outhouse
Atheistically
its not an oracle lol
its ancients mans fiction of previous pagan mythology with hebrew imagination, nothing more.
your view is simply pitifull
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men living beyond 200 years, fiction? or bad interpretation?
- Thread starter outhouse
- Start date
its not an oracle lol
its ancients mans fiction of previous pagan mythology with hebrew imagination, nothing more.
your view is simply pitifull
Lmao! You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Oh wait i forgot you were there from the creation of the earth to witness it all. Please learn more about where the hebrews came from and who they are (and the pagans for that matter) before you start saying things.
No, i honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Who are the "pagans" you are referring to, because they cant be actual "pagans" unless you dont know "pagan" history.
How did the hebrews not exist during the time of whatever "pagans" you are talking about? Do you mean modern hebrew culture didnt exist or do you mean actual people of hebrew lineage didnt exist?
outhouse
Atheistically
everyone before hebrews worshipped pagan gods, egypt and sumerian cultures were not monotheistic. [except for 1 generation of egyptions]
where do you think the hebrew culture came from, do a little searching, little is known before 1000BC other then the myths of the bible which are not nor have ever been accurate historical documents. Some can be traced beyond that by a few hundred year with certainty. Beyond that nothing can be said with certainty as there are no records of any kind.
the oldest hebrew writing is a pottery shard roughly 1000BC
No, the sumerians didnt worship "pagan" gods they worshiped sumerian gods. The egyptians didnt worship "pagan" gods they worshiped egyptian gods. Pagan is its own culture but is sometimes used as a general term to describe "gods" outside of ones own religion.
Hebrews were part of the canaanites so they existed at the same time as sumerians and egyptians. If you are looking for when hebrews existed by modern hebrew writing then you are looking in the wrong place. You need to do some more research.
outhouse
Atheistically
please get a education before you speak, you embarrassyourself almost every post.
Paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mythology
- Aztec mythology
- Armenian mythology
- Celtic mythology
- Christian mythology
- Chinese mythology
- Egyptian mythology
- Greek mythology
- Hindu mythology
- Islamic mythology
- Japanese mythology
- Jewish mythology
- Maya mythology
- Mesopotamian mythology
- Norse mythology
- Roman mythology
- Slavic mythology
- List of mythologies
This box: view · talk · edit
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term, typically used to refer to polytheistic religious traditions.
In the Christian perspective the term has been used historically to encompass all nonAbrahamic religions
outhouse
Atheistically
why here
you might find some good info. thios guy did some good work. it also the link i found the translation errors in
How old was Noah and Methuselah?
gnostic
The Lost One
I am not saying that you are wrong; I simply just wanted to know your sources.
The Septuagint is the old bible that we have, and it is 950 years for Noah (Gen 9:29). The Targums, 950 years.
Almost all English translations, from KJV to the modern translations (referring to the 20th century), like NIV, NASB, etc, are based on the Masoretic Texts, so 950 years. The Vulgate Bible, 950 years.
The Book of Jubilees (x 16), 950 years.
The Septuagint is the old bible that we have, and it is 950 years for Noah (Gen 9:29). The Targums, 950 years.
Almost all English translations, from KJV to the modern translations (referring to the 20th century), like NIV, NASB, etc, are based on the Masoretic Texts, so 950 years. The Vulgate Bible, 950 years.
The Book of Jubilees (x 16), 950 years.
yourself almost every post.
Paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mythology
See also
- Aztec mythology
- Armenian mythology
- Celtic mythology
- Christian mythology
- Chinese mythology
- Egyptian mythology
- Greek mythology
- Hindu mythology
- Islamic mythology
- Japanese mythology
- Jewish mythology
- Maya mythology
- Mesopotamian mythology
- Norse mythology
- Roman mythology
- Slavic mythology
- List of mythologies
This box: view · talk · edit
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term, typically used to refer to polytheistic religious traditions.
In the Christian perspective the term has been used historically to encompass all non?Abrahamic religions
Lmao!!! Look at the first sentence of the wikipedia article. "It is primarily used in HISTORICAL CONTEXT, referring to GRECO ROMAN POLYTHEISM".(emphasis mine).
We were talking about the history of hebrews and you said pagans came before hebrews. This is a false statement in historical context, unless you believe greco roman polytheism existed before the hebrews?
Like i said do some more research. Im guessing you looked up canaanites and saw you were wrong which is why you didnt comment on that or what?
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outhouse
Atheistically
I understand what the bible says, the historian is using the real noah in which the story is based off of from the euphrates flood.
since we dont even know anything about a historical noah, [there is no historical noah] his age is as open for guessing
gnostic
The Lost One
I don't think there was ever historical Noah. Whether there was one or not, and whether there was a Flood or not, it is not the point is it?
Your OP post is about the age of these patriarchs, of both before and after the Flood.
I agreed with you on the issue that long-lived (200+) biblical figures are not possible. I personally believe that it is simply mythological representation, if not errors, that the ages were exaggerated. That's the nature of myths, exaggeration of stories, whether they be written or oral traditions.
It is quite possible for people to live to 120+, but they are rare cases.
There are no evidences to support that people were living over 200 years. But the average ages in the 3rd millennium BC were definitely shorter than the present, in which case, Noah was said to live on the 2nd half of the 3rd millennium.
But the age factor is also dependent on environment. It is quite possible for to live beyond the age of 60, with good living. As it is the case with Sargon of Akkad (or the Great), said to live to the age of 85. Rameses II of the 13th century BC, ruled Egypt for a long period, and died probably at 93 (I think).
In any case, back to case of Noah. The non-existent of this real Noah you are talking about, would not be possible to put age to him. All we have is the creation myth found in the Genesis that point his age to 950.
The only real Noah, is the original Noah, the Sumerian hero, Ziusudra, or his other variants (like Atrahasis or Utnapishtim) became a minor god, so his age is undetermined because of his immortality, but his father, supposedly Ubara-Tutu of Shruppuk, was said to have ruled for 18600 years, according to the Sumerian King List. So the real Noah (again, referring to Ziusudra) is just as exaggerated as the bible.
Your OP post is about the age of these patriarchs, of both before and after the Flood.
I agreed with you on the issue that long-lived (200+) biblical figures are not possible. I personally believe that it is simply mythological representation, if not errors, that the ages were exaggerated. That's the nature of myths, exaggeration of stories, whether they be written or oral traditions.
It is quite possible for people to live to 120+, but they are rare cases.
There are no evidences to support that people were living over 200 years. But the average ages in the 3rd millennium BC were definitely shorter than the present, in which case, Noah was said to live on the 2nd half of the 3rd millennium.
But the age factor is also dependent on environment. It is quite possible for to live beyond the age of 60, with good living. As it is the case with Sargon of Akkad (or the Great), said to live to the age of 85. Rameses II of the 13th century BC, ruled Egypt for a long period, and died probably at 93 (I think).
In any case, back to case of Noah. The non-existent of this real Noah you are talking about, would not be possible to put age to him. All we have is the creation myth found in the Genesis that point his age to 950.
The only real Noah, is the original Noah, the Sumerian hero, Ziusudra, or his other variants (like Atrahasis or Utnapishtim) became a minor god, so his age is undetermined because of his immortality, but his father, supposedly Ubara-Tutu of Shruppuk, was said to have ruled for 18600 years, according to the Sumerian King List. So the real Noah (again, referring to Ziusudra) is just as exaggerated as the bible.
outhouse
Atheistically
correct
nope it is not
this is my whole point of this thread, trying to find the historicity of that statement.
correct if one only looks for biblical noah, if one places noah as the real historical person Ziusudra one can establish 83.
noah is based off of ziusudra in my opinion as well as a few scholars like the link i posted
except for the point that they did make a translation error's if one follows the ziusudra hypothysis.
If we get down to it, i'm finding translation error's in the beginning and then fiction keeping it alive because they believed these early fables and didnt blink an eye to a possible error
outhouse
Atheistically
BUT
Noah's Ark and the Ziusudra Epic - home page noahs-ark-flood.com
Was Noah's flood story fiction or fact?
Much of the flood story was fiction, but there was a real river flood on which the original flood legend was based. Ziusudra, the Sumerian Noah was listed in the Sumerian King List and therefore may have been a real person, but there is no hard evidence that Noah/Ziusudra existed
Did people live to be more than 900 years before the flood?
No. That was an ancient mistranslation of archaic numbers. Noah lived to be 83.
Noah's Ark and the Ziusudra Epic - home page noahs-ark-flood.com
Was Noah's flood story fiction or fact?
Much of the flood story was fiction, but there was a real river flood on which the original flood legend was based. Ziusudra, the Sumerian Noah was listed in the Sumerian King List and therefore may have been a real person, but there is no hard evidence that Noah/Ziusudra existed
Did people live to be more than 900 years before the flood?
No. That was an ancient mistranslation of archaic numbers. Noah lived to be 83.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
outhouse,
When God created Adam and Eve they were perfect, Gen 1:3, Deut 32:4.
When Adam and Eve sinned against God they became imperfect, they had a bad flaw, because of which they started to die. We notice that at first there was only close relatives to marry, so there were no defects caused by close relationships.
Because the early people were close to the creation of Adam, who was meant to live forever, they lived for much longer times that we live today.
In those early times they counted months and years the same as today, except they usually counted months as 30 days. Since they depended on crops, they noticed that the thirty day months soon put them at a wrong time to plant and harvest, so they added days every few years. Consider Gen 8:22, which speaks about planting and harvest, Summer and Winter. From this we know that their years were from harvest to harvest.
Now, some people have come up with the idea that the Bible must mean months when it says years pertaining to life spans. This cannot be so, brcause it would make some fathers just a few months old. Notice Gen 5: 15 where Mahalalel leved 65years and begat Jared. If these were months, Mahalalel would have been only 5years and 5 months old when becoming a father. Same with Cainan, verse 12, and Enoch, verse 21.
So, because the people who lived close to Adam's and Eve's time were very close to the time when mankind was perfect, they lived much longer time than we do.
Those times were really nothing, for God's purpose is for mankind to live forever.
When Jesus come back to earth to set up his Kingdom, the death we inherited from Adam will end, Rev 21:3,4. That time id very near!!!
There is absolute evidence mankind far predates the time frame the Bible gives a casual surface reader for man's existence on this planet in physical terms. Hard evidence suggests at least 30,000 years and I'm of the opinion it is millions of years we have been around. The life Christ shall bring upon His return is the life Adam had but lost. The best approximation of what that "life" was is the life of our societal body given to us by our founding fathers. We were made sovereigns under God's Law. We were given "life", "liberty" and "the pursuit of happiness". However, our churches (Eve) and our politics (Adam) have become corrupted in such a way that we are losing our liberties and we are no longer sovereigns. We are becomming slaves more and more to a fallen beast system of governance. Our spirit of creativity, industry, innovation, higher education, etc. is all being replaced with welfarism, socialism, materialism, hedonism, etc. The return of Christ shall be the return of our great founding ideals when this great nation, which means Kingdom of Heaven, shall be reborn from its own ashes free of those who would corrupt it again. This society is what lives for the duration of Adam's lifespan because that is who and what Adam is in the full sense. Those ages are the lifespans of particular societal bodies or civilizations. And, these societies go through cyclical patterns of creation and dissolution over and over again. There have been many Christs and Adams in our past and there will be many more in our future.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Interesting even though we currently know there were centuries of people in existence before the Hebrews. A large portion of their "history" is derived from the writings and oral stories of those who came before them.
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