Mohammad's Message vs Jesus' Message

[Bismillah]

It's impressive after so much rambling I have yet to see you cite any passage between the two religions. How it is you are comparing them is a mystery.

 

[cocolia42]

states a sinner cannot punish a sinner, only god can punish sins. This message is exemplified by the story of the woman that was about to be stoned for adultery and Jesus intervened to prevent it.

Where does Jesus state a sinner cannot punish a sinner? The story you reference does not say that. First of all, the earliest manuscripts do not have John 7:53-8:11. Second, Deuteronomy 22:22 says

If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
​

The Pharisees did not bring the man to Jesus. Jesus would have known that both parties should be punished by death (not necessarily stoned). Jesus knew the Pharisees were trying to trap him (again).

 

[F0uad]

How about the fact that Mohammad cites old testament characters like Moses, Adam, heck all the prophets from the Hebrew religion or did you forget all those guys came from the Hebrews?

Islam teaches that its one religion so that the Hebrew revelation to Moses and Jesus(peace be upon them) were indeed from god therefore its logical that the story repeats itself in the other revelation to Mohammed(saws). You didn't address my argument why cannot this be said about Jesus(p) or Moses(p)?

Look of the all the citings of Jesus forgiving sins that is a power only god can have.

Have you actually ever read the Bible or the Quran?

And your right secular systems have violated those rights but I can justfiably say what they did was wrong and even act against them! Where as religions can't pass that judgement or act against its prophets or leaders because they rationalize the command to violate those rights came from god.

The Quran is not the same as the Bible each story in the Quran has a moral and a why. So if your argument is true should America not have invaded Europe when Germany took power to free Europe?

 

[Leonardo]

Islam teaches that its one religion so that the Hebrew revelation to Moses and Jesus(peace be upon them) were indeed from god therefore its logical that the story repeats itself in the other revelation to Mohammed(saws). You didn't address my argument why cannot this be said about Jesus(p) or Moses(p)?

So in effect you are claiming that the Hebrews are infact Islamic, meaning submitting to god?

The Quran is not the same as the Bible each story in the Quran has a moral and a why. So if your argument is true should America not have invaded Europe when Germany took power to free Europe?

Germany was freeing Europe, please explain?

 

[fallingblood]

Mohammad borrowed most of his ideas from the Old Testament so I'm not comparing apples to oranges. Jesus performs miracles and forgives sins. Forgiving sins is not allowed in Jewish law only god can forgive sins and that is also what the Muslims believe. Jesus states he has god like powers where Mohammad does not but does have the authority to execute people! These two polarizations are at odds and yet both Jesus and Mohammad believed Moses was guided by god who was indeed a tyrant! Where Mohammad is more like Moses and Jesus is more like King Solomon.

In either case if you haven't noticed both the apple and the orange revolve around the same religion and neither would stand up to modern ethics and standards for human rights...

Mohammad did not borrow most of his ideas from the OT. Such a statement leads me to think that you have never read the Quran, or other writings associated with him.

Jesus never forgives anyone sins. At times, he does state that "your sins are forgiven," but so do priests and the like. That doesn't mean they are the ones actually forgiving sins themselves, but that their sins are forgiven. There is a difference. The fact that someone was healed was a sign that their sins were forgiven. And if you look at when Jesus states that someone's sins were forgiven, it was in the context of a healing. The two went hand in hand. God forgave their sins, and they were healed. Jesus was just a meditator. This is where background information in the time, and Jewish culture would help you.

Jesus also never claims to have God like powers. Others may have, but Jesus certainly did not. If you read any of the literature on the historical Jesus, you would see this.

I also don't see how Jesus is like King Solomon. Solomon was a womanizer (he after all had like a thousand wives), he was a very stringent leader, as in he overworked his people (in fact, this is a reason why the country end up breaking into two nations). Jesus is none of those. In fact, Jesus is usually more associated with King David.


Finally, you are comparing apples and oranges. Jesus never created a religion. Muhammad did. Jesus never had to set up rules and regulations, as the religion he was preachings already had those. Muhammad had no such thing, he had to start nearly from scratch. Jesus, according to Jewish law, would not have the authority to actually inflict punishment (Jewish culture is something you need to understand to have a meaningful conversation on this subject). Muhammad did as he was the founder of his religion. Apples and oranges.

 

[Leonardo]

Mohammad did not borrow most of his ideas from the OT. Such a statement leads me to think that you have never read the Quran, or other writings associated with him.

Right...So his whole concept of god and all his rantings about talking with prophets from the OT are what? LOL

Jesus never forgives anyone sins. At times, he does state that "your sins are forgiven," but so do priests and the like. That doesn't mean they are the ones actually forgiving sins themselves, but that their sins are forgiven. There is a difference. The fact that someone was healed was a sign that their sins were forgiven. And if you look at when Jesus states that someone's sins were forgiven, it was in the context of a healing. The two went hand in hand. God forgave their sins, and they were healed. Jesus was just a meditator. This is where background information in the time, and Jewish culture would help you.

Jesus also never claims to have God like powers. Others may have, but Jesus certainly did not. If you read any of the literature on the historical Jesus, you would see this.

I find it halarious that you are contradicting what every Christian sect believes, I guess they're all misinterpreting the Gospels...

I also don't see how Jesus is like King Solomon. Solomon was a womanizer (he after all had like a thousand wives), he was a very stringent leader, as in he overworked his people (in fact, this is a reason why the country end up breaking into two nations). Jesus is none of those. In fact, Jesus is usually more associated with King David.

Wow, can we be so objective at this comparison or is religion actually so subjective that this argument is a complete waste of time...

Finally, you are comparing apples and oranges. Jesus never created a religion. Muhammad did. Jesus never had to set up rules and regulations, as the religion he was preachings already had those. Muhammad had no such thing, he had to start nearly from scratch. Jesus, according to Jewish law, would not have the authority to actually inflict punishment (Jewish culture is something you need to understand to have a meaningful conversation on this subject). Muhammad did as he was the founder of his religion. Apples and oranges.

Right, start from scratch? Again; why would Mohammad use the Hebrew notions of god if he actullay started from scratch?...

 

[fallingblood]

Right...So his whole concept of god and all his rantings about talking with prophets from the OT are what? LOL

Read what I actually stated. I know it may be hard, but please do so before responding to me.

I find it halarious that you are contradicting what every Christian sect believes, I guess they're all misinterpreting the Gospels...

I doubt you know what nearly any Christian sect stands for. I'm following mainline scholarship, which is produced primarily from individuals associated with different denominations. In fact, this stuff is also taught in seminaries. Please just deal with the information instead of making comments from ignorance.

Right, start from scratch? Again; why would Mohammad use the Hebrew notions of god if he actullay started from scratch?...

I said nearly from scratch. As in, not completely from scratch. Meaning, he did borrow somewhat from others. Again, read what I actually said. It would go a long way.

 

[Leonardo]

Read what I actually stated. I know it may be hard, but please do so before responding to me.
I doubt you know what nearly any Christian sect stands for. I'm following mainline scholarship, which is produced primarily from individuals associated with different denominations. In fact, this stuff is also taught in seminaries. Please just deal with the information instead of making comments from ignorance.

I said nearly from scratch. As in, not completely from scratch. Meaning, he did borrow somewhat from others. Again, read what I actually said. It would go a long way.

I view your approach and the many scholars that do the same, to elevate religion beyond what it is, laughable.

Religion is only interesting from an social dynamic and anthropological perspective. How religion glues societies together and how religion induces personal motives and coping mechanisims, is fanciating. How you would like to interpret those religious writings..not so interesting...

 

[FearGod]

Mohammad’s story is very charismatic in that it describes an illiterate man who ultimately conquers and converts the entire Middle East and northern Africa to his religious beliefs. Mohammad’s doctrine is similar to Moses’ in carry out punishments. Mohammad claims Jesus as a prophet but unlike Mohammad Jesus never outlined punishments for sins, in fact it is the opposite Jesus states a sinner cannot punish a sinner, only god can punish sins. This message is exemplified by the story of the woman that was about to be stoned for adultery and Jesus intervened to prevent it.

Muslims argue that Jesus foretells of Mohammad’s coming in the New Testament in the Gospel of John as the “Paraclete”. How can Muslims cite the New Testament foretelling the coming of Mohammad as prophetic and yet reject those very same texts becasue they are in conflict with Islamic teacings?

According to the holy quran there is no stoning,but a hundred stripes

((AS FOR the adulteress and the adulterer – flog each of them with a hundred stripes, and let not compassion with them keep you from [carrying out] this law of God, if you [truly] believe in God and the Last Day; and let a group of the believers witness their chastisement.)) (24:2)

But your logic that sinner shouldn't punish sinner which means that we have to cancel all
kind of punishments and to leave judgement and punishment to god ,our world then
will be like living in a jungle,that make no sense at all.

Kill is a sin,and we should leave the sinner for god to punish him,because we are all sinners,
rape is a sin,we should free the rapist to be punished by god,because we are all sinners.

 

[cocolia42]

Mohammad did not borrow most of his ideas from the OT. Such a statement leads me to think that you have never read the Quran, or other writings associated with him.

Jesus never forgives anyone sins. At times, he does state that "your sins are forgiven," but so do priests and the like. That doesn't mean they are the ones actually forgiving sins themselves, but that their sins are forgiven. There is a difference. The fact that someone was healed was a sign that their sins were forgiven. And if you look at when Jesus states that someone's sins were forgiven, it was in the context of a healing. The two went hand in hand. God forgave their sins, and they were healed. Jesus was just a meditator. This is where background information in the time, and Jewish culture would help you.

Jesus also never claims to have God like powers. Others may have, but Jesus certainly did not. If you read any of the literature on the historical Jesus, you would see this.

I also don't see how Jesus is like King Solomon. Solomon was a womanizer (he after all had like a thousand wives), he was a very stringent leader, as in he overworked his people (in fact, this is a reason why the country end up breaking into two nations). Jesus is none of those. In fact, Jesus is usually more associated with King David.


Finally, you are comparing apples and oranges. Jesus never created a religion. Muhammad did. Jesus never had to set up rules and regulations, as the religion he was preachings already had those. Muhammad had no such thing, he had to start nearly from scratch. Jesus, according to Jewish law, would not have the authority to actually inflict punishment (Jewish culture is something you need to understand to have a meaningful conversation on this subject). Muhammad did as he was the founder of his religion. Apples and oranges.

Wow! I find it very interesting that you start this post with

Such a statement leads me to think that you have never read the Quran, or other writings associated with him.

and finish it with

Jesus never created a religion. Muhammad did.

Muhammad did not create a religion. He was a prophet from the God of Abraham, that would be the same God that sent the prophets Jacob, Moses, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Jesus...
Perhaps you have never read the Qur'an?

42:13 He has made plain to you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah and which We have revealed to thee, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish religion and not to be divided therein...

29:46 And Argue not with the People of the Book except by what is best, save such of them as act unjustly. But say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him we submit.
​

 

[Leonardo]

But your logic that sinner shouldn't punish sinner which means that we have to cancel all
kind of punishments and to leave judgement and punishment to god ,our world then
will be like living in a jungle,that make no sense at all.

Kill is a sin,and we should leave the sinner for god to punish him,because we are all sinners,
rape is a sin,we should free the rapist to be punished by god,because we are all sinners.

That is not my logic but an impression some Christians have, after all a Catholic preiest will not turn in a serial killer for confessing murders!

 

[fallingblood]

Muhammad did not create a religion. He was a prophet from the God of Abraham, that would be the same God that sent the prophets Jacob, Moses, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Jesus...
Perhaps you have never read the Qur'an?

42:13 He has made plain to you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah and which We have revealed to thee, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish religion and not to be divided therein...

29:46 And Argue not with the People of the Book except by what is best, save such of them as act unjustly. But say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him we submit.
​

Mohammad is generally considered to be the founder of Islam. This is a historical statement, not one based on the a holy book.

 

[F0uad]

So in effect you are claiming that the Hebrews are infact Islamic, meaning submitting to god?

No Christian or Jew would disagree that the prophets and messengers were submitting to God call it Muslim or submitter doesn't matter.

Germany was freeing Europe, please explain?

Reading is not very hard try it again.



Your contradicting yourself in some posts first you claim that Mohammed(saws) made a new religion then you claim he didn't.

You claim that Christians belief Jesus(p) forgives the sins then you claim it are sects that belief so

You claim that Jesus(p) is like King Solomon(p) but you clearly didn't read the scripture.


Before you start a thread bashing religions and making false statements about them please take some time to study and research these religions.

 

[FearGod]

Mohammad is generally considered to be the founder of Islam. This is a historical statement, not one based on the a holy book.

Mohammed pbuh didn't find Islam,but Islam was there since Adam pbuh.

Job 22:21
“Submit to God and be at peace with him; in this way prosperity will come to you.

This is the meaning of the word islam as in job 22:21

 

[cocolia42]

Mohammad is generally considered to be the founder of Islam. This is a historical statement, not one based on the a holy book.

yes, I hear Christians say it quite often. Do Muslims? Technically, God founded Islam and Adam was the first Muslim.[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Verdana,Albertus Medium][FONT=univers,helvetica][FONT=Times,Times New Roman,CG Times][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[fallingblood]

yes, I hear Christians say it quite often. Do Muslims? Technically, God founded Islam and Adam was the first Muslim.[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Verdana,Albertus Medium][FONT=univers,helvetica][FONT=Times,Times New Roman,CG Times][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

I'm saying this from a historical perspective. When looking at Islam, the founder that we can see is Mohammad. If nothing else, he is the one who brought Islam to light. We can say this from a historical perspective because Islam, as far as we can see, was not an apparent religion until Mohammad.

 

[Bismillah]

yes, I hear Christians say it quite often. Do Muslims? Technically, God founded Islam and Adam was the first Muslim.

I don't see any problem with it the Prophet Muhammad established what was revealed to him and founded the religion that was passed down unto him.

Adam was the first Muslim in the sense that he obeyed and worshiped Allah. However each revelation bought a different Shari'ah to a particular people (such as the Injil and Torah) whereas as Islam was, at its inception, a religion for all of mankind.

 

[Leonardo]

No Christian or Jew would disagree that the prophets and messengers were submitting to God call it Muslim or submitter doesn't matter.

Reading is not very hard try it again.



Your contradicting yourself in some posts first you claim that Mohammed(saws) made a new religion then you claim he didn't.

You claim that Christians belief Jesus(p) forgives the sins then you claim it are sects that belief so

You claim that Jesus(p) is like King Solomon(p) but you clearly didn't read the scripture.


Before you start a thread bashing religions and making false statements about them please take some time to study and research these religions.

You're response is absolutely ridiculous!

 

[F0uad]

You're response is absolutely ridiculous!

How so? Calling something ridiculous without actually pointing out why it is, is ridiculous.

 

[fahad_Muhammadi]

Mohammad is generally considered to be the founder of Islam. This is a historical statement, not one based on the a holy book.

christianity was a sect of Judaism, not more then it.... St. paul founded christianity as a new religion