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More News on the Changing Evolution Scene :-) !!! :-)

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So you use the word on purpose to intentionally obfuscate the conversation?
Why would an honest person be interested in doing such a thing?
Just like some others here do not say humans are apes, I don't believe in your form of evidence proving or indicating evolution per the theory of the Darwinian concept. No proof, evidence in your mind leads up to conclude (accuse, convict?) Darwin's theory. Not to obfuscate, you can say humans are apes, I do not believe even if you do, that they are apes. You are obviously free to believe whatever you want. So no proof necessary, as you say. Or do you not say? You're funny. No proof or evidence to show that fish evolved to be landrovers.
 

GardenLady

Active Member
Because for one thing, as I understand it, "Lucy's" feet were never found. Therefore posing her as a hairy female (very hairy) with feet and breasts is a stupid ridiculous depiction.

Wow. Now you are really reaching into the absurd. The feet are not necessary at all to classifying Lucy. Do you think that if Lucy's feet were not found, we could not know she walked upright? Upright posture is obvious in the anatomy of head & neck, spine, and hips.

Or maybe you are really off the deep end and assume she didn't have feet?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Because for one thing, as I understand it, "Lucy's" feet were never found. Therefore posing her as a hairy female (very hairy) with feet and breasts is a stupid ridiculous depiction.
No, the "stupidity", as you so arrogantly call it, is all yours.

The reason why we have artists' depictions in anthropology is because it's difficult for most to just look at bones and get a general picture of what a fossil would look like in real life. It would be like going to a funeral parlor of someone that you don't know, and when the casket is opened all you see are bones. With this in mind:

Did Lucy have hair? Well, we all have hair somewhere, but there's a variable we see in the primate line whereas if one was living in the African region and in either full or significant sunlight, either they would have to have either dark skin, or lotsa hair, or both; unless the skin was leathery like a rhinoceros.

Also, we know she was a female, thus she would have had breasts if she was a "teen" or older. But what we don't know is whether the breast stood out as with modern women or deflated when not lactating as with other primates.

We have to assume she walked, but what is important is the positioning of the leg bones to give us an indication how she may have walked v climbed or both [probably the latter]. In this case, her leg bones indicate that she most likely walked upright.

I hate to say this, but you really need to get over yourself as you come off as being a kind of "know it all" in an area you obviously are not very familiar with. If I'm at a doctor's office and he diagnoses me with having a medical issue, would I say that's "stupid ridiculous" if I'm not educated medically myself?

The point is you do yourself a great disservice with your behavior here at times, so maybe consider asking questions before assuming that someone else's post is "stupid ridiculous".
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I can see you just like to argue. And you don't back up your accusations, kind of like almost a theory. Without proof and in your case, evidence. As in ... Evolution.
No, I like to educate. You do not want to learn. You are merely looking for excuses to believe. And I backed up all of my accusations.

Tell me which one you did not think was backed up and I will explain it further to you. You should be able to understand this.
And can you please quit lying. I posted to you the definition of evidence and explained how observations fit into that definition. I can go back and find the post and quote it. If you did not understand you should have said so when I posted. There is endless evidence for the theory of evolution and there is endless "proof".
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Because for one thing, as I understand it, "Lucy's" feet were never found. Therefore posing her as a hairy female (very hairy) with feet and breasts is a stupid ridiculous depiction.
So what? They never found her feet. Do you seriously think that she is the only Australopithecus africanus that they ever found? Feet of Australopitecenes have been found. There is no problem with their feet.

By the way, you just tipped your hand again. This is an argument from a lying source. If you rely on liars why should anyone trust you?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So what? They never found her feet. Do you seriously think that she is the only Australopithecus africanus that they ever found? Feet of Australopitecenes have been found. There is no problem with their feet.

By the way, you just tipped your hand again. This is an argument from a lying source. If you rely on liars why should anyone trust you?
Did they find Lucy's feet? In that picture presented, was it "Lucy"? Like in the old ad, where's the meat? Where's the feet?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Did they find Lucy's feet? In that picture presented, was it "Lucy"? Like in the old ad, where's the meat? Where's the feet?
Are you not paying attention? They do not need her feet.

If someone was making a sculpture of you do they need your feet or would they be accurate enough if they copied the feet of another human? That is what they did with Lucy.

Please stop using lying sources.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, the "stupidity", as you so arrogantly call it, is all yours.

The reason why we have artists' depictions in anthropology is because it's difficult for most to just look at bones and get a general picture of what a fossil would look like in real life. It would be like going to a funeral parlor of someone that you don't know, and when the casket is opened all you see are bones. With this in mind:

Did Lucy have hair? Well, we all have hair somewhere, but there's a variable we see in the primate line whereas if one was living in the African region and in either full or significant sunlight, either they would have to have either dark skin, or lotsa hair, or both; unless the skin was leathery like a rhinoceros.

Also, we know she was a female, thus she would have had breasts if she was a "teen" or older. But what we don't know is whether the breast stood out as with modern women or deflated when not lactating as with other primates.

We have to assume she walked, but what is important is the positioning of the leg bones to give us an indication how she may have walked v climbed or both [probably the latter]. In this case, her leg bones indicate that she most likely walked upright.

I hate to say this, but you really need to get over yourself as you come off as being a kind of "know it all" in an area you obviously are not very familiar with. If I'm at a doctor's office and he diagnoses me with having a medical issue, would I say that's "stupid ridiculous" if I'm not educated medically myself?

The point is you do yourself a great disservice with your behavior here at times, so maybe consider asking questions before assuming that someone else's post is "stupid ridiculous".
It is the basic foundation, sorry if I wasn't the most tactful.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It is the basic foundation, sorry if I wasn't the most tactful.
You would think that if the basic foundation of evolution was flawed you could find one. You are merely grasping at straws with this extremely foolish "Where were her feet?" question.

Once again, could an artist make a fairly accurate statue of you head to toe without seeing your feet?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Are you not paying attention? They do not need her feet.

If someone was making a sculpture of you do they need your feet or would they be accurate enough if they copied the feet of another human? That is what they did with Lucy.

Please stop using lying sources.
Perhaps Metis can tell you more about Lucy's feet. Or maybe you can google it. Also, the depictions of Lucy -- are they testable reconstructions?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Perhaps Metis can tell you more about Lucy's feet. Or maybe you can google it. Also, the depictions of Lucy -- are they testable reconstructions?
I already know about Lucy's feet. There are reasonable deductions that can be made from other bones. And once again, Lucy is an Australopithecus afarensis, just as you are a homo sapiens.

Would a sculptor have to see your feet to make a reasonable facsimile or are you Bigfoot's cousin? If you have the bones from the feet of another Australopithecus afarensis why is that not good enough?

And why are you nit picking on the feet? Feet are not that important of an evolutionary feature of man anyway.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You would think that if the basic foundation of evolution was flawed you could find one. You are merely grasping at straws with this extremely foolish "Where were her feet?" question.

Once again, could an artist make a fairly accurate statue of you head to toe without seeing your feet?
The feet of Lucy were rather important to discern how close she was to human. Or maybe chimpanzee. As a matter of fact, latest research is saying that 'she' fell from a tree. Broke a lot of bones. Further, more "research" shows that depictions can be really off.
Human ancestor 'Lucy' gets a new face in stunning reconstruction (msn.com)
"assumptions that aren't testable with current science, including whether these ancient species looked more like apes or modern humans, and how their soft tissues, including their muscles and the thickness of their skin, appeared"
Untestable with current science?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The feet of Lucy were rather important to discern how close she was to human. Or maybe chimpanzee. As a matter of fact, latest research is saying that 'she' fell from a tree. Broke a lot of bones. Further, more "research" shows that depictions can be really off.
Human ancestor 'Lucy' gets a new face in stunning reconstruction (msn.com)
"assumptions that aren't testable with current science, including whether these ancient species looked more like apes or modern humans, and how their soft tissues, including their muscles and the thickness of their skin, appeared"
Untestable with current science?
LOL! It does not matter if she died falling out of a tree. That does not mean that she was not bipedal. Her hips are a far stronger piece of evidence that she walked as we do. Here is an image of her hips along with human and chimpanzee hips:

rstb20140063f01.jpg


And another:

rstb20140063f03.jpg


https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2014.0063

Clearly Lucy was far more "human" than chimpanzee.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I already know about Lucy's feet. There are reasonable deductions that can be made from other bones. And once again, Lucy is an Australopithecus afarensis, just as you are a homo sapiens.

Would a sculptor have to see your feet to make a reasonable facsimile or are you Bigfoot's cousin? If you have the bones from the feet of another Australopithecus afarensis why is that not good enough?

And why are you nit picking on the feet? Feet are not that important of an evolutionary feature of man anyway.
Yes, "Lucy's" feet are very important in determining certain things about the animal. Now the current issue is that she fell out of a tree because her bones were broken.
Lucy's Demise: What Killed the Most Famous Fossil | Discover Magazine
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
LOL! It does not matter if she died falling out of a tree. That does not mean that she was not bipedal. Her hips are a far stronger piece of evidence that she walked as we do. Here is an image of her hips along with human and chimpanzee hips:

rstb20140063f01.jpg


And another:

rstb20140063f03.jpg


https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2014.0063

Clearly Lucy was far more "human" than chimpanzee.
She wasn't human, and she wasn't a chimpanzee, right? Still doesn't prove/ add evidence to evolution. What is proves/shows is that some animal bones were found that look somewhat like chimpanzee/human bones.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
She wasn't human, and she wasn't a chimpanzee, right? Still doesn't prove/ add evidence to evolution. What is proves/shows is that some animal bones were found that look somewhat like chimpanzee/human bones.

It is evidence for human evolution. Please do not give me any more of this "does not prove" crap. You know that is wrong. An honest person would quit making that argument.

Do we need to go over the concept of evidence again? You were given a burden of proof. You could not meet it. Continued denial in the face of your failure is not proper.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
LOL! It does not matter if she died falling out of a tree. That does not mean that she was not bipedal. Her hips are a far stronger piece of evidence that she walked as we do. Here is an image of her hips along with human and chimpanzee hips:

rstb20140063f01.jpg


And another:

rstb20140063f03.jpg


https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2014.0063

Clearly Lucy was far more "human" than chimpanzee.
From the article, near the end -- (endnotes) -- "Hominins are defined those members of our lineage, both living humans and our extinct relatives, that are more closely related to ourselves than to apes. All known hominins are identified as being bipedal" Lucy is not considered human by scientists, is she?
 
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