Mom unapologetically raising kid without religion

[TransmutingSoul]

I’d argue that is an ongoing process. But the way I see it, dogma (usually religious but can be applicable to secular values to a degree) impedes that process by eliciting a degree of hubris which stagnates that process. We must be willing to accept that we all have shortcomings and that we are still learning. But if one has the “Truth” TM how does one adjust to a changing world? How does one correct themselves when they think they speak for a God?

That would be a sound and progressive argument. I see Faith is progressive, but has set boundaries. As it is progressive I see those boundaries are given in each age.

We can control the hubris by knowing that no individual man speaks for God, unless they are of God. It is God that sends a Message. We can can only search for and find wisdom in that Message.

If we as humanity decide to add to it, then we get a society like we have today. Confused as to what is right and what is wrong.

I see children need to be taught about all Faiths and all the good they offer. They can then make, as an adult, informed decisions. They should not be fed distortions about faith. Thus we are now looking at a world wide effort to educate children in the earliest years based on virtues, morals and accurate portrayal of Faiths. That will allow later years for the growth of knowledge not based on predudices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Apologies to any anarchists reading on, but yes, I agree.



No-one. Only by combining our collective talents and skills can we do this. If we absolutely have to put all the power in the hands of one person, I'll reluctantly volunteer, but that's purely because I don't trust anyone else to get it right, not because I'd do a good job.

The reply also needs a funny

Regards Tony

 

[icehorse]

'suggest that raising your children with secular morality is highly beneficial, saying that these children are “less vengeful, less nationalistic, less militaristic, less authoritarian, and more tolerant.'

So a non-religious upbringing makes you more sheep like

Wow! THAT was a leap and a half!

Wanna connect a few dots there?

 

[icehorse]

Another insightful article from the perspective of the non-believer.

Nice article. Hitchens used to say that many religions describe a "celestial dictatorship". "Much like North Korea only worse, because at least in North Korea, when you die, they can't get their hands on you anymore."

 

[SomeRandom]

That would be a sound and progressive argument. I see Faith is progressive, but has set boundaries. As it is progressive I see those boundaries are given in each age.

We can control the hubris by knowing that no individual man speaks for God, unless they are of God. It is God that sends a Message. We can can only search for and find wisdom in that Message.

If we as humanity decide to add to it, then we get a society like we have today. Confused as to what is right and what is wrong.

I see children need to be taught about all Faiths and all the good they offer. They can then make, as an adult, informed decisions. They should not be fed distortions about faith. Thus we are now looking at a world wide effort to educate children in the earliest years based on virtues, morals and accurate portrayal of Faiths. That will allow later years for the growth of knowledge not based on predudices.

Regards Tony

To think we can temper our own hubris is at best naive. Anyone can claim they are “of God.” Many have throughout history and caused splintering cells of various religious types.

Seeking God is a personal matter, but it can’t dictate secular law because not everyone will seek God or want to. We have to accomodate that mindset as well. We will stumble and fall but we cannot rely on God or wisdom or prophets, we have to dictate our own destiny and take ownership of our responsibilities to our community.

Morals change religion to religion and even age to age.
I’m all for religious education covering a broad range of religions across the world. But I don’t hold your optimism in eliciting the outcome that you predict. Some religions actively advocate against certain education.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Just to make it clear, I wasn't actually talking about you specifically or your own personnal beliefs and values on which I know pretty much nothing since I don't know you nor do I know what's your faith (I suspect some form of Christianity). I was making a point on the fact that some religious people teaches values derived from their personnal faith that are harmful. Some, often the same, teach their children very false things that have very bad impact on their children's life. Some, often the same as the two precedent, encourage or even force their children to be isolated from the rest of society. These are very bad things. They aren't strictly confined to religious people either. While much less heard from, it could be possible to see some secular people do the very same thing with similarly bad results. In other words, I was making a point against sectarism and cultism.

For the record, while I'm not Christian or religious and have a strong moral opposition to many doctrines and values of Christianity, I don't think Christianity has a whole is harmful for while I might be opposed to many of it's doctrines and values, a religion is more then just as set of doctrines, morals and sacred texts. It's also a community of people who all perceive and incarnate those values and doctrines differently.

I will also take some offense to the fact you basically present my values and beliefs as being no difference then some sort of caricatural version of nihilism and individualism both of which are basically anathema to humanism.

But you didn't say "some". You made a blanket statement that came across as extremely ignorant of what the average Christian is like (backwoods hicks that never talk to anyone). Chances are, you know a Christian or two, but they probably will not tell you so. Today's Christians are extremely closeted, despite an age of so-called "religious tolerance" (what this really means is extreme antipathy toward Christianity, which has become more and more live and let live since the Reformation, while tolerating religions that don't tolerate Western civilization).

I'm a syncretic Christian with Buddhist, Taoist, and some New Age thought but I'm a bit more aggro than most of these religions, since I don't really like taking garbage from ppl.

I have known several ex-Christians. Without exception, all of them are at some level nihilistic. They can't help but be, there is no guiding sense of hope for their life. And no, I don't believe that Christianity is the only way to God, despite Jesus saying this (I believe he was referring to a personal relationship with the divine). I read that statement a different way. The point is, without religion of any sort, I see a few main behaviors.
Either (1) they support throwing hard objects at people who disagree with them (these are not devout Christians), (2) are in love with Big State despite history repeatedly showing us that we cannot trust our government to protect us once we are disarmed, (3) believe in overpopulation and want to sterilize themselves or others even with little or no travel to verify that other areas are as populated, (4) they are transgender (see above on sterilizing) and taking hormones that heighten depression and mood swings, (5) actively trying to cause their own deaths through poor decisions, (6) depressed, or (7) hedonistic.

I know this, because I have been in this exact place. Without a purpose that keeps you going, you become lost in crappy ideas, almost like this.

Oh yes, they seem good at the time, but unlike you who are backpedaling to "some" I honestly can say that none of the people I have known have ever made perfect decisions. Not one of them.

 

[Darkforbid]

Wow! THAT was a leap and a half!

Wanna connect a few dots there?

Give me a link to the 'secular morality' handbook and I will

 

[icehorse]

Give me a link to the 'secular morality' handbook and I will

Personally, I prefer people who are moral because it's the right thing to do, over people who are moral because they're afraid of being punished (by god).

 

[epronovost]

Oh yes, they seem good at the time, but unlike you who are backpedaling to "some" I honestly can say that none of the people I have known have ever made perfect decisions. Not one of them.

I would like to underline that I didn't "backpedal" to some. I infer "some" in my precedent post which you decided to either ignore or didn't understoof and, now further miscontrue. You also seem to be unwilling to extend the same sympathy I did to you and your beliefs to me and mine. I would like to mention that there is several ex-Christian on this forum and though I'm not one of them being born and raised in an atheist family, in my own personnal experience most ex-Christian aren't miserable or nihilist (not that nihilist are necessarily unhappy either).

 

[Darkforbid]

Personally, I prefer people who are moral because it's the right thing to do, over people who are moral because they're afraid of being punished (by god).

To what morality standard?

 

[Regiomontanus]

Another insightful article from the perspective of the non-believer.



I Am Unapologetically Raising My Daughter Without Religion

"I focus on the fact that her action was wrong because it hurt someone."


On what basis is it wrong? Because she said so? What if someone thinks differently?

Mark 12:31

 

[icehorse]

To what morality standard?

Well philosophers having been debating that question for centuries. In my experience, most people think that some variation of the Golden Rule is a good moral standard, and most people want to be healthy. So to me, a practical, common-sense morality boils down to pursuing the well being of conscious creatures. And I understand that not everyone agrees with that. But it's also the case that the various religions also can't agree on a single moral standard.

So again, I prefer people who aren't behaving morally out of fear.

 

[epronovost]

"I focus on the fact that her action was wrong because it hurt someone."


On what basis is it wrong? Because she said so? What if someone thinks differently?

Mark 12:31

On the basis that it hurts somone. She spells out the rationnal in the same sentence.

 

[Regiomontanus]

To what morality standard?

LOL, I posted the same question below

 

[LuisDantas]

Personally, I prefer people who are moral because it's the right thing to do, over people who are moral because they're afraid of being punished (by god).

Say that again, brother.

 

[Regiomontanus]

On the basis that it hurts somone. She spells out the rationnal in a single sentence.

Yes but WHY is it wrong to hurt someone?

 

[Regiomontanus]

Say that again, brother.

WHY is it the right thing to do?

 

[Darkforbid]

Well philosophers having been debating that question for centuries. In my experience, most people think that some variation of the Golden Rule is a good moral standard, and most people want to be healthy. So to me, a practical, common-sense morality boils down to pursuing the well being of conscious creatures. And I understand that not everyone agrees with that. But it's also the case that the various religions also can't agree on a single moral standard.

So again, I prefer people who aren't behaving morally out of fear.

So how is this mum teaching her children secular morality?

 

[epronovost]

Yes but WHY is it wrong to hurt someone?

The "no harm" axiom is a basis for morality. It's technically irreducible, but if you want the opinion of a universal prescriptivist on the subject. It's wrong to hurt someone because it's not conductive to the objective of morality itself which is, to put it simply, people living and flourishing together. Hurting people will, in the vast majority of instences, prevent people from living and flourishing together (exceptions may apply).

 

[Subduction Zone]

So how is this mum teaching her children secular morality?

Probably the same way that all mothers teach morality. Do you think that the average Christian pulls out the Bible to do so? Or that Muslim mothers get out their Quran?