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Modern man like footprints found, evolution theory in doubt.

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Completely false. Science assumes that rapid continental separation/mountain building/worldwide volcanic activity, and etc were slow and all in a same state past. Therefore if much of the pre flood world was ploughed under, they would not know what to look for. They assume uniformity. They are so steeped in their baseless belief system they can't see the forest for the trees.

You are a record of superstitions believed in the present!
No, it is a written record of what went down.
Your opinion is biased and baseless.
Baseless?? Let's see.

Prediction of microwave background radiation spectrum vs data collected decades after the prediction was made. The prediction requires physics to work upto 13 billion years into the past.

images


If the whole universe really did begin in a hot dense state, then it must have released a great deal of light. As the universe expanded its temperature would cool, but we should still see a blackbody spectrum radiating from every direction. It turns out that is exactly what we see.The data matches the curve exactly. I mean really exact. The error bars on the data are too small to plot on this graph, and the curve still fits.

Predictions of the power spectrum of the background radiation vs data collected years after the prediction. This requires physics to be the same upto a fraction of a second after the Big Bang.

Planck_power_spectrum_orig.jpg

In the figure below, I’ve not only plotted the observed power spectrum as data points, I’ve also plotted a theoretical curve that agrees with the data. This theoretical curve is the shape you’d expect for a universe that is 74% dark energy, 22% dark matter, 4% regular matter (stars, planets and us), and is about 13.7 billion years old. We have other ways of determining each of these values, and they agree with these values.The amazing thing is that all these values fit in this single curve. If the values were different the peaks would shift left or right, or be higher or lower. While the image of the CMB is wonderful, with its swirls of color, this graph is even more wonderful. It tells us that our understanding of the universe is on track.
https://briankoberlein.com/2013/10/13/ripples-on-the-cosmic-pond/

Prediction of element abundance of the universe, confirmed by astronomical observations 50 years after prediction. Requires laws of atomic physics to be same since a fraction of a second after Big Bang.
The Abundance of Light Elements

The last big prediction, the existence and features of the cosmic neutrino background, has been confirmed from observations in 2016 seventy years after the prediction was made.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...big-bangs-last-great-prediction/#7b4a8f0130c7

The prediction of the neutrino background temperature was 1.95 K and the observation was 1.96 K with uncertainty of 0.02K.


Thus we see that by assuming uniformity of the laws of physics far back into the past till a millisecond after the Big Bang provides predictions of what can be observed today and the confirmation of these predictions with such accuracy provides excellent justification for our assumption of the uniformity of the laws of physics far far back into the past.

Can all observations match predictions exactly? Of course not. But neither do predictions of current phenomenon match experimental observations exactly. For laws always always makes simplification and do not capture every aspect of a phenomenon. In fact the matches above are far far better than many matches between theory and experiments in many fields of physics and chemistry.

For example even in 2017, there is 2-5% mismatch between theoretical predictions vs data of the burning products of a simple burner flame, and it's much greater for more complex flames in your car engines or airplanes. And still the physics is sufficient for planes and cars to work safely every single day.

images
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The last big prediction, the existence and features of the cosmic neutrino background, has been confirmed from observations in 2016 seventy years after the prediction was made.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...big-bangs-last-great-prediction/#7b4a8f0130c7

The prediction of the neutrino background temperature was 1.95 K and the observation was 1.96 K with uncertainty of 0.02K.

I don't know how I missed this, but it is flat-out cool. The prediction of the neutrino background temperature was something most people thought was currently untestable. That it comes out of the photon background radiation is just astounding!
 

dad1

Active Member
Baseless?? Let's see.

Prediction of microwave background radiation spectrum vs data collected decades after the prediction was made. The prediction requires physics to work upto 13 billion years into the past.
How would this be different from a creation microwave background? In other words if something real fast started the universe we would see leftovers. Whoopee do. It doesn't mean some idiotic big bang dunnit.
If the whole universe really did begin in a hot dense state,
Or if it was created.

then it must have released a great deal of light. As the universe expanded its temperature would cool, but we should still see a blackbody spectrum radiating from every direction. It turns out that is exactly what we see.The data matches the curve exactly. I mean really exact. The error bars on the data are too small to plot on this graph, and the curve still fits.
You are trying to claim credit for creation remnant background for your made up universe from nothing garbage.


Predictions of the power spectrum of the background radiation vs data collected years after the prediction. This requires physics to be the same upto a fraction of a second after the Big Bang.
Or creation...take your pick.


In the figure below, I’ve not only plotted the observed power spectrum as data points, I’ve also plotted a theoretical curve that agrees with the data. This theoretical curve is the shape you’d expect for a universe that is 74% dark energy, 22% dark matter, 4% regular matter (stars, planets and us), and is about 13.7 billion years old.
Utterly ridiculous. There is no dark energy or matter that is what you INVENTED TO EXPLAIN THE UNIVERSE IN FISHBOWL TERMS!


We have other ways of determining each of these values, and they agree with these values.
All based on trying to extrapolate earth rules and time and space in some godless foolishness frenzy.

The amazing thing is that all these values fit in this single curve.
Invented non existent dark matter and energy make up 95% of your data though. Circular religion!


If the values were different the peaks would shift left or right, or be higher or lower. While the image of the CMB is wonderful, with its swirls of color, this graph is even more wonderful. It tells us that our understanding of the universe is on track.
https://briankoberlein.com/2013/10/13/ripples-on-the-cosmic-pond/
Rubbish. If dark matter/energy existed you could use them, too bad they are invisible as a pink unicorn huh?
Prediction of element abundance of the universe, confirmed by astronomical observations 50 years after prediction. Requires laws of atomic physics to be same since a fraction of a second after Big Bang.
The Abundance of Light Elements
From your link

"Well, you know what? At some point, even before that, the Universe was hotter and denser, and you couldn’t even form stable nuclei, because things would bounce around with so much energy that they would dissociate even the smallest bound nuclei, like deuterium and helium. Well, when the Universe is hot enough, there are equal numbers of protons and neutrons. Then it cools down, and some of the neutrons decay radioactively, because neutrons are unstable. (That’s right, and that’s crazy. You take a typical proton, and it lives for at least 1034 years! But you take a typical neutron, and it’s gone within 15 minutes.)"

That point would be creation. Not some invented hot soup from which the universe sailed out of.

The last big prediction, the existence and features of the cosmic neutrino background, has been confirmed from observations in 2016 seventy years after the prediction was made.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...big-bangs-last-great-prediction/#7b4a8f0130c7

From your link

" In 1945, George Gamow made perhaps the greatest leap of all: the great leap backwards. If the Universe were expanding today, with all the unbound objects receding from one another, then perhaps that meant that all those objects were closer together in the past. "


Well forget expansion. That is based on believing time exists in the far universe with no proof at all. You cannot build on that foundation, it is bogus.

Thus we see that by assuming uniformity of the laws of physics far back into the past till a millisecond after the Big Bang provides predictions of what can be observed today and the confirmation of these predictions with such accuracy provides excellent justification for our assumption of the uniformity of the laws of physics far far back into the past.
No. We see you trying to invent dark stuff that is 95% of the universe just because you need it!

For example even in 2017, there is 2-5% mismatch between theoretical predictions vs data of the burning products of a simple burner flame, and it's much greater for more complex flames in your car engines or airplanes. And still the physics is sufficient for planes and cars to work safely every single day.
Let's talk about the wrong and failed predictions of your false prophets! You are like someone trying to say a psychic seemingly got a few things right, and never talk about the ones they got dead wrong!
 

dad1

Active Member
But you cannot know what those laws are, so there is little difference. We cannot know *anything* if you don't allow the present to give information about the past.
Science can't know. I can know a lot about how nature worked.
 

dad1

Active Member
I have a logical way out: use present physical laws to interpret the past. *You* have a severe problem because you *cannot* know how to interpret anything from the past.

You don't know. It is not logical to base things on a belief and lie to us that it is science.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
How would this be different from a creation microwave background? In other words if something real fast started the universe we would see leftovers. Whoopee do. It doesn't mean some idiotic big bang dunnit.
Or if it was created.

You are trying to claim credit for creation remnant background for your made up universe from nothing garbage.


Or creation...take your pick.


Utterly ridiculous. There is no dark energy or matter that is what you INVENTED TO EXPLAIN THE UNIVERSE IN FISHBOWL TERMS!


All based on trying to extrapolate earth rules and time and space in some godless foolishness frenzy.

Invented non existent dark matter and energy make up 95% of your data though. Circular religion!


Rubbish. If dark matter/energy existed you could use them, too bad they are invisible as a pink unicorn huh?
From your link

"Well, you know what? At some point, even before that, the Universe was hotter and denser, and you couldn’t even form stable nuclei, because things would bounce around with so much energy that they would dissociate even the smallest bound nuclei, like deuterium and helium. Well, when the Universe is hot enough, there are equal numbers of protons and neutrons. Then it cools down, and some of the neutrons decay radioactively, because neutrons are unstable. (That’s right, and that’s crazy. You take a typical proton, and it lives for at least 1034 years! But you take a typical neutron, and it’s gone within 15 minutes.)"

That point would be creation. Not some invented hot soup from which the universe sailed out of.



From your link

" In 1945, George Gamow made perhaps the greatest leap of all: the great leap backwards. If the Universe were expanding today, with all the unbound objects receding from one another, then perhaps that meant that all those objects were closer together in the past. "


Well forget expansion. That is based on believing time exists in the far universe with no proof at all. You cannot build on that foundation, it is bogus.

No. We see you trying to invent dark stuff that is 95% of the universe just because you need it!

Let's talk about the wrong and failed predictions of your false prophets! You are like someone trying to say a psychic seemingly got a few things right, and never talk about the ones they got dead wrong!
Your emotional outbursts are irrelevant. The simple fact that I have demonstrated is that by looking at current observations and laws of physics and projecting them back into the far past we have made a series of predictions about phenomena that were still undetectable at the time of the predictions. That later observations have unambiguously confirmed these predictions is resounding justification for believing in the uniformity of the laws of physics far far back into the past and the reality of the unfolding sequence of events from the moment of the Big Bang 13 billion years ago. We have provided evidence for our case, lots of it. Now the ball is on your court to come up better evidence that verifies your conjecture that the laws of physics were different in the past. Judging by your incoherent reply above, that does not seem likely.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Science can't know. I can know a lot about how nature worked.

Not without science, you can't/

Noah sent a bird out and it returned with a fresh leaf from a tree.

According to a story that you can have no reason to believe.

You don't know. It is not logical to base things on a belief and lie to us that it is science.

But it *is* science. That's what you consistently miss.

Who cares? Either science knows..or NOT.

Science has much more knowledge than your fairy tale stories.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
In the figure below, I’ve not only plotted the observed power spectrum as data points, I’ve also plotted a theoretical curve that agrees with the data. This theoretical curve is the shape you’d expect for a universe that is 74% dark energy, 22% dark matter, 4% regular matter (stars, planets and us), and is about 13.7 billion years old. We have other ways of determining each of these values, and they agree with these values.The amazing thing is that all these values fit in this single curve. If the values were different the peaks would shift left or right, or be higher or lower. While the image of the CMB is wonderful, with its swirls of color, this graph is even more wonderful. It tells us that our understanding of the universe is on track.
https://briankoberlein.com/2013/10/13/ripples-on-the-cosmic-pond/

Prediction of element abundance of the universe, confirmed by astronomical observations 50 years after prediction. Requires laws of atomic physics to be same since a fraction of a second after Big Bang.
The Abundance of Light Elements

The last big prediction, the existence and features of the cosmic neutrino background, has been confirmed from observations in 2016 seventy years after the prediction was made.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...big-bangs-last-great-prediction/#7b4a8f0130c7

The prediction of the neutrino background temperature was 1.95 K and the observation was 1.96 K with uncertainty of 0.02K.

Thanks for explaining, and for providing additional (and very useful) links.

I am still learning something new everyday about the cosmology, and physics.
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
How would this be different from a creation microwave background? In other words if something real fast started the universe we would see leftovers. Whoopee do. It doesn't mean some idiotic big bang dunnit.
Or if it was created.

You are trying to claim credit for creation remnant background for your made up universe from nothing garbage.


Or creation...take your pick.


Utterly ridiculous. There is no dark energy or matter that is what you INVENTED TO EXPLAIN THE UNIVERSE IN FISHBOWL TERMS!


All based on trying to extrapolate earth rules and time and space in some godless foolishness frenzy.

Invented non existent dark matter and energy make up 95% of your data though. Circular religion!


Rubbish. If dark matter/energy existed you could use them, too bad they are invisible as a pink unicorn huh?
From your link

"Well, you know what? At some point, even before that, the Universe was hotter and denser, and you couldn’t even form stable nuclei, because things would bounce around with so much energy that they would dissociate even the smallest bound nuclei, like deuterium and helium. Well, when the Universe is hot enough, there are equal numbers of protons and neutrons. Then it cools down, and some of the neutrons decay radioactively, because neutrons are unstable. (That’s right, and that’s crazy. You take a typical proton, and it lives for at least 1034 years! But you take a typical neutron, and it’s gone within 15 minutes.)"

That point would be creation. Not some invented hot soup from which the universe sailed out of.



From your link

" In 1945, George Gamow made perhaps the greatest leap of all: the great leap backwards. If the Universe were expanding today, with all the unbound objects receding from one another, then perhaps that meant that all those objects were closer together in the past. "


Well forget expansion. That is based on believing time exists in the far universe with no proof at all. You cannot build on that foundation, it is bogus.

No. We see you trying to invent dark stuff that is 95% of the universe just because you need it!

Let's talk about the wrong and failed predictions of your false prophets! You are like someone trying to say a psychic seemingly got a few things right, and never talk about the ones they got dead wrong!

I'd have to agree with you on the dark matter/dark energy and it's circular belief. However, not all human beings use it for that very reason.
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
Completely false. Science assumes that rapid continental separation/mountain building/worldwide volcanic activity, and etc were slow and all in a same state past. Therefore if much of the pre flood world was ploughed under, they would not know what to look for. They assume uniformity. They are so steeped in their baseless belief system they can't see the forest for the trees.

You are a record of superstitions believed in the present!
No, it is a written record of what went down.
Your opinion is biased and baseless.

I'd say that you are correct in that human beings "assume/believe" that constants were the same in past as are present. Absolutes/constants are certainly assumed/believed. I wouldn't call it "baseless" though. Many human beings also acknowledge this and if any assumed constants were to be found not constant after all, changes would be made. But even then, if constants were to be found not constant that may defy too much human bias, who is to say the evidence wouldn't be brushed aside or buried?
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
If there was no physics, there was no past, and thereby no humans (Noah) or a flood. Since literally *anything* could happen, you are, in essence, promoting Last Thursdayism (or a version of the Matrix).

Reasonable people don't go down your path.

Some are content, not concerned with the past or its accuracy or its curiousity. I wouldn't call them unreasonable.

Even folks who are skeptics as to the accuracy of the past, or believing alternative pasts, I wouldn't call them unreasonable.

Just as I wouldn't call anyone that assumes constants were always constants, unreasonable.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Some are content, not concerned with the past or its accuracy or its curiousity. I wouldn't call them unreasonable.

Even folks who are skeptics as to the accuracy of the past, or believing alternative pasts, I wouldn't call them unreasonable.

Just as I wouldn't call anyone that assumes constants were always constants, unreasonable.
Before you use the words "reasonable" or "unreasonable" you really must learn what they mean.
 
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