Mormon Church has $100 BILLION

[Twilight Hue]

Organized religion seems to be little more than a money making scheme.

Jailbird Jim Bakker is even selling phony cures for corona virus to his mouth-breathing audience.

Its a no brainer. Just think about it. Look at how many times Peter Popoff has been nationally exposed as a fraud, declare bankruptcy and closes down only to pop up like a bad zit people clamoring to give him money more than ever.

It's why I don't feel sorry for the congregation anymore.

 

[SoyLeche]

I retrieved a source, and then forgot to post it.
Mormon Church Reportedly Amassed $100 Billion Fund For ‘Second Coming Of Christ’

Ok. That’s an older article. The one I linked to gives more nuance.

 

[Watchmen]

Where are you getting that number from for the Catholic Church?

It's similar to other reports I've seen for Vatican City, but every Catholic diocese (roughly equivalent to a stake in LDS terms) is incorporated as a separate legal entity, so it wouldn't include the vast majority of the assets that the Church controls through its bishops.

From the WSJ.

 

[SoyLeche]

From the WSJ.

Like the penguin - that’s close to the number I’m seeing for the Vatican. I’m seeing comparable numbers for the Catholic Church in Germany and in Australia, which seem to be separate from the Vatican’s money.

 

[Salvador]

At what point do you actually start using some of that money for good rather than waiting for the so-called end times?

On a separate note, appears they have sound financial strategies (such as staying out of debt). Although $7B in tithing per year helps.

Perhaps we should agree what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does with their wealth is nobody else's business outside the followers and church leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Perhaps we should agree what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does with their wealth is nobody else's business outside the followers and church leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Well, no. As a church, they're effectively subsidized by the government. This means that what they do is everybody's business.

 

[Salvador]

Well, no. As a church, they're effectively subsidized by the government. This means that what they do is everybody's business.

In Utah, most state legislators are LDS Church members; they do practically run the state government of Utah. My concern is if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were taxed by the federal government, then the state of Utah might then want to secede from the United States.

 

[dianaiad]

They allegedly keep it around because the belief it be needed when Jesus returns. Because, ya know, a god needs money.

No, my friend. God doesn't.

But the people who may be burned out, flooded out, shot out, bombed out, hungry and ill WILL.

Two things here:

The LDS church has, arguably, the most efficient and best welfare system there is. Period. It's a whole bunch better than the US government.

That's one.

The second thing is this: what difference does any of this make to you? Tje vast majority of those funds come from contributions from fully taxed corporations that the church owns....exactly the way many, many religious organizations own businesses in order to help fund their efforts.

So those funds ARE taxed. Just like anybody else's funds are taxed.

As I have posted before now, I have to ask what you want? Do you want to double and triple tax churches over and above what secular businesses get, because you don't like religions?

I mean really; do YOU declare your 401K principal AS INCOME every year? As in, if you begin with twenty grand in 2018, did you declare that $20 grand AS INCOME again in 2019? But you are demanding that the LDS church do that. You are demanding, not that the churches be taxed like anybody else, but that they be taxed harder than anybody else, because you don't like the church.

What I see is someone who is jealous. You see an organization that is doing very well, helping others, managing it's expenses, education and welfare, taking care of not only its congregation but also sending LOTS of money and volunteers to others, and you are envious. You don't like it, so you are criticizing it.

And you can't even point to people making money off of it. No mansions. No fancy helicopters or private planes. No out of reason incomes, because nobody in the church leadership is getting any of that sort of thing.

Nobody is selling anything. All our publications are free...go to lds.org, and you can have access to everything, up to and including audio versions. We don't charge for lessons, and we SURE don't 'sell blessings.' As members, we know precisely what tithing does, and what welfare fund donations are for.

In fact, the only thing you can criticize is that the church actually succeeds in what it claims to do with the money it has.

And it is none of your business...unless perhaps your own congregation loses it's meeting house through some natural disaster, or everybody around you gets flooded out. Then you will find a bunch of Mormons volunteering to help you out, rebuild your meeting house and handing out supplies.

So get over it.

You and others who are critical of that "100B' are just "sour grapes"-ing things, and you know it. You have been treated with kindness and soft arguments, but I, for one, don't have the patience for such. The objection is asinine, and I'll tell it as I see it.

 

[Watchmen]

Perhaps we should agree what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does with their wealth is nobody else's business outside the followers and church leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Oh, if you even knew...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In Utah, most state legislators are LDS Church members; they do practically run the state government of Utah. My concern is if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were taxed by the federal government, then the state of Utah might then want to secede from the United States.

Seems like an unrealistic concern to me.

I'm willing to say that businesses should be taxed like businesses, even if they're owned by churches.

 

[tas8831]

I don’t disagree with you in many cases, but I’m not finding any individuals getting rich off of the Mormon church. I may be missing some though.

Individuals, perhaps not - though I am betting the Elders (or whatever they are called) are living pretty comfortably.

 

[tas8831]

Its a no brainer. Just think about it. Look at how many times Peter Popoff has been nationally exposed as a fraud, declare bankruptcy and closes down only to pop up like a bad zit people clamoring to give him money more than ever.

It's why I don't feel sorry for the congregation anymore.

Isn't the Popoff story bizarre? I mean, the guy was caught red-handed defrauding his flock, and they just ran right back to him.

THAT is some serious cultism stuff...

 

[dianaiad]

Individuals, perhaps not - though I am betting the Elders (or whatever they are called) are living pretty comfortably.

Define 'comfortably.' MOST of them come from private industry or from areas of expertise that paid them very well. We don't have a 'paid clergy,' y'know. That is, our local leaders don't get paid by the church at all. They must all earn their own livings. It's not until they reach 'General Authority' status, where they have to spend all their time (and a lot of travel) that they get stipends from the church, and even then, ALMOST every time, the stipend they get is considerably less than the income they enjoyed previously.

In other words, they pretty much all of 'em get massive pay cuts.

And none of 'em own private planes or yachts...unless they bought same with money they earned BEFORE working for the church, and I honestly don't know of any who do.

(shrug) the problem here is that you guys really can't find anything to criticize unless you make stuff up. So we might have a whole bunch of money stored up 'in reserve,' BECAUSE we don't spend it on the stuff you hate the most. It's a reserve to be sure we can continue the services we provide so very well.

And nobody here can claim that we DON'T do things like welfare, contributions, disaster relief, infrastructure support very well indeed.

 

[paarsurrey]

At what point do you actually start using some of that money for good rather than waiting for the so-called end times?

On a separate note, appears they have sound financial strategies (such as staying out of debt). Although $7B in tithing per year helps.

If it has been collected just for Jesus in Second Coming in End of Times, then that has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1838-1908.
Right, please?

Regards

 

[tas8831]

Define 'comfortably.' MOST of them come from private industry or from areas of expertise that paid them very well. We don't have a 'paid clergy,' y'know. That is, our local leaders don't get paid by the church at all. They must all earn their own livings. It's not until they reach 'General Authority' status, where they have to spend all their time (and a lot of travel) that they get stipends from the church, and even then, ALMOST every time, the stipend they get is considerably less than the income they enjoyed previously.

In other words, they pretty much all of 'em get massive pay cuts.

And none of 'em own private planes or yachts...unless they bought same with money they earned BEFORE working for the church, and I honestly don't know of any who do.

(shrug) the problem here is that you guys really can't find anything to criticize unless you make stuff up. So we might have a whole bunch of money stored up 'in reserve,' BECAUSE we don't spend it on the stuff you hate the most. It's a reserve to be sure we can continue the services we provide so very well.

And nobody here can claim that we DON'T do things like welfare, contributions, disaster relief, infrastructure support very well indeed.

Blah blah blah.

Keep worshipping your masters....

 

[dianaiad]

Blah blah blah.

Keep worshipping your masters....

Yep, you have no comment or reasonable response to the content, so you go for the ad hominem. Yep, that shows us all who won this one.

Like the grade school bully who grabs the ball and runs off the field yelling 'nya, nya, if I can't win the game YOU'RE the one who is stupid!"

Riiiiiight.

 

[Watchmen]

Define 'comfortably.' MOST of them come from private industry or from areas of expertise that paid them very well. We don't have a 'paid clergy,' y'know. That is, our local leaders don't get paid by the church at all. They must all earn their own livings. It's not until they reach 'General Authority' status, where they have to spend all their time (and a lot of travel) that they get stipends from the church, and even then, ALMOST every time, the stipend they get is considerably less than the income they enjoyed previously.

In other words, they pretty much all of 'em get massive pay cuts.

And none of 'em own private planes or yachts...unless they bought same with money they earned BEFORE working for the church, and I honestly don't know of any who do.

(shrug) the problem here is that you guys really can't find anything to criticize unless you make stuff up. So we might have a whole bunch of money stored up 'in reserve,' BECAUSE we don't spend it on the stuff you hate the most. It's a reserve to be sure we can continue the services we provide so very well.

And nobody here can claim that we DON'T do things like welfare, contributions, disaster relief, infrastructure support very well indeed.

Forget about the individuals in leadership. The organization has $100 billion and asks those with nothing to give 10% or else they can’t receive the fullness of the gospel in the temple. Does that not seem at least a little bit immoral to you?

 

[paarsurrey]

If it has been collected just for Jesus in Second Coming in End of Times, then that has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1838-1908.
Right, please?

Is it not appropriate, therefore, that the Mormons transfer this amount to Ahmadiyya Muslim Community to enhance the peaceful movement in America related to the Second Coming of Jesus/Messiah/Imam-Mahdi, please?

Regards

 

[SoyLeche]

Forget about the individuals in leadership. The organization has $100 billion and asks those with nothing to give 10% or else they can’t receive the fullness of the gospel in the temple. Does that not seem at least a little bit immoral to you?

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread: the primary purpose of tithing is not the funding of the church. It has been and always will be an issue of faith and sacrifice.

If you want to argue that the church should be spending the money doing good, or that maybe they should give a "dividend" or something, that's fine. I wouldn't say you were wrong if you think that the reserve is excessive. Expecting that the church would pull back the commandment that has been around for several thousand years because it is somehow not needed though, is unreasonable.

 

[Watchmen]

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread: the primary purpose of tithing is not the funding of the church. It has been and always will be an issue of faith and sacrifice.

And yet tithing does exactly that — it funds the church. Jesus wasn’t a multi-billion dollar organization. Maybe it’s the church that should make sacrifices rather than it’s members.