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Morality

Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
waitasec said:
lack of empathy is a disorder because all social animals must have this quality in order to survive in a social environment...natural selection.
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Empathy isn't as simple as you think it is. We can all observe how empathetic the food chain is.

But I wasn't disagreeing with you. I just don't think disorders are the only source for immorality, because we've all acted immorally. We don't all have antisocial disorders.

you know you're setting yourself up...

where does our sense of morality come from...? definitely not from god because our sense of morality can be traced to humans being social animals.
simple.
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I'm not setting myself up. I proved my point, and you're reiterating. I told you that it was based on experiences, and that experiences change. Now, you're saying it's social. Social norms change.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
But I wasn't disagreeing with you. I just don't think disorders are the only source for immorality, because we've all acted immorally. We don't all have antisocial disorders.
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some people are just jerks, and some are ignorant...too.
your examples are far from the norm, imo.


I'm not setting myself up. I proved my point, and you're reiterating. I told you that it was based on experiences, and that experiences change. Now, you're saying it's social. Social norms change.
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did i say they don't? :no:
i was only commenting on the examples you gave as i think they are not good examples of what we call normal sense of morality.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
waitasec said:
some people are just jerks, and some are ignorant...too.
your examples are far from the norm, imo.


did i say they don't? :no:
i was only commenting on the examples you gave as i think they are not good examples of what we call normal sense of morality.
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And I agree. As far as I can tell, they aren't normal. But, that's also why I wrote them. I wanted to see how far people can push their morality, hypothetically, at least.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Daviso452 said:
After having a discussion with Call of the Wild recently, I have come to realize that all of morality is subjective, and that there is no truly objective morality. Unless you believe in God.

From an atheist's perspective, morality is based upon the idea for a better society, and one idea that has been shown to work is the idea of "consider others as yourself" (Buddha), or in other words "Do unto others as you would do unto you" (Jesus).

Both ultimately result in a kind, caring, and understanding world. Not perfect, but peaceful. It leads to helping others in need, not putting yourself before others, not discriminating, and overall a happy place. However it will be a long time before this happens.

But the wanting a better society in of itself is subjective. It isn't a "fact" that we should have a better society; it's just our opinion. So, ultimately, there is not objective morality, which is, in of itself, an artificial creation
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Why is a kind, caring, and understanding world, even if peaceful, better than a violent, anti-survival, and mass murdering world?
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Sleeppy said:
Of course its a reality. People just mold it, or perceive it in different ways.
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Yes, people have their morality, doesn't make it true. Gandhi's morality was no better than Hitler's unless you are looking for a "peaceful" and "returned to nature" world, but why do you need a peaceful world? It's not better or worse than a progressive and destructive world.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
And I agree. As far as I can tell, they aren't normal. But, that's also why I wrote them. I wanted to see how far people can push their morality, hypothetically, at least.
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gotcha...but you are applying subjective morality as though it was absolute morality...that's how i see it.

female circumcision is abhorred in western society, but there are other societies that deem that as norm...
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The Sum of Awe said:
Yes, people have their morality, doesn't make it true. Gandhi's morality was no better than Hitler's unless you are looking for a "peaceful" and "returned to nature" world, but why do you need a peaceful world? It's not better or worse than a progressive and destructive world.
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To me, it makes more sense for a living being to want peace.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Daviso452 said:
Then morality is subjective. You want to live in peace, but you don't have to. There is no objective morality, because morality is an artificial concept.
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It depends where you place the peace. Everything does need peace, in some degree, to exist.

You can't exist if conflict prevents it.
 
Daviso452

Daviso452

Boy Genius
Sleeppy said:
It depends where you place the peace. Everything does need peace, in some degree, to exist.

You can't exist if conflict prevents it.
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Who said you had to exist? Is it not possible humans are just a by-product of a chemical reaction?
 
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