is going to help because my depression is not caused by *life*. You, and people like you, can sit there in judgment all day and say that my depression can be cured by vitamins, exercise, etc...but it doesn't make it so and I get quite irate at the thought of people who must suffer their whole lives with depression because someone convinces them that if they wanted to be rid of it, they could be. Should an insulin dependent diabetic quit taking insulin because someone believes that proper nutrition and vitamins would negate their need?

Quit sitting in judgment. You have no idea what it's like to suffer from depression for 35 years, knowing there isn't a reason in the world you should be depressed because life is good. I was raised by loving parents in a large loving family. I don't have financial worries. I run a business that I love. I could not ask for a better husband or children. All in all, my life is pretty much perfect....and yet without my medication, I will end up locking myself in my bedroom, refusing to talk to anyone.

I'm not sitting in judgement Melody. I have not only thought of suicide, but attempted it. I have been to counseling, and I have been medicated. The side effects of the medication were worse than the depression. I live with depression every day. I am a single mother of two, my daughters father has a lot of money and is constantly looking for a valid reason to take my daughter away from me, even though I never keep him from seeing her. He wants full custody, all the time. The man I truly love is far away, going through a lot of things and I can't help him.

Suicidal thoughts do not just come from feelings of utter despair. Sometimes it comes from just bein tired. Tired of working 'against' so much.

Physical illness and disease are symptoms of a weak, or damaged spirit. Exercise and vitamins are not good enough to repair spiritual neglect or malnutrition. I am not judging you, I am in the same boat you are. And Jesus says that we can heal ourselves. You say you have faith in Him, but you believe what pharm companies want you to believe.

 

[Melody]

I live with depression every day. I am a single mother of two, my daughters father has a lot of money and is constantly looking for a valid reason to take my daughter away from me, even though I never keep him from seeing her. He wants full custody, all the time. The man I truly love is far away, going through a lot of things and I can't help him. Suicidal thoughts do not just come from feelings of utter despair. Sometimes it comes from just bein tired. Tired of working 'against' so much.

Physical illness and disease are symptoms of a weak, or damaged spirit. Exercise and vitamins are not good enough to repair spiritual neglect or malnutrition. I am not judging you, I am in the same boat you are. And Jesus says that we can heal ourselves. You say you have faith in Him, but you believe what pharm companies want you to believe.

From what you say, you have situational depression which is totally different. In such cases, meds may make the difference between someone who becomes so depressed they see no way up and kill themself before getting help and "getting by" while they're also getting counseling to find ways to deal with the situation. This is not the type of depression I have. That's not to say it's worse than yours...just different and requiring different treatment.

So you're saying that a weak, damaged spirit is the cause of diabetes, sickle cell anemia, AIDS, etc.?

Yes, Jesus says we can heal ourselves and God gave us a brain to use reason and logic. I don't believe what pharm companies want me to believe. I listen to my doctor, get opinions and feedback through other sources and then make a rational decision.

Not taking meds and just expecting God to heal me reminds me of the joke about the guy sitting on his house roof while the flood waters steadily rose around him. The whole time he was praying to God to save him, several would be rescuers came by and to each, the offer of help was refused because "God would save" him. When the flood waters finally overtook the house and the man drowned, he found himself in front of St. Peter and asked why God didn't save him since he was so faithful and believed completely. St. Peter said, "Well, He sent you three rescuers and you sent them all away. What more did you want?"

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

From what you say, you have situational depression which is totally different. In such cases, meds may make the difference between someone who becomes so depressed they see no way up and kill themself before getting help and "getting by" while they're also getting counseling to find ways to deal with the situation. This is not the type of depression I have. That's not to say it's worse than yours...just different and requiring different treatment.

So you're saying that a weak, damaged spirit is the cause of diabetes, sickle cell anemia, AIDS, etc.?

Yes, Jesus says we can heal ourselves and God gave us a brain to use reason and logic. I don't believe what pharm companies want me to believe. I listen to my doctor, get opinions and feedback through other sources and then make a rational decision.

Not taking meds and just expecting God to heal me reminds me of the joke about the guy sitting on his house roof while the flood waters steadily rose around him. The whole time he was praying to God to save him, several would be rescuers came by and to each, the offer of help was refused because "God would save" him. When the flood waters finally overtook the house and the man drowned, he found himself in front of St. Peter and asked why God didn't save him since he was so faithful and believed completely. St. Peter said, "Well, He sent you three rescuers and you sent them all away. What more did you want?"

Yes, I do believe that all sickness is ultimately caused by the condition of the spirit. And I have said before that there is nothing wrong with making a choice when you have all the facts, not just one sided facts. I posted the joke you are referring to, and I do know what you are saying.

I am not trying to say that we must have an 'all or nothing' attitude about this. We have to find a balance. It is one thing to let man 'aide' in the healing. It is another thing to depend on man for the healing.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]AIDS miracle cure in Uganda[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Uganda more than 400 people have been cured of AIDS and the HIV-virus through prayer since January 1994, according Omega a programme made by the Evangelical Broadcasting Company, in Holland. Uganda is one of the countries hardest hit by AIDS with some 40 per cent of the population being infected. A whole generation will be wiped out; grandparents are taking over the role of parents to their grandchildren, their own children having fallen victim to AIDS. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A young girl, Anna Catherina, began suffering from headaches, stomach pains and a severe skin rash. A doctor diagnosed AIDS and she was sent to the local AIDS-clinic. But "because God was not present in the clinic" she did not go there but went instead, although she was not religious, to the church and began praying hard. She was tested twice and both times she was found to be zero-positive -- she had AIDS. Although four subsequent tests proved that she was infected she continued to believe and pray. It came as no surprise to her then that the seventh and eighth test showed that she was zero-negative -- totally cured of AIDS. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An independent Dutch doctor, Elly Vooys, who went to Kampala with the camera crew said that there is no medical explanation for such healing. The relevant documentation kept by the hospital concerned showed that six tests indicated that the girl was suffering from AIDS, she was quite clearly zero-positive and that the subsequent two tests showed her to be zero-negative. She was tested using the "Elisa-method" a well-known test which has an accuracy rating of 99.9 per cent. Case documents on Anna Catherina attest to the fact that she fully recovered from all AIDS-related symptoms. For instance, she had previously suffered greatly from painful swelling all over her skin; both the swellings and the pain have completely vanished. Only here and there had faint scars remained. [/font]

 

[Melody]

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]AIDS miracle cure in Uganda[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Uganda more than 400 people have been cured of AIDS and the HIV-virus through prayer since January 1994, according Omega a programme made by the Evangelical [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]

I never said that faith couldn't cure. I know it can....but if I use the reasoning of your earlier posts that disease and illness are symptoms of a damaged spirit, if their faith was enough, they never would've gotten AIDS.

 

[Melody]

I am not trying to say that we must have an 'all or nothing' attitude about this. We have to find a balance. It is one thing to let man 'aide' in the healing. It is another thing to depend on man for the healing.

I will agree with you on this and many of us do seek...and have...that balance (and it includes medication).

 

[michel]

Antidepressants shown to be useless in helping adolescents, while suicides abound

The list of suicides and the incidence of violent behavior by children taking antidepressant drugs continues to grow, and yet both the FDA and the manufacturers of these drugs continue to deny any link whatsoever. Realize there is absolutely no scientific evidence showing that these antidepressant drugs do anything at all to improve the mental state of children taking them. There is simply no evidence of this, despite all of the studies that have been paid for by drug companies in an effort to find some tiny shred of positive news they could take to the FDA as "proof" that these drugs were useful. If anything, the drug companies' own clinical trials have only proven that antidepressant drugs cause violent behavior and suicides, not that they improve the mental state of children taking them.

The list of suicides and the incidence of violent behavior by children taking antidepressant drugs continues to grow, and yet both the FDA and the manufacturers of these drugs continue to deny any link whatsoever. Realize there is absolutely no scientific evidence showing that these antidepressant drugs do anything at all to improve the mental state of children taking them. There is simply no evidence of this, despite all of the studies that have been paid for by drug companies in an effort to find some tiny shred of positive news they could take to the FDA as "proof" that these drugs were useful. If anything, the drug companies' own clinical trials have only proven that antidepressant drugs cause violent behavior and suicides, not that they improve the mental state of children taking them.

All of this is a moot point anyway, since mental depression is not caused by a brain chemical imbalance in the first place. Imbalanced brain chemistry is simply the resulting symptom of a deeper cause: nutritional imbalances, lack of sunlight, and lack of physical fitness, primarily.

And yet the very idea that treating or reversing clinical depression could be as easy as changing a person's nutrition, exposure to healing sunlight, and physical exercise habits is considered heresy by a most doctors and the vast majority of psychiatrists. Why? Because if you admit that a patient can heal themselves by altering their own dietary habits, you take away the ability for doctors to live such extravagant lifestyles.

Unfortunately, too many people turn to drugs in search of a magic bullet solution that does not require them to take the courageous step of owning their outcome. Too many people are reluctant to take responsibility for the results caused by their own actions, and they therefore resist making changes in their lifestyle that would require effort or risk. It's easier to go to a doctor, give them the power to solve your problems, and then take a magic pill once a day for the rest of your life. That's the easy way out, it seems, but in reality it is neither easy nor is it any way out: it doesn't address the core problem at all, which is for most people nothing more complicated than the fact that they aren't leading a healthy lifestyle in the first place, and therefore they aren't happy about how they feel.

You can call it clinical depression, and certainly there are many doctors and psychiatrists who would be happy to diagnose it as such, but in fact it is nothing more than a person who is suffering from " Western lifestyle disease" which promotes a high carbohydrate diet, irrational fear of the sun, and avoidance of physical exercise. Be sure to read the related article, Massive medical fraud exposed: pharmaceutical company paid doctors to prescribe drugs and run sham clinical trials.

I am not quite sure why you felt the need to repeat the first paragraph.
There is one point I do want you to consider - and this is one which I KNOW to be true - I cannot quote you a source for you to verify what I am saying, but I am happy that I am telling you something accurate.

Suicides are rarely commited when the patient is very depressed - if that sounds strange, think on this : one sympton of really bad depression is the total inability to motivate oneself.

Apart from my own experiences, I have been trained in the subject - when I helped man suicide chat lines.

The real danger of a patient actually trying to kill himself is when the depression starts 'lifting' - so your conclusion that Prozac is making people commit suicide is totally flawed IN YOUR INTERPRETATION of it; the fault is on the part of supporters and carers/and or physicians - the patient is actually being helped by the drug, but that help, without support is dangerous. Please believe me, I do know what I am talking about.

 

[Truthtraveler]

Psychotropic medications most certainly do block the path to deeper mental health!

Although psych meds can have a value in helping to stabilize some people in the short term, they ultimately block the greater path to healing. This is convenient for many because this path is SO PAINFUL!

I flesh out my point of view in an essay in my website, if you're interested:

PSYCH MEDS STUNT EMOTIONAL GROWTH

 

[Saw11_2000]

ES,
I can pull just as many websites and psychological journal articles to dispute this and just because you don't believe that nobody in the world is able to get through life without depression or suicidal thoughts, doesn't mean it's the case.

I *live* with depression every day and no amount of counseling is going to help because my depression is not caused by *life*. You, and people like you, can sit there in judgment all day and say that my depression can be cured by vitamins, exercise, etc...but it doesn't make it so and I get quite irate at the thought of people who must suffer their whole lives with depression because someone convinces them that if they wanted to be rid of it, they could be. Should an insulin dependent diabetic quit taking insulin because someone believes that proper nutrition and vitamins would negate their need?

Quit sitting in judgment. You have no idea what it's like to suffer from depression for 35 years, knowing there isn't a reason in the world you should be depressed because life is good. I was raised by loving parents in a large loving family. I don't have financial worries. I run a business that I love. I could not ask for a better husband or children. All in all, my life is pretty much perfect....and yet without my medication, I will end up locking myself in my bedroom, refusing to talk to anyone.

Even with the Prozac, I have days where I'm down...just like a normal person, but the difference is, I can handle them. I still get sad about thing. I still get angry about things....but I can handle it. And as you can see I get very angry at the thought of people who live their entire lives in this hellhole because well meaning people convince them that this is just a character defect because they refuse to eat or exercise correctly.

You said it sister.

Oh, and ES, I believe I had read somewhere that quite a few mental disorder cases are a result of the mutation of the human seratonin transport gene, hSERT.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Psychotropic medications most certainly do block the path to deeper mental health!

Although psych meds can have a value in helping to stabilize some people in the short term, they ultimately block the greater path to healing. This is convenient for many because this path is SO PAINFUL!

I flesh out my point of view in an essay in my website, if you're interested:

PSYCH MEDS STUNT EMOTIONAL GROWTH

Umm....okay...the truth is painful....yeah.

 

[Truthtraveler]

I have read this thread and find that my point of view overlaps strongly with EnhancedSpirit’s. I found many of ES’s points to be strong and well thought out. ES, I also happen to like your style to “debating.” I see nothing judgmental about it, and I see it as open-minded.


Melody, you might do well with a little info on the difference between clinical depression and situational depression, because you appear, from what you write, to have very fixed – and not entirely correct – viewpoints on them.


Many people can be clinically depressed – that is, have a diagnosable, long-lasting, severe clinical depressions such as Dysthymic Disorder, any of the types of Major Depression, or Depressive Disorder NOS – that are perfectly treatable by psychotherapy alone. How do I know this? I know this because I have treated them myself. No meds. Now of course, you can easily write me off with your argument I’ve seen you use a few times that says that they really didn’t have a “clinical depression” at all, rather, a "situational depression" (such as is clinically diagnosable as an adjustment disorder).

But you are not correct here, and while you might get a few therapists and psychiatrists who would agree with you - and certainly more than a few drug companies and their reps - you’re going to get A LOT in the mental health field who will not agree with you. I’ve seen too many people coming in with long-lasting CLINICAL DEPRESSIONS who perfectly well fit all the conventional psychiatric criteria and who really do respond to psychotherapy alone. Psychotherapy is not like meds. There’s complete variation. Just because I can help someone get over their depression doesn’t mean the next therapist can do it – and there have been some patients I have not been able to help that other therapists have been able to help. Also, I have also seen some fully “clinically depressed” patients who DO NOT respond to many of the different varieties of medications – and even electroconvulsive therapy – and they then get labeled with serious diagnoses such as “refractory depression,” etc., and yet WHO DO respond to my style of psychotherapy. Interesting, eh?


Write me off if you wish, but just realize that there’s someone out there who has seen things that do not fit your experience. From what you say, meds turned a light on for you. Perhaps other things might have turned on a different light had fate dealt you a different hand. And maybe a brighter light. You never know.


Also, because you mentioned it: I’ve had the opportunity to work with some people who are fully schizophrenic – and diagnosed by several different, independent clinicians of various persuasions - who are not on any anti-psychotics, and who, over a long period of time and a huge amount of inner work, healed from schizophrenia. No more delusions, no more hallucinations, no more bizarre behavior, etc. This idea that schizophrenia is purely biological and only treatable by meds – that is simply NOT TRUE. It is, however, true that many therapists don't have the first idea where to start in terms of treating a non-medicated schizophrenic, and there are many of these potential patients that I would not feel comfortable working with without meds - at least at the beginning of treatment until their lives became more stabilized, but I see the healing potential in many schizophrenics - WITHOUT MEDS!


And I also believe much of what EnhancedSpirit said about the spiritual component of all illness. I believe it all begins in the aura, and is a manifestation of deeper spiritual ills. Depression too.


So I say, EnhancedSpirit, ROCK ON! And I say, Melody, KEEP AN OPEN MIND!