Mike Huckabee & Evolution

[Michael Hawley]

Hello,
My name is Michael Hawley and although new to this forum, I have been studying the evolution/creation controversy for 35 years. Of all the online forums discussing this issue, I have decided upon this one for numerous reasons. I am quite excited to join in on the discussions (although my six kids do keep me busy).
One of the top potential Republican presidential candidates for 2012, Mike Huckabee, publically admitted he does not believe in evolution. In 2007 during his 2008 bid for the presidency, he stated,

"If you want to believe that you and your family came from apes, that's fine. I'll accept that. I just don't happen to think that I did."

Although Mike Huckabee is very intelligent and is a skillful politician, in this particular case he has fallen prey to what psychologists call assimilation. His beliefs have blinded his judgment. The question that was directed to him was if he believed in evolution. His reply is filled with misconception.

1) Evolutionary biologists and anthropologists do not claim human beings came from today’s apes, such as chimpanzees, bonobos, or gorillas. Common ancestry (which conforms to genetics) argues that we share a common ancestor with today’s apes, but it was not a chimp. The experts refer to these extinct organisms as ape-LIKE primate ancestors and their morphology is just as distinct from modern apes as they are with human beings.

2) His reply did not answer the question. Evolution is not common ancestry. Evolution is defined as, “A change in the frequency of alleles in a gene pool within a population over time” and common ancestry is a genealogical organization of relatedness. Evolution occurs within a population from one generation to the next. I pick on this misconception because man did not evolve from apes. Man evolved from man. A species is defined by the overall gene pool, or the totality of genetic characteristics or alleles. On average, a mammal species has about 40 different alleles per characteristic, such as the shape of the nose or eye color. Because of genetic phenomena, such as mutation and recombination, each generation of a population possesses a slightly different gene pool. The species is evolving from itself.

3) In one respect Huckabee is correct, but he then contradicts himself. Biologically, human beings are apes (even though humans attempted to separate their categories). When we categorize all organisms genetically and morphologically, human beings fit into the “great apes” category. Great apes are distinct from all other extant organisms because they possess all of the following features: hair, fingernails, tailless primates, large brain-to-body ratio, binocular vision, tool use, etc. There is nothing biologically that separates us. Yes, we have the largest brains, but that is not a separator; it merely defines the extremes within a group. Looking at it this way, man evolved from apes because man is an ape. Man just did not evolve from a different kind of ape.

I am looking forward to your replies.

Sincerely,
Michael Hawley
Searching for Truth with a Broken Flashlight

 

[Revoltingest]

Although Mike Huckabee is very intelligent and is a skillful politician, in this particular case he has fallen prey to what psychologists call assimilation. His beliefs have blinded his judgment.

Can you name a presidential candidate who doesn't fall prey to magical beliefs?

Btw, welcome aboard! Nice post.

 

[Tristesse]

Welcome to the forum Michael Hawley. I agree with you, there are many misconceptions about evolution. And I think the most disheartening part, is the willfulness of most people to not want to understand it.

 

[Calico Jack]

Excellent post.

 

[Rakhel]

Arkansas politicians are a strange breed indeed. You have one that says you don't need to pass an I.Q. test to be in government and another who is a stanch baptist.
Huckabee was a minister before becoming Governor of Arkansas and would take every chance he could, while in office, to preach at his church. His politics have always been a bit strange, from my point of view, but at least he firmly stands behind them

 

[slowbreath]

Hello,
My name is Michael Hawley and although new to this forum, I have been studying the evolution/creation controversy for 35 years. Of all the online forums discussing this issue, I have decided upon this one for numerous reasons. I am quite excited to join in on the discussions (although my six kids do keep me busy).
One of the top potential Republican presidential candidates for 2012, Mike Huckabee, publically admitted he does not believe in evolution. In 2007 during his 2008 bid for the presidency, he stated,

"If you want to believe that you and your family came from apes, that's fine. I'll accept that. I just don't happen to think that I did."

Although Mike Huckabee is very intelligent and is a skillful politician, in this particular case he has fallen prey to what psychologists call assimilation. His beliefs have blinded his judgment. The question that was directed to him was if he believed in evolution. His reply is filled with misconception.

1) Evolutionary biologists and anthropologists do not claim human beings came from today’s apes, such as chimpanzees, bonobos, or gorillas. Common ancestry (which conforms to genetics) argues that we share a common ancestor with today’s apes, but it was not a chimp. The experts refer to these extinct organisms as ape-LIKE primate ancestors and their morphology is just as distinct from modern apes as they are with human beings.

2) His reply did not answer the question. Evolution is not common ancestry. Evolution is defined as, “A change in the frequency of alleles in a gene pool within a population over time” and common ancestry is a genealogical organization of relatedness. Evolution occurs within a population from one generation to the next. I pick on this misconception because man did not evolve from apes. Man evolved from man. A species is defined by the overall gene pool, or the totality of genetic characteristics or alleles. On average, a mammal species has about 40 different alleles per characteristic, such as the shape of the nose or eye color. Because of genetic phenomena, such as mutation and recombination, each generation of a population possesses a slightly different gene pool. The species is evolving from itself.

3) In one respect Huckabee is correct, but he then contradicts himself. Biologically, human beings are apes (even though humans attempted to separate their categories). When we categorize all organisms genetically and morphologically, human beings fit into the “great apes” category. Great apes are distinct from all other extant organisms because they possess all of the following features: hair, fingernails, tailless primates, large brain-to-body ratio, binocular vision, tool use, etc. There is nothing biologically that separates us. Yes, we have the largest brains, but that is not a separator; it merely defines the extremes within a group. Looking at it this way, man evolved from apes because man is an ape. Man just did not evolve from a different kind of ape.

I am looking forward to your replies.

Sincerely,
Michael Hawley
Searching for Truth with a Broken Flashlight

good post.......do you happen to have any thoughts or info on why theres so much variety of species?

 

[Michael Hawley]

Thanks for the posts everyone. Slowbreath, variation in species is a causal result of common descent, with the most similar species having genetically closer relatedness than less similar species, i.e., a more distant common ancestor. It's kind of like one set of your great-great-great grandparents have more descendents than one set of your grandparents. At the same time, the descendents of the great-great-great grandparents look quite dissimilar. Did this answer your question?

Sincerely,
Michael Hawley
Searching for Truth with a Broken Flashlight

 

[Alex_G]

Hello,

One of the top potential Republican presidential candidates for 2012, Mike Huckabee, publically admitted he does not believe in evolution. In 2007 during his 2008 bid for the presidency, he stated,

"If you want to believe that you and your family came from apes, that's fine. I'll accept that. I just don't happen to think that I did."

From this quote i can see, as you mentioned, a classic misunderstanding of evolution. Human's coming from apes is not correct, rather a shared ancestry exists.

Secondly, and probably more annoyingly, is he commits a subtle fallacy of an appeal to emotion. By using a slightly humiliating and superior tone to reinforce the position he holds over his objectors. Sneaky work Mr Huckabee, provided you were aware.

 

[outhouse]

welcome to the forums!!!

Not sure there is anything to debate there but it does point out how ignorant huckabee really is again.

 

[Father Heathen]

His politics have always been a bit strange, from my point of view, but at least he firmly stands behind them

Rigid adherence to madness isn't exactly an admirable trait.

 

[Meow Mix]

Hello,
My name is Michael Hawley and although new to this forum, I have been studying the evolution/creation controversy for 35 years.

Hi Michael, welcome to the forums!

 

[Amill]

Yea after hearing that he could be a potential candidate I remembered what he said about evolution. I don't think it's a big deal though because they hire science advisers with degrees from good universities. Even Bush, who said he felt students should learn about evolution and ID, had a science adviser that said Evolution was the cornerstone of biology.

And I doubt he'd want to get into a controversy such as that, so even if he did get elected it's not like we'll see mandates for schools to purchase books that teach both. The only worry is that with his disbelief in evolution, does he also just have a lack of interest in all of science? Could possibly lead to less funding in scientific fields and organizations I guess.

 

[DeistPrimate]

Yes I remember when he was responding to interview questions regarding his statements and he asked why it would matter if he didn't believe evolution was real since it wouldn't affect his job.

I do maintain the leader of the free world needs to have a grasp on reality, yes.

 

[Sunstone]

I do maintain the leader of the free world needs to have a grasp on reality, yes.

Yes, that would be nice.

 

[Michael Hawley]

A friend of mine believes he is pragmatic enough to take a second look at it, even though his background is in Baptist ministry. I agree with Amill, especially when most serious idealist candidates move centrist in order to get reelected.

Mike
Searching for Truth with a Broken Flashlight

 

[Kathryn]

Welcome to the forum! Great OP - I can't find anything to disagree with in it, either.

The current crop of US politicians, across the board, seems to be a collection of weirdos.

Very depressing.

 

[Man of Faith]

Ape or ape like creature, not much difference so I wouldn't worry about equivocating on that minor language difference. The important part is we haven't seen any humans come from any creature other than another human, just like the Bible describes.

 

[Meow Mix]

Ape or ape like creature, not much difference so I wouldn't worry about equivocating on that minor language difference. The important part is we haven't seen any humans come from any creature other than another human, just like the Bible describes.

What is a "human," though? Is it just Homo sapiens? Where do we draw the line?

Is Homo erectus human?

Is Homo neanderthalensis human?

Is Homo floriensis human?

Is Homo habilis human?

Is Australopithecus afarensis human?

(etc.)

 

[Man of Faith]

What is a "human," though? Is it just Homo sapiens? Where do we draw the line?

Is Homo erectus human?

Is Homo neanderthalensis human?

Is Homo floriensis human?

Is Homo habilis human?

Is Australopithecus afarensis human?

(etc.)

I have no problem determine who is human or not, they wear clothes.

 

[Meow Mix]

I have no problem determine who is human or not, they wear clothes.

Which would exclude Australopithecus afarensis, which if it isn't a direct ancestor is closely related to our nearest common ancestor. In order for your statement to be true about there being no evidence of humans evolving from anything non-human, then by your own definitions that evidence is forthcoming: you just have to ignore it for your original statement to be "true."