Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
When dealing with normal, mentally functioning human beings?
Why or why not?
Why or why not?
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Morality = The Golden Rule
- Thread starter Just_me_Mike
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Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Buddhism
“Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.”
“One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter.”
Baha'i Faith
“Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not.”
“Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.”
“And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself.”
Christianity
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
Confucius
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."
Hinduism
“One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. This, in brief, is the rule of dharma. Other behavior is due to selfish desires.”
Islam
“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.”
Jainism
“Nothing which breathes, which exists, which lives, or which has essence or potential of life, should be destroyed or ruled over, or subjugated, or harmed, or denied of its essence or potential.
In support of this Truth, I ask you a question - "Is sorrow or pain desirable to you ?" If you say "yes it is", it would be a lie. If you say, "No, It is not" you will be expressing the truth. Just as sorrow or pain is not desirable to you, so it is to all which breathe, exist, live or have any essence of life. To you and all, it is undesirable, and painful, and repugnant."
Judaism
“You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Sikhism
“Whom should I despise, since the one Lord made us all.”
Taoism
“The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful.”
“Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss.”
“Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.”
“One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter.”
Baha'i Faith
“Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not.”
“Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.”
“And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself.”
Christianity
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
Confucius
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."
Hinduism
“One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. This, in brief, is the rule of dharma. Other behavior is due to selfish desires.”
Islam
“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.”
Jainism
“Nothing which breathes, which exists, which lives, or which has essence or potential of life, should be destroyed or ruled over, or subjugated, or harmed, or denied of its essence or potential.
In support of this Truth, I ask you a question - "Is sorrow or pain desirable to you ?" If you say "yes it is", it would be a lie. If you say, "No, It is not" you will be expressing the truth. Just as sorrow or pain is not desirable to you, so it is to all which breathe, exist, live or have any essence of life. To you and all, it is undesirable, and painful, and repugnant."
Judaism
“You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Sikhism
“Whom should I despise, since the one Lord made us all.”
Taoism
“The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful.”
“Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss.”
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It all boils down mutual benefit and rational self-interest.
Adso
Member
No, of course not. It's a nice thought, and wonderful advice, but it is by no means a system of morals. For example: I could crawl unannounced into a girls' bed and rationalize it by arguing I would not have minded if she had done the same to me. Technically, I would have followed the Golden Rule adequately enough, but obviously my actions were immoral.
Aside from it's failure to deal with humans ability for cold, rational calculation, it all too easily transforms from "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you" into "Do unto others as you believe what they wish to do unto you." Scary stuff.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
This doesn't sound right in bold. See OP, and the part about normally functioning humans.
If you can state someone sneaking into a girls house and getting into bed with her normal, please stay away from me
MSizer
MSizer
I agree that the golden rule is at the heart of morality, but I believe that simply following the golden rule isn't quite enough. Consider for example how the Jews tend to view the golden rule. They make the distinction that what you like may not be what I like, whereas we all tend to dislike the same things (things that harm us). Therefore, their version of the golden rule is "Do not unto others as you would not have done unto you". It sounds like symantecs at first, but it's a valid distinction. I think the golden rule is the foundation for morality, but reasoned reflection is necessary in all situations to make any good moral deliberation. For example, I might hate the idea of being carved for my organs when I die, but you may feel it's your duty to allow it. I think if we don't go beyond the golden rule in such a situation, we'll fail to make fully considered moral deliberations.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Perhaps... But the golden rule itself is full of interpretation, which should cover the areas you speak of. So as you say it is the foundation, and even IMO still connected to whatever else is needed for situations like the ones you bring up.
The version you suggested the Jews use, is called the Silver Rule, and I am not sure how I feel about it, I don't quite understand the difference yet. Also, I would suggest all Jews think that way.
Adso
Member
"Normally functioning human" is a rather broad description. How are you defining it? People do horrible things all the time who are of sound mind and body. If someone does something wrong and you place them into the category of not being a normal functioning human, the argument will only become circular. If the Golden Rule is only effective with minor issues, than obviously it's a horrible moral system that would only be suitable for dinner parties and golf courses.
I never said anything about sneaking into a house...If you can state someone sneaking into a girls house and getting into bed with her normal, please stay away from me
Guys take advantage of girls all the time. Try finding a bar where a guy isn't trying to take advantage of a girl who is deep in the arms of Bacchus. It's horrible, but quite common.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
You're right! you said crawling, and that is a far stretch from someone in a bar with other people who ALL know what is going on.
Adso
Member
Guys take advantage of girls. I provided the example of a bar. You can apply my argument to a number of situations. Here's another example if you'd feel more comfortable with it:
A thief rationalizes stealing on the grounds of a belief that he wouldn’t miss that which was stolen were the thief himself the prospective victim.
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Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Uh, but she wouldn't have liked it....
so your argument is garbage
...
funny to see a "Christian" arguing against, what is essentially, Christ's fundamental message
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
all those poor women having mutually accepted sexual relationships with each other
Its a wonder the anti christ hasnt arrived yet, to sterelise sinners:sarcastic
Adso
Member
That's irrelevant. The question was posed was if the Golden Rule = morality. I provided an example that in purely logical terms shows that not to be the case as humans can rationalize around it while still technically being in accordance with the Golden Rule.
As I said before, it's a fine piece of advice and wisdom, but by itself is too simple and easily avoidable while doing what you want, not to mention the second point I made in my first post.
It's half of His fundamental message. The other half was to love God and be obedient to His will.
I'm not arguing against it, I am arguing that it is incomplete and insufficient as a moral system on its own.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It's better than morality = golden shower.
Adso
Member
Ummm, okay... I was addressing men who take advantage of woman. I frankly don't care whatsoever about any mutually accepted sexual relationship.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
"taking advantage"
that would be against the golden rule
thus making your arguemnt once again....invalid:yes:
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Adso
Member
How is that against the Golden Rule? The Golden Rule isn't a cemented principle. It's based on the individuals reasoning of a situation.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
My problem with the "golden rule" is some people like having chairs, thumb tacks, barbed wire, or other things smashed into their skull, or slammed onto. When I use to wrestle, my perspective of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" changed drastically. I'd do thumb tacks, they can sting like hell, and definitely do hurt for a moment, but when someone is willing to be hit in the head with a 2x4 wrapped in real barbed wire, that is ok, but just don't hit me with it, because I was very fond of setting tables on fire before powerbombing my opponent through it. Or a chokeslam, much safer and easier to perform, and more people are willing to take them.