Misappropriation of the word 'racist' used against Trump

[Watchmen]

Then to drop a bomb shell, among your fellow Libertarians you get to include Noam Chomsky. Not only because that is what he self-identifies as, but primarily because the root word of Libertarian is liberty, which is the focus of Libertarianism. However, right-Libertarians and left-Libertarians do not agree over the means and methods to maximize and best preserve individual liberty for all.

Just because some black people defended slavery and the societal ideas that black people are inferior to white people doesn't make slavery and such views not racist. The "Uncle Tom" character archetype has survived and still used for a reason.

They aren't uncle toms. They're just smart enough to recognize Trump isn't racist.

Maybe you're racist to suggest a black person who disagrees with you must be an Uncle Tom. Shameful!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They aren't uncle toms. They're just smart enough to recognize Trump isn't racist.

Maybe you're racist to suggest a black person who disagrees with you must be an Uncle Tom. Shameful!

That wasn't my intention to imply that. I don't know this person you mentioned, so how could I possibly know if he is an Uncle Tom or not?
Rather, it was to high-lite that someone of a race being targeted defended the person doing the attacking does not pardon the attacking person of racism. There is a reason Malcom X made the distinction between the "House Negro" and the "Field Negro."

 

[Watchmen]

That wasn't my intention to imply that. I don't know this person you mentioned, so how could I possibly know if he is an Uncle Tom or not?
Rather, it was to high-lite that someone of a race being targeted defended the person doing the attacking does not pardon the attacking person of racism. There is a reason Malcom X made the distinction between the "House Negro" and the "Field Negro."

Name one racist thing Trump has said or done.

 

[metis]

Name one racist thing Trump has said or done.

 

[Watchmen]

Ok. Making faces means you can't. Congratulations.

 

[metis]

Ok. Making faces means you can't. Congratulations.

No, some things are just so idiotic that there's no need to even point that out to anyone who has been following what's been happening. If you can't see it, the problem is yours-- seriously.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Name one racist thing Trump has said or done.

He was sued in '73 for having no black people working for him; he was fined in '92 for having black card dealers in his casino swapped out to satisfy customer requests; in '91 the president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino claimed Trump dismissed black employees as lazy, and that he hates black people counting his money, and he only wants "short guys wearing yarmulkes" counting his money; in '96 he was sued in Indiana for failing to keep a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a Lake Michigan riverboat casino; he shrugs off, dismisses, and lied to say he doesn't know some white supremacists who have endorsed him (such as David Duke); like any other racist he "loves" the group he attacks and "has friends" who are of that group; in '93 he claimed that members of the Mashantucket Pequot Nation don't look like Indians to him or other Indians; he supported people at rallies who beat a black man at one rally, and a Latino man at another rally; he has resorted to using stereotypes of Jewish people; he claimed an American judge of Mexican heritage will automatically be biased against him; and then there was his garbage about "Mexico sending rapists, drug dealers, thieves, murders....but some of the I assume are good people."

 

[metis]

He was sued in '73 for having no black people working for him; he was fined in '92 for having black card dealers in his casino swapped out to satisfy customer requests; in '91 the president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino claimed Trump dismissed black employees as lazy, and that he hates black people counting his money, and he only wants "short guys wearing yarmulkes" counting his money; in '96 he was sued in Indiana for failing to keep a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a Lake Michigan riverboat casino; he shrugs off, dismisses, and lied to say he doesn't know some white supremacists who have endorsed him (such as David Duke); like any other racist he "loves" the group he attacks and "has friends" who are of that group; in '93 he claimed that members of the Mashantucket Pequot Nation don't look like Indians to him or other Indians; he supported people at rallies who beat a black man at one rally, and a Latino man at another rally; he has resorted to using stereotypes of Jewish people; he claimed an American judge of Mexican heritage will automatically be biased against him; and then there was his garbage about "Mexico sending rapists, drug dealers, thieves, murders....but some of the I assume are good people."

Spoiler alert! Some people don't see these as being racist because, to them, "it's just the way it is". It's sorta like criminals often don't see themselves as criminals because they got an excuse that proves they ain't really a criminal-- and our prisons are full of 'em.

 

[Acim]

2. Thinking there is a "good chance" that a judge of a certain ethnic group may be related to illegal aliens is definitely racist because it is based, not on knowledge of the individual, but conclusions drawn from the colour of the judges skin.

That is not what racism is.

Probably already addressed in the thread, but apparently it needs repeating. It may be (probably is) prejudice, but is most definitely not racism.

3. The question is whether these statistics show a correlation or a causation between ethnic groups and criminal activity. That relationship cannot be assumed. Assuming such a relationship without demonstrating causation is racist.

Also not racism / racist.

I honestly don't see how intellectual people can tie such things to racism, but alas, here we are.

4. Assuming all Syrians are the same and therefore that that letting them come into the country based on other countries "having problems" will cause problems is racist as your deriving a conclusion based on group identity not individual actions.

Also not racist. If such an assumption is held, it would plausibly be stereotyping.

The thing with prejudice, discrimination and stereotyping is that it could be, in some instances, accurate. In many cases (like the popular ones we hear about in the news), they are likely inaccurate claims being stated, though the trends one would be exception to this.

With racism, there's pretty much no positive way to spin it, and would take a whole lot of science / critical thinking to establish the claim as accurate (that one race is inferior/superior) to another.

 

[Acim]

Can a view both be correct and 'racist' at the same time? For example, I do believe African-Americas are inherently better in certain sport fields than Asian-Americans.

This would be close to racist, especially with emphasis on inherently. Racism tends to suggest 'inherently better (or worse)' in all aspects. Thus, I see this as an extreme version of stereotyping that borderlines on racism (because of emphasis on inherently). Take out 'inherently' and it reads like your opinion that happens to be stereotyping.

 

[Acim]

To suggest that Trump's comments are not racist serves only to white-wash a despicable politician.

Or helps separate critical thinkers from political correctness wannabes.

 

[George-ananda]

This would be close to racist, especially with emphasis on inherently. Racism tends to suggest 'inherently better (or worse)' in all aspects. Thus, I see this as an extreme version of stereotyping that borderlines on racism (because of emphasis on inherently). Take out 'inherently' and it reads like your opinion that happens to be stereotyping.

But can stereotyping be based on reality (involving differences in genetics and not just environment)? What if I believe that one ethnic group is better at a certain thing than another group but that the second group is better than the first group at other things. Is that belief racism? It gets back to my question: Can a belief be both correct and racist at the same time? I believe some stereotypes have a partially genetic basis.

 

[Acim]

And secondly, is it ever possible to be both correct and 'racist' at the same time?

I do think it would be possible to be racist and correct in that racism. I don't believe I've ever seen this shown through critical thinking and/or physical evidence. But doesn't mean it isn't still possible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To suggest that Trump's comments are not racist serves only to white-wash a despicable politician.

Or helps separate critical thinkers from political correctness wannabes.

Characterizing a Trump apologist as a critical thinker is laughable.

 

[George-ananda]

I do think it would be possible to be racist and correct in that racism. I don't believe I've ever seen this shown through critical thinking and/or physical evidence. But doesn't mean it isn't still possible.

I have thought about this and do certainly believe certain stereotypes have some of their basis in genetics (never provable nor disprovable to everyone's satisfaction). It is a considered opinion like belief in God or the afterlife. But on the other hand I also believe in spiritual love for all and harbor no hatred or dislike towards any groups. I just think things are what they are and not necessarily how we think they should be.

 

[Acim]

Yes, if this idea were to be applied to an individual it would definitely be racist. Each individual person must be judged based on their own character and abilities. To prejudge them based on their race is the very definition of racism.

Not accurate. Racism entails belief in another (entire) race being inferior to one's own race, or that one's own race is superior to another (entire) race of people. Pre-judging an individual on the basis of (perceived) race is demonstrating prejudice.

Just for a moment lets assume that it is true (not that I believe it is) that people of Asian heritage (btw if it is genetic it would be Asians, not just Asian-Americans) have a genetic make up that makes them excel in math. Even if this were true this would represent a group average, there still would be individuals within that group who do not excel in mathematics. So if you make an assumption that one specific individual is better at math than another specific individual based on race, that is would still be racism.

No, that would be stereotyping.

 

[Acim]

Characterizing a Trump apologist as a critical thinker is laughable.

Less laughable than not using critical thinking skills and assuming Trump made a racist comment because politically correct wannabes wish to believe he did.

 

[Acim]

But can stereotyping be based on reality (involving differences in genetics and not just environment)?

Possibly. You think you could provide an example that would not conflict with modern day scientific understandings? Like use men and women in your example, if that helps.

What if I believe that one ethnic group is better at a certain thing than another group but that the second group is better than the first group at other things. Is that belief racism?

I would say no. That's likely a whole lot of racial discrimination that wouldn't rise to level of racism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Acim, the best minds of the GOP (forgive the oxymoron) have characterized Trump's comments as racist and danced all manner of clumsy dances to disassociate themselves from Trump's rants. Have fun swimming upstream and pretending that it has something to do with critical thinking skills much less principles. You and your narcissistic scumbag are doing a marvelous job sewing the seeds of GOP defeat.

 

[George-ananda]

Possibly. You think you could provide an example that would not conflict with modern day scientific understandings? Like use men and women in your example, if that helps.

For example African American dominance over Asian Americans in sports requiring speed and power like American football let's say.

I would say no. That's likely a whole lot of racial discrimination that wouldn't rise to level of racism.

Well, thanks for your opinion. Quite a number of people would probably accuse me of evil views even if I was just considering the world objectively and expressing my opinions.