Milo Yiannopoulos = transphobic, homophobic pig!

[Alison Wonderland]

Transphobes usually present trans women as all being sexual perverts who want to harass and assault cis women. I was assuming that was the line of argument you were going to go with. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. As for your example, that individual may not even actually be trans. I know of male transvestites who have identity issues and think they're trans women, but they actually aren't. There's ways of telling the difference and they usually freak out when they get on female hormones and don't continue with it. Even if that person is actually a transsexual (I don't know them), that person's issues with boundary-violating behavior are separate from them being trans. It's like how most of my depression, anxiety and problems with trauma are separate from being me being a transsexual.

Fair enough.

And that wasn't the line of argument I was going with. I just think it's obvious that there are a variety of concerns when a biological man is granted access to areas specified only for women. At no point did I generalize.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Fair enough.

And that wasn't the line of argument I was going with. I just think it's obvious that there are a variety of concerns when a biological man is granted access to areas specified only for women. At no point did I generalize.

That's fair. But we should be careful not to generalize a whole group on the behavior of a few. The vast majority of trans women have no desire to harm cis women, just like most cis women wouldn't. They just want to do the same things cis women do in female spaces, and I've known numerous trans women. There will always be outliers, those who greatly violate social expectations of behavior, regardless of which groups they may belong to. But most people of any group don't.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

I can't stand Milo and I find him disgusting. I also have a temper and low patience for stupidity. Who cares. You can hold that against me if you please and be a fangirl or fanboy (since I don't know your gender) of his but I don't really give a damn.

I figured I should address this; after all, this thread is dedicated to Milo. Also because it could be the last time he is discussed really at all.

(Btw - this is a 7 page thread indicating that you do indeed care about the guy very much)

I actually do like Milo. I've never been some fanatic like you suggested, but I think his relevance goes far beyond the opinions he has expressed publically and I think he'll be sorely missed if he never makes it back into the public sphere with any relevance.

I think the people who are genuinely offended by him are those who both take him and themselves a little too seriously. With the explosion of the internet and the way it complements postmodernism, there seems to be a chaotic shift in the ways in which people relate to each other - one that has been unprecedented.

Ultimately, I found Milo entertaining, well-spoken, even mildly charismatic in his delivery and what his presence ultimately boils down to is a championing of freedom of speech.

The guy was a character (as previously stated: a self-proclaimed provocateur/troll/whatever) and his opinions mattered less than his presence in the public eye actually did. He was a clown at heart - like a Shakespearean fool.

The core of what he seemed to endorsing was that, in a society where freedom of speech is privileged, you should express and/or hone your opinions should you feel confident that they are founded on fact and logic.

The whole "alt-right dangerous ******" getup was really just a vehicle for the above. The controversy that surrounded him was just a bunch of fun in the wake of it all. The reactions to him seemed to be equally as interesting as his presence.

I actually feel bad for what happened to him and I think it actually represents a step backwards from what he offered.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I figured I should address this; after all, this thread is dedicated to Milo. Also because it could be the last time he is discussed really at all.

(Btw - this is a 7 page thread indicating that you do indeed care about the guy very much)

I actually do like Milo. I've never been some fanatic like you suggested, but I think his relevance goes far beyond the opinions he has expressed publically and I think he'll be sorely missed if he never makes it back into the public sphere with any relevance.

I think the people who are genuinely offended by him are those who both take him and themselves a little too seriously. With the explosion of the internet and the way it complements postmodernism, there seems to be a chaotic shift in the ways in which people relate to each other - one that has been unprecedented.

Ultimately, I found Milo entertaining, well-spoken, even mildly charismatic in his delivery and what his presence ultimately boils down to is a championing of freedom of speech.

The guy was a character (as previously stated: a self-proclaimed provocateur/troll/whatever) and his opinions mattered less than his presence in the public eye actually did. He was a clown at heart - like a Shakespearean fool.

The core of what he seemed to endorsing was that, in a society where freedom of speech is privileged, you should express and/or hone your opinions should you feel confident that they are founded on fact and logic.

The whole "alt-right dangerous ******" getup was really just a vehicle for the above. The controversy that surrounded him was just a bunch of fun in the wake of it all. The reactions to him seemed to be equally as interesting as his presence.

I actually feel bad for what happened to him and I think it actually represents a step backwards from what he offered.

I never said I didn't care about him. I follow what a lot of people I find disgusting do, including various extremist movements and the individuals involved. They fascinate me as well as nauseate me. But I find abnormal psychology fascinating in general. Psychopaths, serial killers, mass murderers, cult leaders, extreme narcissists, etc. are right up my alley.

Why feel bad for him? He destroyed his own career. No one did it for him. He imploded under the weight of his own troll schtick. Society draws a line at promoting adult/child sex. Even the right-wing, which was tickled pink over him portraying a caricature of gay men that lives up to their worst fears and stereotypes (of course, while spewing hatred about various other groups they also hate), even they drew the line at promoting sex between children and adults. It's funny that you bring up "post-modernism" when he is ultimately a nihilistic opportunist. It's really quite strange that so many on the right liked him, when he doesn't actually stand for anything. Cognitive dissonance, it seems, but the American right is rather nihilistic in general.

I agree that he is ultimately a clown. He is a gay face minstrel (and may not even be actually gay since none of his self-stated biography is really proven). He is ultimately an empty person, which makes him almost a tragic figure (but he's not that important, so I wouldn't really deign to inflate his bloated ego that much). He's a parasite, ultimately. He has nothing inside, so he must fill his inner void with the reactions of others he gets from his puerile freakshow. He's just one of those black holes in human form, similar to how psychopaths are nothing more than a mask. A true icon of "post-modernism", indeed.

 

[columbus]

I think the people who are genuinely offended by him are those who both take him and themselves a little too seriously.

This^^^
I barely knew of his existence before he became a thing on RF. I am just not much into celebrities. Milo never did anything I found important. He is a performance artist who has honed his act until it paid well, not a pundit or a deep thinker.
His trolling of the liberals about how "Anime cartoons have to go because they are tooooo gay" was totally a hoot.

Tom

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Why feel bad for him? He destroyed his own career. No one did it for him. He imploded under the weight of his own troll schtick. Society draws a line at promoting adult/child sex. Even the right-wing, which was tickled pink over him portraying a caricature of gay men that lives up to their worst fears and stereotypes (of course, while spewing hatred about various other groups they also hate), even they drew the line at promoting sex between children and adults. It's funny that you bring up "post-modernism" when he is ultimately a nihilistic opportunist. It's really quite strange that so many on the right liked him, when he doesn't actually stand for anything. Cognitive dissonance, it seems, but the American right is rather nihilistic in general.

I didn't say I feel bad for him. I said I think he will be sorely missed as a result of what seemed to be an obscure and (all things considered) minor (excuse the pun) mishap that occurred a significant while back. It seems like people who were genuinely offended by him went out of their way to facilitate his downfall considering his fatal comments happened nearly a year ago.

Why is it funny that I bring up post modernism? Is postmodernism not cushioned, if not enabled, by nihilistic opportunism? I argue it is. I would also argue that Milo did a great deal to contribute to it and I'm rather upset that his contribution has been lost recently. I hope he makes a comeback.

And, if the American right is "rather nihilistic in general" as you claim, it's become a far cry from it's roots; even speaking in terms of a dramatic shift in the last 10 years. Right wing politics worldwide need to be deeply adulterated in order to entertain nihilism.

I agree that he is ultimately a clown. He is a gay face minstrel (and may not even be actually gay since none of his self-stated biography is really proven). He is ultimately an empty person, which makes him almost a tragic figure (but he's not that important, so I wouldn't really deign to inflate his bloated ego that much). He's a parasite, ultimately. He has nothing inside, so he must fill his inner void with the reactions of others he gets from his puerile freakshow. He's just one of those black holes in human form, similar to how psychopaths are nothing more than a mask. A true icon of "post-modernism", indeed.

This comment serves as a perfect example of those who take him and themselves too seriously. I actually doubt Milo cares as much about his plight as you seem to.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You don't.
He's trolling you.
He admits he's trolling you.
Don't feed the trolls.

People who can't help themselves are a troll's favorite snack. Humorless people who think their opinions are not only correct but also righteous are the most delectable. Today's environment is like a free, endless, high-quality buffet for trolls. Never has so much delicious food been so readily available.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I didn't say I feel bad for him. I said I think he will be sorely missed as a result of what seemed to be an obscure and (all things considered) minor (excuse the pun) mishap that occurred a significant while back. It seems like people who were genuinely offended by him went out of their way to facilitate his downfall considering his fatal comments happened nearly a year ago.

Why is it funny that I bring up post modernism? Is postmodernism not cushioned, if not enabled, by nihilistic opportunism? I argue it is. I would also argue that Milo did a great deal to contribute to it and I'm rather upset that his contribution has been lost recently. I hope he makes a comeback.

And, if the American right is "rather nihilistic in general" as you claim, it's become a far cry from it's roots; even speaking in terms of a dramatic shift in the last 10 years. Right wing politics worldwide need to be deeply adulterated in order to entertain nihilism.



This comment serves as a perfect example of those who take him and themselves too seriously. I actually doubt Milo cares as much about his plight as you seem to.

I provided my opinion of him. To you, it seems that everyone that doesn't like him or doesn't just ignore him takes him and themselves "too seriously". You, yourself, seem to care about his "plight" (lol).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People who can't help themselves are a troll's favorite snack. Humorless people who think their opinions are not only correct but also righteous are the most delectable. Today's environment is like a free, endless, high-quality buffet for trolls. Never has so much delicious food been so readily available.

Just because you don't find hate speech, bullying, slander and idiocy "funny" doesn't mean you don't have a sense of humor. Trolls have sadistic, anti-social personalities, anyway. They're malicious parasites.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Trolls have sadistic, anti-social personalities, anyway. They're malicious parasites.

Interestingly, this generally describes the people who take their bait, as well.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Interestingly, this generally describes the people who take their bait, as well.

Not according to any evidence I've seen, unlike with trolls.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Not according to any evidence I've seen, unlike with trolls.

I suppose we all have various tendencies to see what we want.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The male to female transgender people I've met seemed to be significantly more disturbed and actually qualify as pathologically perverted on the basis of their behavior.

That is not correct. Depressed and anxious, yes, "pathological pervert" no. And you have to consider that hormone therapy generally leaves a MtF with less testosterone than a cis-woman. Not that that totally and completely does away with sexuality and urges, but the "male sex drive" is usually about the first thing to go once hormone therapy begins.
In an area that overlaps, in places where sex offenders undergo both therapy and chemical castration (this being essentially what the MtF transsexual undergoes on hormone therapy) have a very low rate reoffending. Now of course there are female rapists and sexual predators, but when the larger picture is concerned, there is no reason to believe or assume that a MtF transsexual, especially once on hormone therapy, is going to pose the same risk a cis-male would, as the MtF transsexual is not being "powered" by testosterone the way a male is, cis or trans.
To use my own anecdotes, I have Asperger's syndrome (which makes socializing difficult) and was sexually starved to the point of frequently nearly trying anonymous hook ups because it has been so many years since I've had sex. After a few weeks on hormones, the male sex drive vanished, it's not a gnawing, burning drive anymore, and though I still very much do have a sex drive, I really don't even view porn anymore. Of course this just me, but that is also pretty much how male levels of testosterone effect sexuality. (generally speaking of course, but all the overlaps and other things would make this a very long and difficult post).
And then there is also how transsexuals can be heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. Myself, I am heterosexual and it just seems funny of an idea to try to "grope a look" at what I have (or will eventually have) and don't get sexual kicks from anyways.

Would you approve of this?

Myself (with clinical psychology being what I am working towards with a focus on LBGT issues) I do approve of that, but absolutely nothing medical at that age (there really isn't any need for it that young anyways.

I think there's a huge reservoir of information to suggest that there are some nasty problems with transgender men being allowed access to women-only areas.

You may think, but there isn't. As it stands, male janitors taking advantage of the situation and voyeurs sneaking in are the greatest risks, and they far outweigh trans-women who are trying to sneak a peak. And, let's be realistic, what man is going to go through all these things and dress and present as a woman just to get a peak in the women's restroom or locker room?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I suppose we all have various tendencies to see what we want.

Sure, to an extent. But there have been studies done on (Internet) trolls showing that they have sadistic, anti-social personalities: Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sure, to an extent. But there have been studies done on (Internet) trolls showing that they have sadistic, anti-social personalities: Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists

Very sciencey. Only a troll would resist such socially-mandated truth.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Very sciencey. Only a troll would resist such socially-mandated truth.

But if you need science to tell you that, I can't really help you, anyway.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But if you need science to tell you that, I can't really help you, anyway.

Indeed, who needs science when the truth is self-apparent?

 

[Alison Wonderland]

To you, it seems that everyone that doesn't like him or doesn't just ignore him takes him and themselves "too seriously".

That's not at all what I said.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think there's a huge reservoir of information to suggest that there are some nasty problems with transgender men being allowed access to women-only areas. You might not think so, but I find that to be extremely ironic considering some of the personalities you described in your last post.

I also forgot to add many places around the world do not gender segregate things like restrooms, and nobody cares.
But, here in America, yes, a bearded man in the woman's restroom tends to be a sight. Good thing I say keep them out and put men in the men's restroom.

 

[Deidre]

From what I've read about Milo, he has a lot of internal battles he's fighting, from his childhood, dealing with his own sexuality, and dealing with predators that used and molested him. Not saying he's not responsible for what he says, he is. But, think that he has a lot of internal issues to sort out.