Merciful God?? I think not.

[Runewolf1973]

Originally Posted by roli
What kind of mindless,void of volition droids would we be like if all he did was pull the strings, ...
How would you have turned out as a child if your parents fixed every problem, prevented every painful experience, gave you everything you thought you wanted.
Please answer this question before you rant on about God and all his short comings and soc alled failures

As parents, we don't have to fix every problem. "God" doesn't have to pull ALL the strings, but in that same regard, "God" should not destroy us if WE pull one wrong one. Rather than giving us the death sentence, would not it be better to just give us a slap on the wrist first? Don't cut my hands off just because I stole once from the Garden of Eden. We need to learn from our mistakes. But we should not be mortaly punished for a first time offence. I don't believe in beating my children to death for doing something wrong.

Even humans themselves are more forgiving than you're glory of a God. If us petty humans can think of better ways of dealiing with world issues, why could not an ALL powerful God think of something better? Or at least something slightly less vengeful and destructive?

 

[Runewolf1973]

I find it very interesting.... That period of human history known as the Dark Ages was the same time when the Catholic Church was at the height of it's power. Just like their "God" did, they tried to "cleanse" the world of "evil". If there is so much "evil" in the world now, why does not God send another great flood and destroy us all. He can pick just one single family on this earth, put them into a boat with some animals and destroy all the rest of us "sinners". Are YOU going to be in that boat? Do YOU get a choice in the matter?

Did Noah's ark also happen to contain some Chinese, Native American, African, and other cultural people? Doesn't mention it that I know of. What happened there?

Just asking.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is like taking the easy route to get to "God"....The table is already set, here's your bible, your wine and your soda crackers. Here's the after-dinner church, and there is the altar and the cross. Now go and pray, believe in everything the bible tells you, don't question anything and you get you're "get out of jail free" card.

It seems so easy to just read a big fancy book and believe everything what some preacher tells you just because they say it is so and the bible say's so. But is it really wise? Seems rather naive. If Satan can take any form, then how would we know if that preacher or that book was not just Satan in disguise trying to mislead us?....But...but....it say's in the bible, THIS is the ONLY truth. Either believe it or be punished! "Eat from this Book and do not question it for it is all true....Go ahead, I am the only true God, you can trust me." Sounds an awful lot to me like something both Satan and Christians try to get people to do. Eat words from some mystery book, or eat apples from some mystery tree. I'd rather just pick my own apples and check them for worms myself. Even an animal must learn how to sniff out danger. A rabbit does not blindly walk into cougar's den. Should it have faith that God will be there to "save" it, or should it just be a little more wary of hidden dangers? You decide.

I always thought the path to "God" was a long, narrow one filled with hidden dangers. We must "look before we leap", and question the very ground upon which we walk for lest we faulter. Always being wary of the edge.

Some choose the narrow path to self-discovery, finding answers to questions and finding the real truth behind "God". If you do not question and test the ground upon which you walk, how will you know where not to step? You might just fall right in. As we already know from past experience, God does not always save everyone. He is more likely to "push you in".

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sorry, I'll just stop picking on the Bible and Christians now. It doesn't seem like any one religion or belief has all the answers I seek. I appologize for having brought up such vile questions, but it was all for the process of the "seek and you shall find" ideal. I will continue seeking elsewhere. If christianity is where you're heart leads you, don't let me or anyone else try to stop you from following it. It is all part of finding that path. You know the saying, "All roads lead to Rome.".... well I believe that is true with "God" as well. All paths eventually lead to "God". Some are long and narrow, while others are short and steep. Either way we could fall. We just have to pick ourselves back up and get back on the path. There is really no where else we could possibly go. Unless of course, you still believe in "Satan" and "Hell". But if YOU believe in "Satan", then that is YOUR poison, not mine. I don't believe in "Satan". But I do believe there is good and evil. It is always possible to "prune" the bad limbs off, but you can not make two trees when there was meant to be only ONE. I know well the "Tree of Good and Evil", but I am still searching for the "Tree of Life". Perhaps when we learn to put both good and evil into perfect balance, the "Tree of Life" will make itself known to us. Hmmm....I think I just had another epiphany!

Perhaps I need to go find some quiet place under a wise old tree and just "listen".

 

[Falvlun]

If there is so much "evil" in the world now, why does not God send another great flood and destroy us all. He can pick just one single family on this earth, put them into a boat with some animals and destroy all the rest of us "sinners". Are YOU going to be in that boat? Do YOU get a choice in the matter?

This question can be answered consistently through Christianity. Through Jesus, death was defeated, and a way was created for reconciliation between God and man. A new covenant was made. Thus, God operates in a different mode than he did back in the Old Testament. Additionally, God promised never again to destroy the world by flood, with the rainbow representing this promise.

As for the choice about whether you get into the boat or not, you do have the choice, metaphorically speaking. You can choose to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, or you can choose not to accept Him.

Did Noah's ark also happen to contain some Chinese, Native American, African, and other cultural people? Doesn't mention it that I know of. What happened there?

This too can be answered. It is widely believed by Biblical scholars that each of Ham's three sons went to different geographic locations, and populated them, thus creating the human diversity we see in the world today. As we see in modern times, isolation of a group of organisms leads to a decrease in genetic diversity, and fosters the creation of distinct genetic characteristics unique- or dominant- to that isolated group. Think of all the different breeds of dogs: they can all interbreed with each other, so they are not separate species. But through the manipulation of certain desired traits, all these diverse types of dog were created. Or consider the Galapagos finches: Darwin found these isolated birds to have different beak shapes unique to their location. Genetic diversity was present in the original population of finches, but through environmental stressers, a specific beak type was favored, and the other beak types died out, failing to pass on their genetic information.

Furthermore, if you are to take the Bible at face value, man sprung from two people: Adam and Eve. The genetic diversity present in two people is much smaller than that represented by an entire family, in this case, Noah's. So if the various ethnic groups were present before the flood (which is not necessarily necessary to be true... it is not unlikely that the peoples before the Flood were concentrated in a comparitively small area), then it is no great feat for them to occur after the flood too.

 

[Runewolf1973]

This question can be answered consistently through Christianity. Through Jesus, death was defeated, and a way was created for reconciliation between God and man. A new covenant was made. Thus, God operates in a different mode than he did back in the Old Testament. Additionally, God promised never again to destroy the world by flood, with the rainbow representing this promise.

As for the choice about whether you get into the boat or not, you do have the choice, metaphorically speaking. You can choose to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, or you can choose not to accept Him.


This too can be answered. It is widely believed by Biblical scholars that each of Ham's three sons went to different geographic locations, and populated them, thus creating the human diversity we see in the world today. As we see in modern times, isolation of a group of organisms leads to a decrease in genetic diversity, and fosters the creation of distinct genetic characteristics unique- or dominant- to that isolated group. Think of all the different breeds of dogs: they can all interbreed with each other, so they are not separate species. But through the manipulation of certain desired traits, all these diverse types of dog were created. Or consider the Galapagos finches: Darwin found these isolated birds to have different beak shapes unique to their location. Genetic diversity was present in the original population of finches, but through environmental stressers, a specific beak type was favored, and the other beak types died out, failing to pass on their genetic information.

Furthermore, if you are to take the Bible at face value, man sprung from two people: Adam and Eve. The genetic diversity present in two people is much smaller than that represented by an entire family, in this case, Noah's. So if the various ethnic groups were present before the flood (which is not necessarily necessary to be true... it is not unlikely that the peoples before the Flood were concentrated in a comparitively small area), then it is no great feat for them to occur after the flood too.

I can understand what you are saying about these things. The Bible has many truths in it. That I can not deny. But as much truth as there is in the Bible, I see just as many truths in other beliefs. There was a time when all beliefs were as One I believe.

Perhaps even in the search for ALL truth, there is something false to be found. If there is to be a balance, there can never be ALL truth can there? The Bible speaks of good things, but it also speaks of bad things. But even as there are truths in it, there are also lies in it. Perhaps for every truth there is a lie. I don't know. But it would seem to keep the balance. Good and Evil, you can never have one without the other.

The genetic fostering and creation of new races of humans to me sounds an awful lot like evolution to me. Very similar anyways. I do believe in the concept of Adam and Eve though, but more as a metaphorical concept of the duality of male and female. There are two sides to every story. I believe that "God" is both masculine and feminine in nature. Positive and negative. Yin and yang. Light and dark. Good and evil. Everything has duality to it, but at the same time it is ALL ONE.

 

[Falvlun]

The genetic fostering and creation of new races of humans to me sounds an awful lot like evolution to me. Very similar anyways. I do believe in the concept of Adam and Eve though, but more as a metaphorical concept of the duality of male and female. There are two sides to every story. I believe that "God" is both masculine and feminine in nature. Positive and negative. Yin and yang. Light and dark. Good and evil. Everything has duality to it, but at the same time it is ALL ONE.

Dude. Have you even read any of my previous posts? I think you would have a better insight into my stance if you had done so.

Anyway, I was answering your question-- which was set within the Christian mythology-- in a way that is still completely compatible with Christianity. The question does not really present a contradition of beliefs on the part of Christianity, as some of your previous questions have done (ie, why a benevolent, omnipotent God would aid and abet evil), and it has an answer that is not simply "Well, because God said so!"

As far as "whoa, that sounds like evolution!", it's because it is. Most Christians accept micro-evolution, which is what I was explaining. Micro-evolution is basically impossible to not believe: it can and does occur in our lifetime, such as the light and dark moths in England in response to the Industrial Evolution; and it's effects can be seen, as I have noted, in isolated species or those which experience some environmental stresser.

It is with macro-evolution that most Christian have an issue: that is, how a lizard becomes a bird, or an ape becomes a man. However, the dichotomy between micro and macro evolution is rather fabricated, since macro evolution is simply a series of small changes (micro-evolution) over a really long time.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Dude. Have you even read any of my previous posts? I think you would have a better insight into my stance if you had done so.

Anyway, I was answering your question-- which was set within the Christian mythology-- in a way that is still completely compatible with Christianity. The question does not really present a contradition of beliefs on the part of Christianity, as some of your previous questions have done (ie, why a benevolent, omnipotent God would aid and abet evil), and it has an answer that is not simply "Well, because God said so!"

As far as "whoa, that sounds like evolution!", it's because it is. Most Christians accept micro-evolution, which is what I was explaining. Micro-evolution is basically impossible to not believe: it can and does occur in our lifetime, such as the light and dark moths in England in response to the Industrial Evolution; and it's effects can be seen, as I have noted, in isolated species or those which experience some environmental stresser.

It is with macro-evolution that most Christian have an issue: that is, how a lizard becomes a bird, or an ape becomes a man. However, the dichotomy between micro and macro evolution is rather fabricated, since macro evolution is simply a series of small changes (micro-evolution) over a really long time.

Falvlun, I have read you're other posts, but it is still somewhat unclear as to what you're "specific" beliefs are, or if you even have one. I would be very interested to know more about them. They sound rather intriguing to me. Could you briefly explain them? Thank you.

 

[Falvlun]

Falvlun, I have read you're other posts, but it is still somewhat unclear as to what you're "specific" beliefs are, or if you even have one. I would be very interested to know more about them. They sound rather intriguing to me. Could you briefly explain them? Thank you.

My apologies for snapping at you, Runewolf. It was certainly unwarranted.

As for me, I was a very strong Christian, up until about the age of 18. Then I stumbled upon what I call the Foundational Problem; I could not answer it in a satisfactory way. I struggled with it for six months or so, until I finally decided that I could not live a lie and still claim to be a Christian. At that moment, I embarked on what I call my Search for Truth. At this point in my journey, I am rather disillusioned with religion in general. Buddhism fascinated me for a while, and I like many of its central tenets; but the details turned me off. I started on my journey retaining a belief in a personal God, but I find myself becoming much more cynical on that score as well. I am probably best described as a very curious agnostic, with a strong love of science.

 

[Runewolf1973]

My apologies for snapping at you, Runewolf. It was certainly unwarranted.

As for me, I was a very strong Christian, up until about the age of 18. Then I stumbled upon what I call the Foundational Problem; I could not answer it in a satisfactory way. I struggled with it for six months or so, until I finally decided that I could not live a lie and still claim to be a Christian. At that moment, I embarked on what I call my Search for Truth. At this point in my journey, I am rather disillusioned with religion in general. Buddhism fascinated me for a while, and I like many of its central tenets; but the details turned me off. I started on my journey retaining a belief in a personal God, but I find myself becoming much more cynical on that score as well. I am probably best described as a very curious agnostic, with a strong love of science.

Falvlun, you are in the same boat as we all are. I have a post that I originally forwarded to Zenzero which I would like you to read. It is a bit lengthy, sorry, but I hope you read it. As everything, take it with a grain of salt.
****************************************************************************************************
I find it very interesting that the Buddha is said to have achieved his revelations while sitting under a tree. I knew there was always something about trees! So many other beliefs have the element of the tree in them as well. Trees of knowledge. Trees speak.

Friend, remember my coin analogy? I just thought of something.....

In the Bible it says there was TWO trees in the Garden of Eden. One was the Tree of Knowledge, the other was the Tree of Life. Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life, but forbidden to take fruit from the other. Forgive me if you are not much for biblical analogies.....

Take a coin and set it on the table. It is all part of what "God" is, but is it only the knowledge of good and evil part. The two sides, but they come together to form the ring. The outer side. There are three elements to it. The knowledge of good and evil alone isn't everything. We have to set that knowledge into motion. To put this knowledge into motion is the ability to "create" life just like "God". Now take that coin, pick it up, and spin it. THERE it is! The Tree of Life! Spinning perfectly, everything in balance as it should be. That is what we must all search for. That is what "God" is. The perfect balance of good and evil working in creative animate motion as ONE. "God" is not simply the knowledge of good and evil, but "God" is the power to give things life. Life or Spirit is "animate". When the coin is spinning it is also "animate" in a way. When the male and female come together in perfect balance, we bring that "animation" into Being. Putting the two in motion to create life. All things that exist have this "animate" force. Therefore all things have Spirit. Not such a strange coincidence then that all the planets, stars, galaxies, and even the Universe itself is rotational including destructive forces of nature such as tornadoes and hurricanes. Everything seems to have this rotational force. There is a positive and negative to them. However, even as all things rotate, they all eventually slow down and lose momentum. Just like the coin does. And then what? Everything that has "life" or "animation" has a lifespan it would seem. It seems that eventually "something" comes along and throws off that balance. I would be afraid to think of what would happen if all the stars and galaxies and the Universe itself slowed down. What happens to a star when it "dies" or has completed it's "lifespan"? Interesting......Everything spinning in perfect balance, but will it ever slow down? I wonder.....

Gaaawd!!... I think even my head is spinning!

You probably already knew all this as wise as you are. But I hope my analogy makes sense to you. I don't mean to analyze the bible so much. I see both truths and lies, or positive and negative in ALL things and ALL beliefs, including my own, but they are there for a reason. They serve a purpose. You can't have one without the other. Is there even such thing as ALL Truth? I don't know. Do we not NEED the other part to make that balance? If it were not for both the truth and the lies, mankind would stop fighting in circles like dogs. It is that constant struggle for the balance of nature which keeps us alive. Could man ever ALL agree on ONE thing? Does not seem likely. Do you agree or disagree with any of this?....Ha! Ha!, there is the balance right there! Agree or disagree. Perhaps for us to simply agree to disagree, is where the two become as ONE and we find that power to work together and do great things. Thank you. I'm very sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If a group of 20 people believe strongly that something is true, but another group of 20 people believe strongly that the same thing is false, what is it then? True or false? When 30 people believe that something is true, but 10 people believe that it is false, others would tend to perceive it is true as well. If ALL people together believed that something was true, we ALL perceive it to be nothing but Truth. But it is all just the way we perceive things. Do we really KNOW anything? We certainly don't know everything. Even scientists can't calculate ALL the truths in ALL things. Perhaps as humans we can never possibly know such thing as ALL truth. If energy itself is constantly in a state of change, how can we calculate everything it can possibly do? How can anyone fully understand ALL the truth behind what energy can or can not do besides ALL energy itself?
Just another way of looking at things.....

 

[roli]

Originally Posted by roli
What kind of mindless,void of volition droids would we be like if all he did was pull the strings, ...
How would you have turned out as a child if your parents fixed every problem, prevented every painful experience, gave you everything you thought you wanted.
Please answer this question before you rant on about God and all his short comings and soc alled failures

As parents, we don't have to fix every problem. "God" doesn't have to pull ALL the strings, but in that same regard, "God" should not destroy us if WE pull one wrong one.

One wrong string,.... you think God destroys man for only sinning once, you have'nt looked deep enough in the human heart , or your not be honest.
Man in his carnal nature ,is wicked ,self righteous, arrogant, proud,lustful, greedy, lacking self control, violent, rebellious etc.

Rather than giving us the death sentence, would not it be better to just give us a slap on the wrist first?

Every monent you breathe should be a reminder of God's mercy and grace upon your life and despite our sinful and carnal nature he is patient ,not willing that any of us perish but that we all come to repentance.
Be certain of this one thing, He does not inflict upon us the judgment of his wrath that we deserve,.... today,..but then again, today is not promised to any of us.
The day we stand before him will be the day our fate will be determined,

Don't cut my hands off just because I stole once from the Garden of Eden. We need to learn from our mistakes.

And you would think that 70 or 80 years should be long enough to learn, but as it stands,our carnal nature..just never changes. it's only a genuine encounter with God that will alter that and spare us from this impending judgment.
You see, you or I can never comprehend God's Holiness, he is so pure in righteousness that it is not his possible for us in our carnal nature to stand in his presence because of our sinful nature.
But we in our intellectual finite state try so hard to comprehend this God in a ntural sense, that we end up bringing him down to human level.

It's only in and through Christ that we are counted worthy and righteous of being accepted and forgiven of our high treason.

But we should not be mortaly punished for a first time offence. I don't believe in beating my children to death for doing something wrong.

There you go again, speaking of this sin as a one time occassion.
And again ,you don't understand it's not his heart that sends men to eternal hell, it's their unholy state in light of his Holiness that makes it impossible to enter into his presence.
Unless you understand spiritual conversion, you will never comprehend what I speak of.
Flesh and blood will not inherit eternal life!
It's only by believing in and receiving his truth that His spirit enters a man and makes him alive and declared righteous before God

Even humans themselves are more forgiving than you're glory of a God.

So God in this perfect Holiness is comapred to your view of man.

[

QUOTE]If us petty humans can think of better ways of dealiing with world issues, why could not an ALL powerful God think of something better?

He did ,he gave us 70 or 80 yrs to repent and turn to God , by trusting in Christ so that he will forgive man and grant them everlasting life.
Does man listen ,..no ,the carnal nature will take precedence over surrendering to God's word.
Were told by countless hundreds of professionals of what to do or not do in order to inhance life and avoid dangerous pitfalls in life, do you actually think we listen all the time and follow such direction.
Look at the health conditions of man across the globe.

Submitting to God takes one to humble his intellectual and carnal nature !!!

Or at least something slightly less vengeful and destructive?

So ,why don't you do what he asks you and you will avoid this imminent fate of sinful man!!

You still breathing is proof to me and should be to you that God's extended grace is over your life

 

[Falvlun]

One wrong string,.... you think God destroys man for only sinning once, you have'nt looked deep enough in the human heart , or your not be honest.Man in his carnal nature ,is wicked ,self righteous, arrogant, proud,lustful, greedy, lacking self control, violent, rebellious etc.

Runewolf is clearly referencing the first sin of man: that of disobeying God by eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

It is for this one sin that God drove Adam and Eve from the Garden of Evil, and heaped plenty of other curses on besides.

Man was not made wicked originally:
Gen 1:7 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good

Would everything in God's creation have been very good if man began with all those evil things in his heart?

God did indeed condemn man for one sin. And not just Adam and Eve, the one's who actually sinned, but every other man, woman, and child that came after. I don't know about you, but I never was given the option NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Why should all of mankind have been punished for one man's sin?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Originally Posted by roli
What kind of mindless,void of volition droids would we be like if all he did was pull the strings, ...
How would you have turned out as a child if your parents fixed every problem, prevented every painful experience, gave you everything you thought you wanted.
Please answer this question before you rant on about God and all his short comings and soc alled failures


One wrong string,.... you think God destroys man for only sinning once, you have'nt looked deep enough in the human heart , or your not be honest.
Man in his carnal nature ,is wicked ,self righteous, arrogant, proud,lustful, greedy, lacking self control, violent, rebellious etc.


Every monent you breathe should be a reminder of God's mercy and grace upon your life and despite our sinful and carnal nature he is patient ,not willing that any of us perish but that we all come to repentance.
Be certain of this one thing, He does not inflict upon us the judgment of his wrath that we deserve,.... today,..but then again, today is not promised to any of us.
The day we stand before him will be the day our fate will be determined,


And you would think that 70 or 80 years should be long enough to learn, but as it stands,our carnal nature..just never changes. it's only a genuine encounter with God that will alter that and spare us from this impending judgment.
You see, you or I can never comprehend God's Holiness, he is so pure in righteousness that it is not his possible for us in our carnal nature to stand in his presence because of our sinful nature.
But we in our intellectual finite state try so hard to comprehend this God in a ntural sense, that we end up bringing him down to human level.

It's only in and through Christ that we are counted worthy and righteous of being accepted and forgiven of our high treason.



There you go again, speaking of this sin as a one time occassion.
And again ,you don't understand it's not his heart that sends men to eternal hell, it's their unholy state in light of his Holiness that makes it impossible to enter into his presence.
Unless you understand spiritual conversion, you will never comprehend what I speak of.
Flesh and blood will not inherit eternal life!
It's only by believing in and receiving his truth that His spirit enters a man and makes him alive and declared righteous before God


So God in this perfect Holiness is comapred to your view of man.

[

He did ,he gave us 70 or 80 yrs to repent and turn to God , by trusting in Christ so that he will forgive man and grant them everlasting life.
Does man listen ,..no ,the carnal nature will take precedence over surrendering to God's word.
Were told by countless hundreds of professionals of what to do or not do in order to inhance life and avoid dangerous pitfalls in life, do you actually think we listen all the time and follow such direction.
Look at the health conditions of man across the globe.

Submitting to God takes one to humble his intellectual and carnal nature !!!




So ,why don't you do what he asks you and you will avoid this imminent fate of sinful man!!

You still breathing is proof to me and should be to you that God's extended grace is over your life

By shoving the bible down people's throats, all you do is make people want to choke. Why don't you just "pray" for all us sinners that we eventually find God on our own terms. Where is all this hatred an intolerance stemming from? Do you wish you could crucify me as well? I don't wish to bow down to you're idols of "God" and "Satan" or "the Cross". They ARE idols.They may be false and you may be unknowingly misled. I would rather worship the Universe, or something else existing therein. If my concept of "God" is ALL things that exist, and I love all of what that is, then that say's I even LOVE YOU. Don't try and condemn love. God even loves Satan. But "God" does not love the manipulation of energy we humans create. In our own minds we fabricate lies and distance ourselves from that Oneness with the Source. "God" IS that Source. The ALL in ALL.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Originally Posted by roli
What kind of mindless,void of volition droids would we be like if all he did was pull the strings, ...
How would you have turned out as a child if your parents fixed every problem, prevented every painful experience, gave you everything you thought you wanted.
Please answer this question before you rant on about God and all his short comings and soc alled failures


One wrong string,.... you think God destroys man for only sinning once, you have'nt looked deep enough in the human heart , or your not be honest.
Man in his carnal nature ,is wicked ,self righteous, arrogant, proud,lustful, greedy, lacking self control, violent, rebellious etc.


Every monent you breathe should be a reminder of God's mercy and grace upon your life and despite our sinful and carnal nature he is patient ,not willing that any of us perish but that we all come to repentance.
Be certain of this one thing, He does not inflict upon us the judgment of his wrath that we deserve,.... today,..but then again, today is not promised to any of us.
The day we stand before him will be the day our fate will be determined,


And you would think that 70 or 80 years should be long enough to learn, but as it stands,our carnal nature..just never changes. it's only a genuine encounter with God that will alter that and spare us from this impending judgment.
You see, you or I can never comprehend God's Holiness, he is so pure in righteousness that it is not his possible for us in our carnal nature to stand in his presence because of our sinful nature.
But we in our intellectual finite state try so hard to comprehend this God in a ntural sense, that we end up bringing him down to human level.

It's only in and through Christ that we are counted worthy and righteous of being accepted and forgiven of our high treason.



There you go again, speaking of this sin as a one time occassion.
And again ,you don't understand it's not his heart that sends men to eternal hell, it's their unholy state in light of his Holiness that makes it impossible to enter into his presence.
Unless you understand spiritual conversion, you will never comprehend what I speak of.
Flesh and blood will not inherit eternal life!
It's only by believing in and receiving his truth that His spirit enters a man and makes him alive and declared righteous before God


So God in this perfect Holiness is comapred to your view of man.

[

He did ,he gave us 70 or 80 yrs to repent and turn to God , by trusting in Christ so that he will forgive man and grant them everlasting life.
Does man listen ,..no ,the carnal nature will take precedence over surrendering to God's word.
Were told by countless hundreds of professionals of what to do or not do in order to inhance life and avoid dangerous pitfalls in life, do you actually think we listen all the time and follow such direction.
Look at the health conditions of man across the globe.

Submitting to God takes one to humble his intellectual and carnal nature !!!




So ,why don't you do what he asks you and you will avoid this imminent fate of sinful man!!

You still breathing is proof to me and should be to you that God's extended grace is over your life

By shoving the bible down people's throats, all you do is make people want to choke. Why don't you just "pray" for all us sinners that we eventually find God on our own terms. Where is all this hatred an intolerance stemming from? Do you wish you could crucify me as well? I don't wish to bow down to you're idols of "God" and "Satan" or "the Cross". They ARE idols.They may be false and you may be unknowingly misled. I would rather worship the Universe, or something else existing therein. The Universe is at least tangible and natural, not "supernatural" with "super-powers". I stopped reading comic books and believing in Santa Claus a while ago. If my concept of "God" is ALL things that exist, and I love all of what that is, then that say's I even LOVE YOU. Don't try and condemn love. God even loves Satan. But "God" does not love the manipulation of energy we humans create. In our own minds we fabricate lies and distance ourselves from that Oneness with the Source. Christianity makes Satan out to be the liar. But Satan is just the other half of "God". It is our own mental imbalance that create the lies, not "Satan". "Satan" just gives us the option.

"God" IS that Source. The ALL in ALL.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf1973,

By shoving the bible down people's throats, all you do is make people want to choke. Why don't you just "pray" for all us sinners that we eventually find God on our own terms. Where is all this hatred an intolerance stemming from? Do you wish you could crucify me as well? I don't wish to bow down to you're idols of "God" and "Satan" or "the Cross". They ARE idols.They may be false and you may be unknowingly misled. I would rather worship the Universe, or something else existing therein. The Universe is at least tangible and natural, not "supernatural" with "super-powers". I stopped reading comic books and believing in Santa Claus a while ago. If my concept of "God" is ALL things that exist, and I love all of what that is, then that say's I even LOVE YOU. Don't try and condemn love. God even loves Satan. But "God" does not love the manipulation of energy we humans create. In our own minds we fabricate lies and distance ourselves from that Oneness with the Source. Christianity makes Satan out to be the liar. But Satan is the other half of "God". It is our own mental imbalance that create the lies, not "Satan". "Satan" just gives us the option.

"God" IS that Source. The ALL in ALL.

Just a perspective.
In the begining [i.e when the mind in humans developed or for the first time humans evolved] there was not much problem as humans were mostly in their STILL mind and in harmony with existence but slowly the mind started taking over as it is the nature of the mind to think and humans started getting cut off from this harmony or cut off with existence and then religion developed.
To get humans into no-mind it was more important to show the positive side which is god to get them to cross from mind to no-mind and so satan was not there in any of the religion ALSO because it is known that once someone is enlightened he will know about Satan by default.
However Buddha is the only individual in human history and religions to understand that man is at the cross section of both god and satan and both are just dualities which is an illusion only and so never discussed explicitly on the subject besides he anted the individual to realise and understand TRUTH.
Thereby am trying to state that if some friends talk about God only is because their minds are still deeply engrossed or thoughts deeply seated in their unconscious over thousands of years and so cannot be blamed. Those who understand has to be compassionate about their position, respect it and slowly help them raise their consciousness.
Love & rgds

 

[roli]

By shoving the bible down people's throats, all you do is make people want to choke. Why don't you just "pray" for all us sinners that we eventually find God on our own terms.

You call this "shoving" I merely wrote some things on a page ,much like the bible was written for us, but I 'm sure you would say that of Jesus if he were here telling you to "repent or perish" ..which by the way was his first sermon he preached to people!
I'm sorry you feel that way ,but Paul says; "they hate the light and won't come into the light for fear their deeds will be exposed"
I pray for sinners that God reaches into their lives ,but they continue to refuse the truth that is before them!!!
The bible says,"they surpress the truth"

Where is all this hatred an intolerance stemming from? Do you wish you could crucify me as well?

So if I tell you to repent of your sins or you will perish, that according to you is hatered and intolerance....!If this is classified as a hate crime, how can you accept Jesus and his call for you to repent. He tells Christians to go and preach the gospel, but here you are calling it hate and intolerance.
Jesus actually says , in order to come after him ,you must crucify yourself daily, that is pretty heavy...and you think what I am saying is harsh!!
Luke 9 :23

I don't wish to bow down to you're idols of "God" and "Satan" or "the Cross". They ARE idols.

What are your idols than, we all have them!!

They may be false and you may be unknowingly misled. I would rather worship the Universe, or something else existing therein. If my concept of "God" is ALL things that exist, and I love all of what that is, then that say's I even LOVE YOU. Don't try and condemn love. God even loves Satan. But "God" does not love the manipulation of energy we humans create. In our own minds we fabricate lies and distance ourselves from that Oneness with the Source. "God" IS that Source. The ALL in ALL

I'm not sure where your philosophy comes from ,but it's interesting to see that you obviously believe what you are saying!!!!..even though concerning God your views are ignorant and void of truth!

 

[Religiousless]

Hello all,

I am new to the forums and have a few questions that I find would place me in a position such as our friend Runewolf here. And BTW RuneWolf, I most definately respect your questions. And as for the others, your responses as well.

Forgive me but, I shall start the with a simple one to strike the match with. A mere child like question.

Question 1: Dinosaurs why do their fossils lay beneath us? God created the Heavens and the Earth, so on and so forth. He then created Adam and Eve.
Noah didn't load up a T-rex on his Arc. I'm sure Adam and Eve were not Neanderthals. There was no evolution according to Christian faith, there just WAS.
I will accept any answers or criticism however, there is one asnwer I will NOT accept. Which is, "Dinosaurs were placed on this earth to test our Christian Faith".


Question 2: The Christian God has givin all humans of this earth the power of free will. Meaning there is no predetermined destiny for any of us. You choose your own path. Having said this, the Christian God is also the Alpha and the Omega. The Christian God knows all that ever was and all that ever will be. These are 2 prominent phrases that are within the bible(Not verbatim). They are two of many fundamentals that christians understand. Now on to the question at hand. Why would an all knowing Christian God create me, all while knowing what my actions are(All knowing God) damn me to hell or send me to heaven. Don't make it complex it's a simple question. Technically there is no free will if God does not know all(Future and Past). Do not say that God knows all but, gives us free will. It is contradictory.

And if you believe in Predetemined destiny then, if you were on your way to hell then God evidently knew you were headed there in the first place and this is a SICK game with YOU being the pawn. That's no God of mine. My God if I had one to the likes that you all worship would NOT play games.

The second question is the very question that I came up with one morning that I awoke. At that point, I renounced my devout Christian faith. Please, any pieces of information that you all could help me with would be greatly appreciated.:run:

 

[zenzero]

Friend religiousness,
Welcome!

The second question is the very question that I came up with one morning that I awoke. At that point, I renounced my devout Christian faith. Please, any pieces of information that you all could help me with would be greatly appreciated.

Though am not a follower of any religion but did not know that one fine morning someone can call it a day from any religion.
Just by merely getting baptisied; does one really become a christian OR those who are not baptised are not christians. I love Jesus like a brother. So, who stands where?
Its time when the understanding needs to get deeper about religion and so you like friend Runewolf1973 are at the threshold of CHANGE. The change that is totally personal and individual.
Like me friend Runewolf1973 found his answers and so will you, provided you look/search deep enough.
More as we go along.
LOve & rgds

 

[Falvlun]

Roli, though I didn't find anything particularly hateful in that previous post, your views are couched in such a way to repel people from them, rather than encouraging them to investigate more closely. Though I do believe your motives to be pure, your fire-and-brimstone methodology is less than appealing to most people. Perhaps try tempering the righteous wrath of God with a little more of his love and compassion.
"For God so loved the world...."

For example:

I'm not sure where your philosophy comes from ,but it's interesting to see that you obviously believe what you are saying!!!!..even though concerning God your views are ignorant and void of truth!

You mock his views. That's not the best way to win people over.
Additionally, do realize that though you believe in Christian precepts with all your heart, mind, and soul, it is not fair to think that that truth is so blindingly obvious to everyone else. If it were, there would not exist forums like this, and various religions would never have gained followers.