Miracles. Scientific Proof.

[joelr]

Around the mid 1990's papers looking into health risks for the gay community were all but stopped. This ran for over a decade (I no longer have access to the research libraries so I can't confirm if it changed). There was quite a bit of research done on health problems in the gay communities and then all of a sudden it was not the thing to do. The Article on mask effectiveness was blocked for quite some time and then finally published after a suck up disclaimer was added to appease politically minded editors.

This paper finds it's always been lacking.
Twenty Years of Public Health Research: Inclusion of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Populations
Twenty Years of Public Health Research: Inclusion of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Populations

Conclusions. Findings supported that LGBT issues have been neglected by public health research and that research unrelated to sexually transmitted diseases is lacking.



But this isn't at all related to ESP or paranormal studies. ESP was studied extensively by the military in the 1970s , they wanted to use remote viewing as a weapon. Ingo Swan and all those people.
It simply didn't produce the results that warranted spending more money on.

Dean Radin and William Tiller are scientists attempting to demonstrate through experiments that some paranormal something exists. Anything? It would gain huge public interest if anything could be demonstrated.
If faith healing could be demonstrated to be real healers would make trillions of dollars. But it's a show, like mediums and psychics. You never see a faith healer at a childrens hospital. They need the ceremony to raise adrenaline and make people feel better. Eventually most people who go to those ceremonies admit that when they go home and the high wears off their symptoms come back. Sometimes worse.
That is really the bulk of the evidence.

The only other thing is people who recover when they were expected to die. This happens sometimes. Some of the people are not religious and just say they beat the odds. Medical professionals say it's often related to an experimental treatment they allowed and it worked. If the person prayed then they say they had a faith healing. They give credit to a deity but they usually had several surgeries, loads of medicine and a staff of people working around the clock to help them

I'm just looking for evidence.

The Wiki page sums up the scene pretty well:
Faith healing - Wikipedia

 

[Truth in love]

Is there a source other than the Bible which speaks of Jesus feeding the multitudes? Jesus walking on water?, Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt?

not all of those specifics, but there are other records of similar events.

 

[Truth in love]

No. Discuss it to your heart's content. Science will encourage it.
It is only the religious who shrink at the mention of evidence.
Fixing things is not in the domain of science. Why fault science when humans have never been able to do that in spite of umpteen prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis?

Not sure who you hang out with but I often find people highly upset that their favorite science theory has questions being asked of it.

 

[Truth in love]

This paper finds it's always been lacking.
Twenty Years of Public Health Research: Inclusion of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Populations
Twenty Years of Public Health Research: Inclusion of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Populations

Conclusions. Findings supported that LGBT issues have been neglected by public health research and that research unrelated to sexually transmitted diseases is lacking.



But this isn't at all related to ESP or paranormal studies. ESP was studied extensively by the military in the 1970s , they wanted to use remote viewing as a weapon. Ingo Swan and all those people.
It simply didn't produce the results that warranted spending more money on.

Dean Radin and William Tiller are scientists attempting to demonstrate through experiments that some paranormal something exists. Anything? It would gain huge public interest if anything could be demonstrated.
If faith healing could be demonstrated to be real healers would make trillions of dollars. But it's a show, like mediums and psychics. You never see a faith healer at a childrens hospital. They need the ceremony to raise adrenaline and make people feel better. Eventually most people who go to those ceremonies admit that when they go home and the high wears off their symptoms come back. Sometimes worse.
That is really the bulk of the evidence.

The only other thing is people who recover when they were expected to die. This happens sometimes. Some of the people are not religious and just say they beat the odds. Medical professionals say it's often related to an experimental treatment they allowed and it worked. If the person prayed then they say they had a faith healing. They give credit to a deity but they usually had several surgeries, loads of medicine and a staff of people working around the clock to help them

I'm just looking for evidence.

The Wiki page sums up the scene pretty well:
Faith healing - Wikipedia

If the only evidence you accept is in the very narrow field of journals it will be a long wait

 

[wellwisher]

not all of those specifics, but there are other records of similar events.

Feeding the multitude can be proven with basic math. If you have one fish and divide it by 0.001 you get a thousand fish. I am not exactly sure how that works but the math says it works.

Division by fractions is also part of of science. Einstein's equations for Specialty Relativity use division by a fraction to increase relativistic mass, distance and time. It should work for fish and bread.

 

[Tiberius]

not all of those specifics, but there are other records of similar events.

Go on then, show us.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not sure who you hang out with but I often find people highly upset that their favorite science theory has questions being asked of it.

I hang out with science. I never shirk questions. Ask me any. Rest assured that my answer will come sharp and fast.
However, provide some evidence for your Allah and the uneducated 19th Century Iranian being his 'manifestation'. Gawd, what all words he used to puff himself up among his Shia followers!

not all of those specifics, but there are other records of similar events.

Records where? In ancient story books?

 

[joelr]

If the only evidence you accept is in the very narrow field of journals it will be a long wait

Well if you accept anecdotal or mythological evidence you will never find what is actually true. Just what people want to believe is true. I am interested in what is actually true.

If faith healing had any type of legitimacy than it could be demonstrated in a clinical setting and papers could be written.

If it's a scam it will only be done on a stage and you will never see a healer in a childrens hospital, where a person should be if they really had healing powers.


Earlier you mentioned some paper you had forgotten the name of? Does this mean that paper doesn't exist?

I am open to good evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not reliable. The anecdotal evidence in Islam says Christians are liers and cursed and will meet a painful doom. I'm sure that anecdotal evidence means nothing to you. Yet anecdotal evidence that does support your beliefs may be valid? That is cognitive bias and a terrible way to know what is true.

 

[Truth in love]

Go on then, show us.

Of what value is digging them up if you flatly deny the value of any document or report not in a journal?

 

[Truth in love]

I hang out with science. I never shirk questions. Ask me any. Rest assured that my answer will come sharp and fast.
However, provide some evidence for your Allah and the uneducated 19th Century Iranian being his 'manifestation'. Gawd, what all words he used to puff himself up among his Shia followers!Records where? In ancient story books?

What separates history from a “story book”?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What separates history from a “story book”?

Evidence.

 

[Truth in love]

Evidence.

So if there is a primary source like a personal journal or letter is that evidence?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So if there is a primary source like a personal journal or letter is that evidence?

It could be. It depends a lot on the claim and who the author was.

 

[ppp]

So if there is a primary source like a personal journal or letter is that evidence?

You would first have present evidence that the event claimed can happen.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So if there is a primary source like a personal journal or letter is that evidence?

No. I would not consider it as conclusive evidence and will put it to test.
Did you know that a gentleman from Nigeria sent me an e-mail that 'Truth in love' owes Aupmanyav a million dollars? I know that you do not owe me anything.

 

[ppp]

No. I would not consider it as conclusive evidence and will put it to test.
Did you know that a gentleman from Nigeria sent me an e-mail that 'Truth in love' owes Aupmanyav a million dollars? I know that you do not owe me anything.

On cannot even be assured that the email came from a gentleman. Or Nigeria.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You would first have present evidence that the event claimed can happen.

Exactly. First demonstrate that miracles are possible. Do one. Then we'll talk about whether some ancient story book is based in fact.

 

[Tiberius]

Of what value is digging them up if you flatly deny the value of any document or report not in a journal?

If there is evidence from reality to support them, I won't deny them.

 

[Tiberius]

So if there is a primary source like a personal journal or letter is that evidence?

If the letter was written at the time of the event, yes. If it was written by who it claims to have been written by, yes.

 

[Truth in love]

If there is evidence from reality to support them, I won't deny them.

So do you accept journals of unlikely events?

would a history of people who had miracles be evidence or just dismissed out of hand?