men living beyond 200 years, fiction? or bad interpretation?

[iholdit]

Interesting even though we currently know there were centuries of people in existence before the Hebrews. A large portion of their "history" is derived from the writings and oral stories of those who came before them.

The hebrews as a people were part of the canaanites. It would be similar to living in the u.s. where there are seperate states and the people have different beliefs yet they are all part of the same general area.

To say other people came before them isnt really accurate, the hebrews would have existed along with other people who later formed civilizations in the area like sumer and egypt. I believe they would have witnessed the same type of events at the same timeframe.

The sumerians had a written language first so its not surprising these events would have been recorded by them previous to hebrews or canaanites recording them, but that doesnt mean it wasnt witnessed by all of them around the same time.

It would be like saying the native americans stole the story of christopher columbus from the europeans because the europeans wrote it down first. Yet we believe the native americans would have known christopher columbus around the same time as europeans did.

 

[outhouse]

The hebrews as a people were part of the canaanites. It would be similar to living in the u.s. where there are seperate states and the people have different beliefs yet they are all part of the same general area.

To say other people came before them isnt really accurate, the hebrews would have existed along with other people who later formed civilizations in the area like sumer and egypt. I believe they would have witnessed the same type of events at the same timeframe.

The sumerians had a written language first so its not surprising these events would have been recorded by them previous to hebrews or canaanites recording them, but that doesnt mean it wasnt witnessed by all of them around the same time.

It would be like saying the native americans stole the story of christopher columbus from the europeans because the europeans wrote it down first. Yet we believe the native americans would have known christopher columbus around the same time as europeans did.

simply prove your statement.

if your going to make whacky odball statemenst that make untterly no sense you need to back them with links.

fantasy and imagination does not count

your material is all wrong

 

[The Wizard]

There are many examples of humanity living beyond 200 years in the OT

Im not sure if it is fiction or interpretation errors.

Ive heard a few on the interpretation side or confusion after oral tradition.

Most say its just fiction because ancient hebrews didnt know any better.

whats the reality of it????? we know people didnt live that long ever!

Wasn't the last American who died like 114? I mean, were only talking about another 86 years here. But, I don't think most current manmade lifestyles, envirements, diets and activities support so much longevity. To add, the Earth has created the prevention and cures for literally everything. Yet, alternative medicine and herbs and such have been completely stomped out of most places to favor the health care industries. There are a million examples of it. Like vitamin B17. You have to get it from Mexico. Note, this is a vitamin were talking about. Living past 200 years in the future or that it occurred in the past does not sound like a stretch to me.. IMO.

 

[iholdit]

simply prove your statement.

if your going to make whacky odball statemenst that make untterly no sense you need to back them with links.

fantasy and imagination does not count

your material is all wrong

Arent you tired of me proving you wrong yet?

"Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex, which in turn developed from a fusion of Harifian hunter gatherers with Pre-Pottery Neolthic B farming cultures, practicing animal domestication, during the 6,200 BC climatic crisis."
"The various Canaanite nations of the Bronze to Iron Age are mentioned in the Bible, Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts."
Canaan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see the canaanite(along with hebrew) people would have existed before writing was used in sumer. They were also involved with sumer as can be seen by them being mentioned in mesopotamian and ancient egyptian texts. This shows they would all have been present for the same events in the same general area.

Are you happy now?

 

[iholdit]

Wasn't the last American who died like 114? I mean, were only talking about another 86 years here. But, I don't think most current manmade lifestyles, envirements, diets and activities support so much longevity. To add, the Earth has created the prevention and cures for literally everything. Yet, alternative medicine and herbs and such have been completely stomped out of most places to favor the health care industries. There are a million examples of it. Like vitamin B17. You have to get it from Mexico. Note, this is a vitamin were talking about. Living past 200 years in the future or that it occurred in the past does not sound like a stretch to me.. IMO.

I agree.

 

[outhouse]

Wasn't the last American who died like 114? I mean, were only talking about another 86 years here. But, I don't think most current manmade lifestyles, envirements, diets and activities support so much longevity. To add, the Earth has created the prevention and cures for literally everything. Yet, alternative medicine and herbs and such have been completely stomped out of most places to favor the health care industries. There are a million examples of it. Like vitamin B17. You have to get it from Mexico. Note, this is a vitamin were talking about. Living past 200 years in the future or that it occurred in the past does not sound like a stretch to me.. IMO.

the average life span right now is roughly 78, and you think a number never hit ever sounds like its not a stretch??????


the odds of getting hit by lightning the day you won the lottery after being elected president of the USA with no teeth are far better then your proposition

 

[iholdit]

the average life span right now is roughly 78, and you think a number never hit ever sounds like its not a stretch??????


the odds of getting hit by lightning the day you won the lottery after being elected president of the USA with no teeth are far better then your proposition

You keep talking about average lifespan as if that makes a difference. You should be looking at maximum lifespan. It is perfectly reasonable that with the right circumstances(diet etc.) a human could live to 200 years old. Not all humans or the average human, but a human or a few humans could live that long.

 

[outhouse]

Arent you tired of me proving you wrong yet?

"Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex, which in turn developed from a fusion of Harifian hunter gatherers with Pre-Pottery Neolthic B farming cultures, practicing animal domestication, during the 6,200 BC climatic crisis."
"The various Canaanite nations of the Bronze to Iron Age are mentioned in the Bible, Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts."
Canaan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see the canaanite(along with hebrew) people would have existed before writing was used in sumer. They were also involved with sumer as can be seen by them being mentioned in mesopotamian and ancient egyptian texts. This shows they would all have been present for the same events in the same general area.

Are you happy now?

ill give you credit your trying to make a point.

my problem is that you are trying to say hebrews existed early on because canaanites did.

this is not the case. this link shows hebrews origins going back roughly about 1020 BCE in that area. [pre-monarchic period]

Hebrews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hebrews (Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, Tiberian ʿIḇrîm, ʿIḇriyyîm; Modern Hebrew ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim) is an ethnonym used in the Hebrew Bible. It is mostly taken as synonymous with Israelites, especially in the pre-monarchic period when they were still nomadic

but in some instances it may also be used in a wider sense, referring to the Semitic nomads known to the Egyptians as Habiru or Shasu during the Egyptian Empire on the eve of the Bronze Age collapse


NOW the ages above only go back to about 1250 BCE


this is no where near the origins on ancient egypt and sumerians.

Are you happy now?

i dont get happy by teaching you history

 

[outhouse]

You keep talking about average lifespan as if that makes a difference. You should be looking at maximum lifespan. It is perfectly reasonable that with the right circumstances(diet etc.) a human could live to 200 years old. Not all humans or the average human, but a human or a few humans could live that long.

look your getting ignorant

no person ever has lived that long period, please,.,,,,,, come back to reality.


the bible stretches the truth into imaginary fiction, ! refuse to

 

[The Wizard]

the average life span right now is roughly 78, and you think a number never hit ever sounds like its not a stretch??????


the odds of getting hit by lightning the day you won the lottery after being elected president of the USA with no teeth are far better then your proposition

Ok. But, that was not a proposition. In the future I don't think it will be a stretch. Like I said, there's only an 84 year difference there. There are many things about past cultures that are also not known. I wasn't talking about the present.

 

[outhouse]

There are many things about past cultures that are also not known

I can tell you one thing for certain about the past.

life spans were cut in half on average


i can tell you with %100 certainty that the bible was wrong with places ages on mythical charactors.

the bible was wrong about everything in genesis as it is not a literal fable or any kind of accurate history nor was it ment to be anything other then fables for good morals.

so lets move on away from the myths of the past and try and better understand the real history at hand.

 

[iholdit]

ill give you credit your trying to make a point.

my problem is that you are trying to say hebrews existed early on because canaanites did.

this is not the case. this link shows hebrews origins going back roughly about 1020 BCE in that area. [pre-monarchic period]

Hebrews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hebrews (Hebrew: ????? or ??????, Tiberian ?I?rîm, ?I?riyyîm; Modern Hebrew ?Ivrim, ?Ivriyyim) is an ethnonym used in the Hebrew Bible. It is mostly taken as synonymous with Israelites, especially in the pre-monarchic period when they were still nomadic

but in some instances it may also be used in a wider sense, referring to the Semitic nomads known to the Egyptians as Habiru or Shasu during the Egyptian Empire on the eve of the Bronze Age collapse


NOW the ages above only go back to about 1250 BCE


this is no where near the origins on ancient egypt and sumerians.



i dont get happy by teaching you history

You are certainly not teaching me history lol. The argument was whether hebrews as a people existed and not whether hebrew writings etc. existed. Hebrews were canaanites therefore they would have existed at the time of sumer and previous to writing existing there.

My point, as i had already made, was that if you are looking for hebrew writing etc. you are looking in the wrong place. The canaanites would have witnessed the same events as sumerians and ancient egyptians and the hebrew PEOPLE were part of the canaanites. Unless maybe you are trying to argue that hebrew people didnt exist and then they just miraculously just appeared amongst the canaanites at some point?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The case seems to be that the Hebrews seperated themselves out from among the Canaanites at some point and called themselves Israelites. If you're going to argue we should take the Hebrew Bible as history, you can forget it, because most of it wasn't written until the time of Ezra, whilst other civilizations you're speaking of have texts much older.

The Bible itself proves that much of it wasn't written when it says it was. Example: Dueteronomy wasn't written by Moses, because it gives the account of his death and says that "until this day" his sheplecure has never been found.

Joshua and Judges are similar in their claims, showing these texts were all written much later.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The hebrews as a people were part of the canaanites. It would be similar to living in the u.s. where there are seperate states and the people have different beliefs yet they are all part of the same general area.

To say other people came before them isnt really accurate, the hebrews would have existed along with other people who later formed civilizations in the area like sumer and egypt. I believe they would have witnessed the same type of events at the same timeframe.

Don't get me wrong. I get it and I'm not really arguing against it. Yes the Hebrews have always been a people before they were called Hebrews and I suspect the various tribes of people mingled back in the day before the start of their religion. This is what I meant by (came before).

Their stories were most likely from surrounding cultures and passed down orally before being written. We can tell by the early influence when researching the Sumerians and others. The creation story and flood stories are very similar. We have the privilege today to know that if a flood happened it was most likely local flooding but never was it global and on the scale as indicated in the scriptures so there's no need to take that literally. The same goes for the creation story. We know this was impossible because of the evidence we now have. There's nothing wrong with the borrowing of stories as long as it is recognized that they were indeed borrowed and reworked. The idea of men living for centuries is most likely an exaggeration.

 

[iholdit]

Don't get me wrong. I get it and I'm not really arguing against it. Yes the Hebrews have always been a people before they were called Hebrews and I suspect the various tribes of people mingled back in the day before the start of their religion. This is what I meant by (came before).

Their stories were most likely from surrounding cultures and passed down orally before being written. We can tell by the early influence when researching the Sumerians and others. The creation story and flood stories are very similar. We have the privilege today to know that if a flood happened it was most likely local flooding but never was it global and on the scale as indicated in the scriptures so there's no need to take that literally. The same goes for the creation story. We know this was impossible because of the evidence we now have. There's nothing wrong with the borrowing of stories as long as it is recognized that they were indeed borrowed and reworked. The idea of men living for centuries is most likely an exaggeration.

My point is that they were a part of the surrounding cultures. They wouldnt have borrowed stories but instead they would have witnessed along with the surrounding cultures, the events that took place. Clearly these events would have been passed down orally until they were written but that doesnt make them borrowed.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

My point is that they were a part of the surrounding cultures.

I agree.

They wouldnt have borrowed stories but instead they would have witnessed along with the surrounding cultures, the events that took place.

I disagree. While the flood stories are similar they do vary. Much was changed in the genesis version. This is a "borrowing" and and reworking of the story to try and make it ones own. It's clear that the creation of man did not happen yet the biblical version is told as if there was a fly on the wall writing down the events. No. There were no others to document this event. But the story itself stems from Sumerian writings where later the Canaanites/Hebrews took the story and reworked it. The same goes for the flood story. We do know, in our day and time, the creation story and the flood story is just that...a story....where multiple tribe/people took the story and rewrote it to suite their needs or understanding.

Clearly these events would have been passed down orally until they were written but that doesnt make them borrowed.

Sure they could be borrowed. You may be working off the assumption that the information being passed down was accurate or even true. We have the benefit today to know they weren't. This makes the oral telling inaccurate.

 

[outhouse]

I holdit you dont make any sense at all.

because hebrews were there and existed, shows that they had ancestors in that area.

no one is denying that.



early semetic tribes were not hebrews though.


most of your post is imagination to fit pieces in your head to rationalize what you dont know about history.

 

[The Wizard]

From: outhouse:

I can tell you one thing for certain about the past.

life spans were cut in half on average


i can tell you with %100 certainty that the bible was wrong with places ages on mythical charactors.

the bible was wrong about everything in genesis as it is not a literal fable or any kind of accurate history nor was it ment to be anything other then fables for good morals.

so lets move on away from the myths of the past and try and better understand the real history at hand.



The Wizard: Oh, I see, but I wasn't really referring to a religious doctrine. I was just talking in general per say.

 

[iholdit]

I agree.




I disagree. While the flood stories are similar they do vary. Much was changed in the genesis version. This is a "borrowing" and and reworking of the story to try and make it ones own. It's clear that the creation of man did not happen yet the biblical version is told as if there was a fly on the wall writing down the events. No. There were no others to document this event. But the story itself stems from Sumerian writings where later the Canaanites/Hebrews took the story and reworked it. The same goes for the flood story. We do know, in our day and time, the creation story and the flood story is just that...a story....where multiple tribe/people took the story and rewrote it to suite their needs or understanding.
Sure they could be borrowed. You may be working off the assumption that the information being passed down was accurate or even true. We have the benefit today to know they weren't. This makes the oral telling inaccurate.

You dont really have the benefit of "knowing" they are not true accounts but this is a whole other topic.

As far as borrowed, just because the accounts are somewhat different doesnt mean they were borrowed. If you and i both witness something from different vantage points, we would tell the story of what happened differently in the details but the general idea would be similar. If we then told the story to our children and they told their children and so on, until one of your childrens children wrote it down. Then several generations later one of my descendants wrote it down. Both stories would be different in details, yet that doesnt mean my descendants borrowed your story and reworked it.

 

[iholdit]

I holdit you dont make any sense at all.
because hebrews were there and existed, shows that they had ancestors in that area.
no one is denying that.
early semetic tribes were not hebrews though.
most of your post is imagination to fit pieces in your head to rationalize what you dont know about history.

They were not hebrews in terms of they didnt have modern hebrew writing etc. but you admit they had ancestors who were there during the time of sumer and ancient egypt correct?

So the hebrews ancestors would have been able to observe the same events as those cultures and would be able to pass the story of those events down to their descendants. Those descendants would eventually become the hebrew people with hebrew writing etc. This would mean the hebrews would have gotten the story of those events from the oral tradition of their ancestors and not from the sumerian or ancient egyptian writings like you seem to believe.