Misogyny in Game of Thrones?

[freethinker44]

In another thread a poster mentioned misogyny in Game of Thrones and I was genuinely surprised because I'm not seeing it. So I did a Google search and apparently there are a lot of people who feel it is misogynistic.

A lot of their complaints used specific examples of brutality against women, but it's a brutal show whether it's men, women, children, animals, etc, nothing is safe in Game of Thrones.

Another thing brought up as evidence of misogyny was the way Jeffrey treats women, but I actually think that's the opposite of misogyny because Joffrey is a typical one dimensional character and that dimension is evil. Nothing he does is to be considered good or moral, therefore Joffrey being misogynistic is actually misogyny is wrong.

Apart from the obvious misogynistic behavior that would be expected in a story set in medieval-like period with typical medieval laws and culture, let's discuss the misogyny in Game of Thrones. I've always felt that women were actually empowered in Game of Thrones. Arya, Catelyn, Daenerys, Melisandre, Ygrit, even Cersei, all very strong female characters, in fact I would almost safe the story is mostly about these characters.

Let's discuss.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a lot of mysoginy portrayed in Game of Thrones, no doubt. It is part of the premise. There are lots of awful situations and cultural traits, mysoginy is just one more among them.

But does the history condone mysoginy? I can't say that I think it does.

 

[freethinker44]

But does the history condone mysoginy? I can't say that I think it does.

That's what I'm thinking. It seems like when it's portrayed, it is portrayed negatively. Like with Joffrey or even Robert. He was a misogynist and was he some great hero? No, he was a fat slob who drank too much wine and was gored by hog, symbolism is obvious there. He was a pig, acting like a pig, and ultimately was killed by one. Message? Don't be a pig.

And look at the incredible misogynist Theon Greyjoy and what happened to him. He was completely emasculated.

Even horrible things happen to Sansa almost as a direct result of trying to fulfill an oppressive gender role.

So the themes throughout the story seems to be, if you're a misogynist horrible things will happen to you. It's almost predictable.

 

[Drolefille]

There is a lot of mysoginy portrayed in Game of Thrones, no doubt. It is part of the premise. There are lots of awful situations and cultural traits, mysoginy is just one more among them.

But does the history condone mysoginy? I can't say that I think it does.

I generally agree. I have seen arguments that GoT IS misogynist, but I don't particularly agree with them. I think that one could make the argument that at some points it feels gratuitous - and the TV show itself is excessive about showing boobs/sex scenes where you only see the woman, etc. But that's a symptom of greater media problems, not a criticism of one show.

 

[Erebus]

As far as fantasy series go, Game of Thrones is pretty even handed in its distribution of suffering, exploitation and humiliation The boys can be just as much a victim as the girls in this world and a woman can in fact rise to the top.
I suppose if you were going to criticize the show you could say that there is still more female flesh on display than male flesh. I don't know if this is a part of the setting or if it's a means of attracting the male audience in all honesty. Criticizing the brutality seems to miss the point really. Everybody can suffer and it's not like the show glorifies this. Even the deaths of hated characters aren't portrayed as a joyous occasion.

 

[Alceste]

I was disappointed that the TV show has so much T&A on display. Pretty blatant fan service, and never does a thing to advance the plot. In the books, very little time is spent on sexy scenes of any kind, and the female characters are well rounded, strong, complex, and their story lines get as much attention as those of the male characters. Definitely a let down for me. As a fan if the books, I get annoyed by something relating to the depiction of women in the series every episode. Last week, it was the half ***** attempt to deal with Arya's story, which seems to be overly representing the POV and experiences of the Hound - a minor male character who travels with her for a short time.

 

[Drolefille]

As far as fantasy series go, Game of Thrones is pretty even handed in its distribution of suffering, exploitation and humiliation The boys can be just as much a victim as the girls in this world and a woman can in fact rise to the top.
I suppose if you were going to criticize the show you could say that there is still more female flesh on display than male flesh. I don't know if this is a part of the setting or if it's a means of attracting the male audience in all honesty. Criticizing the brutality seems to miss the point really. Everybody can suffer and it's not like the show glorifies this. Even the deaths of hated characters aren't portrayed as a joyous occasion.

It's HBO and cable TV standards - seeing male genitalia is less acceptable than women's breasts AND a naked female is not necessarily showing genitalia (vulva, etc.) depending on her own body, body hair (or merkin which is a fun word) and positioning.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I thought the theme of GoT was "***** happens". Misogyny is just one of many flavors of *****.

 

[freethinker44]

I thought the theme of GoT was "***** happens". Misogyny is just one of many flavors of *****.

That sounds about right.

 

[Alceste]

I thought the theme of GoT was "***** happens". Misogyny is just one of many flavors of *****.

Yeah, but one has to wonder why HBO elected to add that theme in, seeing as it is not a theme that can be found in the books.

 

[freethinker44]

Yeah, but one has to wonder why HBO elected to add that theme in, seeing as it is not a theme that can be found in the books.

I don't think the show is any more misogynist than the books, at least the two I read.

 

[Alceste]

I don't think the show is any more misogynist than the books, at least the two I read.

Did the books you read waste chapter after chapter depicting the specifics goings on in Little finger's brothel and khal drogo's marital bed?

 

[freethinker44]

Did the books you read waste chapter after chapter depicting the specifics goings on in Little finger's brothel and khal drogo's marital bed?

I don't remember them spending that much time on them in the show. Actually, I remember the brothels being a bigger plot setting in the books than in the show and I thought Drogo and Danearys sexual encounters in the show was ripped right from the pages in the book, and if I remember correctly that was maybe 15 minutes of screen time spread over one or two episodes and I remember that being a bigger deal in the book than in the show too. Either way, neither of those seemed too misogynistic to me, sex with Drogo maybe, but only in the book because she was straight up raped several times by him, where in the show it seemed like he was just overly aggressive compared with her sexual inexperience.

 

[Alceste]

I don't remember them spending that much time on them in the show. Actually, I remember the brothels being a bigger plot setting in the books than in the show and I thought Drogo and Danearys sexual encounters in the show was ripped right from the pages in the book, and if I remember correctly that was maybe 15 minutes of screen time spread over one or two episodes and I remember that being a bigger deal in the book than in the show too. Either way, neither of those seemed too misogynistic to me.

We must be recalling the books differently then. I remember little finger's brothel being the background for a number of scenes of plotting and political intrigue, but never a scene of him "training" his whores or getting oral while spying on a client through a hole in the wall. Imo, those pointless HBO additions made him a different character, and less sympathetic.

Also, I remember Denaerys complaining to her servant about how boring her sex life with Drogo was, and the servant giving her some helpful tips to increase her pleasure (a very realistic scenario, am I right ladies?), but I don't recall anything about him commanding her to strip for him in public on their wedding day.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

In another thread a poster mentioned misogyny in Game of Thrones and I was genuinely surprised because I'm not seeing it. So I did a Google search and apparently there are a lot of people who feel it is misogynistic.

A lot of their complaints used specific examples of brutality against women, but it's a brutal show whether it's men, women, children, animals, etc, nothing is safe in Game of Thrones.

Another thing brought up as evidence of misogyny was the way Jeffrey treats women, but I actually think that's the opposite of misogyny because Joffrey is a typical one dimensional character and that dimension is evil. Nothing he does is to be considered good or moral, therefore Joffrey being misogynistic is actually misogyny is wrong.

Apart from the obvious misogynistic behavior that would be expected in a story set in medieval-like period with typical medieval laws and culture, let's discuss the misogyny in Game of Thrones. I've always felt that women were actually empowered in Game of Thrones. Arya, Catelyn, Daenerys, Melisandre, Ygrit, even Cersei, all very strong female characters, in fact I would almost safe the story is mostly about these characters.

Let's discuss.

I think a lot of people are just ornery from walking around with big, fat sticks shoved far up their rectums all the time.

 

[freethinker44]

We must be recalling the books differently then. I remember little finger's brothel being the background for a number of scenes of plotting and political intrigue, but never a scene of him "training" his whores or getting oral while spying on a client through a hole in the wall. Imo, those pointless HBO additions made him a different character, and less sympathetic.

That's right. He was more of an investor in the books, he owned them but didn't get involved really, except to meet with Ned Stark.

Also, I remember Denaerys complaining to her servant about how boring her sex life with Drogo was, and the servant giving her some helpful tips to increase her pleasure (a very realistic scenario, am I right ladies?), but I don't recall anything about him commanding her to strip for him in public on their wedding day.

In the book she was expected to consummate their marriage in front of everyone. All of their tribe had sex out in the open like that. She didn't and instead he just got drunk and raped her every night until her servant told her how to take charge and make it better for herself since it wasn't going to stop.

 

[Alceste]

I think a lot of people are just ornery from walking around with big, fat sticks shoved far up their rectums all the time.

Nah, we're just bookish snots who are never satisfied by the tv or movie versions of our favorite novels, and we like to make a point of saying so. Don't get me started in the walking dead.

 

[freethinker44]

I think a lot of people are just ornery from walking around with big, fat sticks shoved far up their rectums all the time.

Yup, agreed.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Nah, we're just bookish snots who are never satisfied by the tv or movie versions of our favorite novels, and we like to make a point of saying so. Don't get me started in the walking dead.

I try to look at books and their movie/tv counterparts as totally different entities. As far as the Walking Dead goes, they've somehow convinced millions of people that a boring, melodramatic soap-opera with nonsensical plots and annoying characters is somehow the best thing since sliced bread. Go figure.

 

[freethinker44]

Nah, we're just bookish snots who are never satisfied by the tv or movie versions of our favorite novels, and we like to make a point of saying so. Don't get me started in the walking dead.

I don't mind movies taking liberty with the books story. Some things don't really transfer easily and you get stuck with something like Lord of the Rings where a two hour story is stretched over nine hours and it's completely boring.