Morality: Objective or Relative?

[McBell]

But on the societal level, all our countries have laws against them. Hence, they are objectively moral at the societal level.

Thus reinforcing my first post in this thread...

It is immoral to do to another that which if done to you, would cause you harm or pain.

I am curious how masochism fits into such a definition of moral?

 

[ArtieE]

Present an objective moral please.

The objective process of evolution and natural selection resulted in a survival instinct so murder is objectively wrong.

 

[ArtieE]

I am curious how masochism fits into such a definition of moral?

Do to others what you want others to do to you. Two masochists would be following the Golden Rule.

 

[ArtieE]

There is still the question of context. Self-defense, for example, is generally not regarded as immoral, but in most cases you are causing intentional harm to another.

The other person initiated the immoral act of trying to cause harm. You are preventing the other person causing harm.

 

[Musty]

I believe there is general principle underpinning morality of wanting to act in the best interests of ourselves and those within our moral circle. There is an element of objective morality since, by a large, most people will agree on core fundamental issues but he issue of relativism arises when it comes to the details. For example most of us accept that it's wrong to abuse children but we can't always agree what constitutes abuse and argue over issues such as corporal punishment in schools. Alternatively we accept that killing is generally wrong but when someone does something terrible many people advocate the death sentence for that individual.

One of the core problems in the world is that individuals moral circles are often defined along lines of cultural identify, social standing, religion, race, sexuality and politics to name a few. The perpetrators of crimes often don't consider their actions to be immoral because they don't consider their victims to be worthy of moral consideration. There are exceptions to this such as cases where the person is suffering from mental illnesses or is under strong social pressure to take part in the crime, especially where with the possibility of being subject to violence themselves if they don't take part.

I generally think that most people are decent within the context of their lives.

 

[ArtieE]

I believe there is general principle underpinning morality of wanting to act in the best interests of ourselves and those within our moral circle.

True. We are programmed by evolution and natural selection with certain instincts such as the survival instinct and the instinct to reproduce etc.

There is an element of objective morality since, by a large, most people will agree on core fundamental issues

The morality doesn't depend on what most people agree on but on what evolution and natural selection has programmed into us.

but the issue of relativism arises when it comes to the details. For example most of us accept that it's wrong to abuse children but we can't always agree what constitutes abuse and argue over issues such as corporal punishment in schools. Alternatively we accept that killing is generally wrong but when someone does something terrible many people advocate the death sentence for that individual.

We are just trying to determine the moral action which is the one that brings the least amount of pain and death to the least amount of people.

One of the core problems in the world is that individuals moral circles are often defined along lines of cultural identify, social standing, religion, race, sexuality and politics to name a few. The perpetrators of crimes often don't consider their actions to be immoral because they don't consider their victims to be worthy of moral consideration. There are exceptions to this such as cases where the person is suffering from mental illnesses or is under strong social pressure to take part in the crime, especially where with the possibility of being subject to violence themselves if they don't take part.

True. The world has become so complicated that we often don't have every detail necessary to determine whether something is moral or not. So we can only do the best we can.

 

[McBell]

Lots of gymnastics in this here thread..

 

[Revoltingest]

Lots of gymnastics in this here thread..

And contortion!