Mormon Church has $100 BILLION

[dianaiad]

I don’t have a problem. I’m pointing out an immoral practice. And you don’t speak for the collective members of the Mormon church. I bet there are many that DO have a problem with it.

If you think it is immoral enough to make a public statement about it, then you have a problem with it.

I'm telling you that you don't have the right to 'have a problem' with the policies, beliefs and procedures of belief systems you don't belong to and which do not affect you, any more than I have a 'right' to demand that Catholic priests marry.

Not your problem.

Any LDS who DOES have a problem may certainly refuse to participate, and that's not your problem either.

 

[dianaiad]

What is the source for your claim that the $100 BILLION has already been taxed?

Because the church, unlike many other evangelical organizations, doesn't attempt to put the businesses it owns into tax free status.

Because the proof here isn't on the side of the folks saying 'prove that you paid taxes.' It's on the side of the church...and the IRS...saying 'prove that it wasn't."

I don't see the IRS getting all hot and bothered about this, do you?

But YOU folks seem to want to make sure that it IS taxed, whether it was properly taxed at acquisition or not...and the problem, to you, is the principal, not any income.

Am I wrong?

It's the amount that bothers you, not 'income?"

It's hypocrisy. Pure sour grapes and hypocrisy. You can't criticize the church for what it does....in terms of welfare and charity it does a better job than pretty much anybody..or for what the individual leaders do...because nobody is getting wealthy or buying air conditioned dog houses or supporting mistresses or jetting around in private aircraft. All you have is that the church has done a GOOD JOB of accumulating the funds it uses to BE one of the best at welfare, etc.

So you want the government to take it all away. Well guess what: the government has done that to us already, more than once. If we've figured out how to keep it from doing so AGAIN, that's ....not your problem.

 

[Watchmen]

If you think it is immoral enough to make a public statement about it, then you have a problem with it.

I'm telling you that you don't have the right to 'have a problem' with the policies, beliefs and procedures of belief systems you don't belong to and which do not affect you, any more than I have a 'right' to demand that Catholic priests marry.

Not your problem.

Any LDS who DOES have a problem may certainly refuse to participate, and that's not your problem either.

This is a religious debate forum. Your constant refrain of “It’s not your problem” isn’t an argument. It’s just burying your head in the sand. It’s not unique to you. Many Mormons do this on various topics and criticisms of their religion.

Again, I’m not demanding anything and I don’t have a “problem,” whatever that means. I’m pointing out an immorality.

You certainly have the “right” to opine on Catholic celibacy vows on an online religious forum.

You also don’t know me or my history. Your Mormon Church counts me as a member so perhaps I do have a “right” to have a “problem” with the church under your arbitrary rules.

 

[dianaiad]

What is the source for your claim that the $100 BILLION has already been taxed?

Where is your proof that it has not been? After all, isn't that what all the sturm and drung is about, the claim that somehow this money has not been taxed?

There is NO evidence that the church has done anything illegal, and there is a lot of evidence that all the businesses it owns are fully taxed corporations.

So the burden of proof here is on the accuser. Namely, you.

 

[Watchmen]

Because the church, unlike many other evangelical organizations, doesn't attempt to put the businesses it owns into tax free status.

Because the proof here isn't on the side of the folks saying 'prove that you paid taxes.' It's on the side of the church...and the IRS...saying 'prove that it wasn't."

I don't see the IRS getting all hot and bothered about this, do you?

But YOU folks seem to want to make sure that it IS taxed, whether it was properly taxed at acquisition or not...and the problem, to you, is the principal, not any income.

Am I wrong?

It's the amount that bothers you, not 'income?"

It's hypocrisy. Pure sour grapes and hypocrisy. You can't criticize the church for what it does....in terms of welfare and charity it does a better job than pretty much anybody..or for what the individual leaders do...because nobody is getting wealthy or buying air conditioned dog houses or supporting mistresses or jetting around in private aircraft. All you have is that the church has done a GOOD JOB of accumulating the funds it uses to BE one of the best at welfare, etc.

So you want the government to take it all away. Well guess what: the government has done that to us already, more than once. If we've figured out how to keep it from doing so AGAIN, that's ....not your problem.

A few points:

1. Not once have I said the Church should be taxed. Please don’t make assumptions. Poor form.

2. I believe the IRA is investigating the whistleblower complaint.

3. I haven’t advocated the government taking it all away. Again, don’t make assumptions, work on your reading comprehension, and stop the attacks.

4. You still haven’t answered my question. What is the source for YOUR claim that the $100 BILLION was already taxed?

 

[Watchmen]

Where is your proof that it has not been? After all, isn't that what all the sturm and drung is about, the claim that somehow this money has not been taxed?

There is NO evidence that the church has done anything illegal, and there is a lot of evidence that all the businesses it owns are fully taxed corporations.

So the burden of proof here is on the accuser. Namely, you.

I haven’t claimed that the $100 BILLION wasn’t taxed. My understand is what soy leche already posted, which is that portion of money generated through for-profit corporations run by the Church was taxed.

Stop suggesting I made claims I didn’t. It’s uncouth.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would say a shadow organization owned by the church is a pretty big problem....

Ensign Peak Advisors

 

[SoyLeche]

I would say a shadow organization owned by the church is a pretty big problem....

Ensign Peak Advisors

I think it’s probably fairly common, but I don’t know for sure.

 

[SoyLeche]

It is if they're involved in the stock market with for-profit corporations. You can't say that it could possibly be tax-free. There's a reason why organizations are granted nonprofit status. If they involve themselves with for-profit corporations, they should be taxed accordingly.

Let's look at it this way....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...619bd2-2004-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html

How in the hell is that even justifiable?

Forbes article on the subject:

$100 Billion In Mormon Till Does Not Merit IRS Attention

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think it’s probably fairly common, but I don’t know for sure.

You're probably right. I would say evangelical organizations and even governments pretty much do the same, but I do say shadow companies and organizations comes across as being a pretty shady set up, no matter who does it.

 

[SoyLeche]

I think I’ve said it earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating.

I would love to see more transparency in the church’s finances. I would even be okay with the government somehow requiring it.

I also have no problem with churches being taxed on their non-charitable activities - and, no, missionary work is not charity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was curious on how 100 billion dollars could be put into perspective.

All I can say is wow!

 

[SoyLeche]

I was curious on how 100 billion dollars could be put into perspective.

All I can say is wow!

Have you seen “Brewster’s Millions”? It’s worth a watch.

realistically, the church should treat this like an endowment. Spend what they need to on operations and such from what they have coming in, and the rest of that plus about 5B per year from income on the 100B on charitable causes. That should be about what it would take to keep the 100B at roughly that level in perpetuity and do probably a good 7-8B annually doing good.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

(shrug) the problem here is that you guys really can't find anything to criticize unless you make stuff up.

This is what I see the most of on this site.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I don’t have a problem. I’m pointing out an immoral practice. And you don’t speak for the collective members of the Mormon church. I bet there are many that DO have a problem with it.

I am a member and I have no issue with it and I cannot fathom how it is immoral in any way.

 

[Watchmen]

I am a member and I have no issue with it and I cannot fathom how it is immoral in any way.

Really? You can’t fathom how it is immoral in any way?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm telling you that you don't have the right to 'have a problem' with the policies, beliefs and procedures of belief systems you don't belong to and which do not affect you, any more than I have a 'right' to demand that Catholic priests marry.

The LDS Church - like every church - gets subsidized by taxpayers in the form of the services it receives without paying for them. Individual LDS Church members - like members of every church - get tax credits for donating money to their church.

This makes the finances of all those churches everybody's business.

If you don't want interference from outsiders, then don't expect them to pay for your religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am a member and I have no issue with it and I cannot fathom how it is immoral in any way.

Matt 6:19-21:

"19 “Do not accumulate for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth[a] and devouring insect destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and devouring insect do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your[c] treasure[d] is, there your heart will be also."

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Really? You can’t fathom how it is immoral in any way?

Nope.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Matt 6:19-21:

"19 “Do not accumulate for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth[a] and devouring insect destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and devouring insect do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your[c] treasure[d] is, there your heart will be also."

You're silly.

The Lord never claimed that money was inherently evil - just that we should not seek it at the expense of our heavenly treasures.