Mormon Church has $100 BILLION

[Watchmen]

The Church does not bestow any blessings.

No one needs to pay tithing in order to partake of the Sacrament.

No one needs to pay tithing in order to be baptized.

No one needs to pay tithing in order to be saved.

I see where your cutoff line is. Very good. Shows you know exactly what I’m talking about but are afraid to admit it.

 

[Watchmen]

The Church cannot bestow or withhold blessings of any kind.

All people are invited to worship Christ with us. Even LGBT people.

I have yet to see any hateful or discriminatory policies in the Church.

That’s laughable. Or perhaps you’re not aware somehow of the well publicized backtracking the Church did after implementing homophobic policies that harmed children.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

What gain? $7 billion in annual tithing.

Which is spent on?

General authorities receive housing and stipends. I wouldn’t call them “unpaid.”

My children receive housing and "stipends" (i.e. allowance) - I don't consider them to be paid employees.

Would you?

The “voluntary” donations are made under threat of lost blessings. Doesn’t seem very voluntary.

What blessings?

Also - it is completely voluntary.

You believe that the Church should just allow everyone everywhere to participate in Temple ordinances no matter what?

Of course there can be a benefit to giving. I myself give freely of my time, talents, and money and do so out of sense of community; Not because I want access to secret rituals and blessings that will be withheld from me if I don’t pay.

You believe that the only reason that members of the Church pay tithing is to go to the Temple?

They can't have any "sense of community" or "love for God and all men"?

No sense of gratitude for all the blessings God has given them?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I see where your cutoff line is. Very good. Shows you know exactly what I’m talking about but are afraid to admit it.

You don't understand what blessings are.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

That’s laughable. Or perhaps you’re not aware somehow of the well publicized backtracking the Church did after implementing homophobic policies that harmed children.

You mean when the Church refused to baptize the children of same-sex couples for a time?

That was not homophobic and it didn't harm any children.

 

[Watchmen]

Which is spent on?

My children receive housing and "stipends" (i.e. allowance) - I don't consider them to be paid employees.

Would you?

What blessings?

Also - it is completely voluntary.

You believe that the Church should just allow everyone everywhere to participate in Temple ordinances no matter what?

You believe that the only reason that members of the Church pay tithing is to go to the Temple?

They can't have any "sense of community" or "love for God and all men"?

No sense of gratitude for all the blessings God has given them?

$7 BILLION apparently not spent much. They’d rather build the empire and have now amassed $100 BILLION. I think you don’t comprehend how much that is.

Your children’s situation and that of general authorities are vastly differently and your comparison shows how out of touch you are.

The blessings of the temple and exaltation are withheld if a member is not a full tithe payer. It’s basically extortion.

 

[Watchmen]

You don't understand what blessings are.

You don't understand what blessings are.

Nice try.

 

[Watchmen]

You mean when the Church refused to baptize the children of same-sex couples for a time?

That was not homophobic and it didn't harm any children.

Yes. It was homophobic. Only the most ignorant True Believing Mormons would say otherwise. Also, you’re apparently not aware of the suicides of gay youth in the church. More ignorance but I’m not surprised given the Church’s tendency to hide things and engage in revisionist history.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

$7 BILLION apparently not spent much. They’d rather build the empire and have now amassed $100 BILLION. I think you don’t comprehend how much that is.

And in your mind there can be no good reason for the Church to amass so much wealth.

Your children’s situation and that of general authorities are vastly differently and your comparison shows how out of touch you are.

I was a full-time missionary for the Church.

I understand the concept of devoting all your time and energy to the Lord and living on a stipend.

The blessings of the temple and exaltation are withheld if a member is not a full tithe payer. It’s basically extortion.

You can become exalted without going to the Temple.

Since no one has the "right" to participate in Temple ordinances or receive exaltation nothing is "withheld" from anyone if they do not live up to their end of the promise.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Yes. It was homophobic. Only the most ignorant True Believing Mormons would say otherwise. Also, you’re apparently not aware of the suicides of gay youth in the church. More ignorance but I’m not surprised given the Church’s tendency to hide things and engage in revisionist history.

I can only speculate as to why the policy was implemented.

None of the reasons I can think of - however - were due to either fear or hatred of homosexuals.

I am aware that suicide affects all types of people. Not just young homosexual members of the Church.

If you believe that I am ignorant then please take this as an opportunity to enlighten me.

My supposed ignorance should not be mistaken as any attempt by the Church to hide or revise anything.

I can't know everything and suicide is honestly not a topic I care to focus on.

I have had two cousins commit suicide. Neither of them were members of the Church. Both were drug related.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have yet to see any hateful or discriminatory policies in the Church.

... because they're hateful and discriminatory in ways you agree with, so you don't recognize them for what they are.

 

[Watchmen]

And in your mind there can be no good reason for the Church to amass so much wealth.

I was a full-time missionary for the Church.

I understand the concept of devoting all your time and energy to the Lord and living on a stipend.

You can become exalted without going to the Temple.

Since no one has the "right" to participate in Temple ordinances or receive exaltation nothing is "withheld" from anyone if they do not live up to their end of the promise.

I think amassing wealth is great, but doing it in the backs of others, especially those who cannot really afford to part with 10%, when you have $100 BILLION in assets seems immoral to me.

I was a missionary too. Very different situation than general authorities.

You’re in denial about the temple and tithing. Whether someone can be exalted or not without going to the temple is a separate topic. The fact is the church pushes people hard to be full tithe payers and won’t let members experience the temple without being full tithe payers.

 

[Watchmen]

I can only speculate as to why the policy was implemented.

None of the reasons I can think of - however - were due to either fear or hatred of homosexuals.

I am aware that suicide affects all types of people. Not just young homosexual members of the Church.

If you believe that I am ignorant then please take this as an opportunity to enlighten me.

My supposed ignorance should not be mistaken as any attempt by the Church to hide or revise anything.

I can't know everything and suicide is honestly not a topic I care to focus on.

I have had two cousins commit suicide. Neither of them were members of the Church. Both were drug related.

So your reasoning is that because other people commit suicide for other reasons, the church has no culpability for those who commit suicide due to the church’s homophobic policies and practices?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

... because they're hateful and discriminatory in ways you agree with, so you don't recognize them for what they are.

Please elaborate.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I think amassing wealth is great, but doing it in the backs of others, especially those who cannot really afford to part with 10%, when you have $100 BILLION in assets seems immoral to me.

Can you point at the specific "seemingly" immoralities?

I was a missionary too. Very different situation than general authorities.

Yeah. Very different.

General authorities work harder, get more done and tend to serve for entire life-times

You’re in denial about the temple and tithing.

No. I just don't see anything wrong with it.

Whether someone can be exalted or not without going to the temple is a separate topic.

No - it's not. You said in your last post (#129),

"The blessings of the temple and exaltation are withheld if a member is not a full tithe payer. It’s basically extortion."

You were the one who made the claim that exaltation was "withheld" from those who don't pay a full tithe.

I corrected you - and now you want to claim that it is a "separate topic"?

That's called getting your argument blasted to bits and you being too much of a coward to face it.

The fact is the church pushes people hard to be full tithe payers and won’t let members experience the temple without being full tithe payers.

The Church "pushes" for all members to live worthy and receive a temple recommend - which includes more than paying a full and honest tithe.

The core mission of the Church is to help everyone prepare to meet Christ by placing them on the path to perfection which includes temple ordinances and service.

God has given everyone literally everything that they have and are and all He is asking is for us to share a tenth of what we have so that we can build up His kingdom upon the Earth and bring relief to others.

 

[Watchmen]

Can you point at the specific "seemingly" immoralities?

Yeah. Very different.

General authorities work harder, get more done and tend to serve for entire life-times

No. I just don't see anything wrong with it.

No - it's not. You said in your last post (#129),

"The blessings of the temple and exaltation are withheld if a member is not a full tithe payer. It’s basically extortion."

You were the one who made the claim that exaltation was "withheld" from those who don't pay a full tithe.

I corrected you - and now you want to claim that it is a "separate topic"?

That's called getting your argument blasted to bits and you being too much of a coward to face it.

The Church "pushes" for all members to live worthy and receive a temple recommend - which includes more than paying a full and honest tithe.

The core mission of the Church is to help everyone prepare to meet Christ by placing them on the path to perfection which includes temple ordinances and service.

God has given everyone literally everything that they have and are and all He is asking is for us to share a tenth of what we have so that we can build up His kingdom upon the Earth and bring relief to others.

All wrong.

I pointed out immoralities earlier in the thread.

The church pays its “clergy” at the top.

The blessings of the temple are withheld. It’s extortion.

Nice personal attacks. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Mormon such as you. Worst of the bunch.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

All wrong.

I pointed out immoralities earlier in the thread.

The church pays its “clergy” at the top.

The blessings of the temple are withheld. It’s extortion.

Nice personal attacks. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Mormon such as you. Worst of the bunch.

Translation - You have nothing to say in the face of the truth.

I dealt out only one "personal attack" - but it tied in with my argument that you had spread misinformation about the doctrines of the Church and your inability to admit when you were wrong.

You sharing that same misinformation again in this post proves that.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not teach that a person needs to go to the Temple in order to become exalted.

If that were true then what the Doctrine and Covenants teaches about the Prophet's older brother - Alvin Smith - would be wrong.

God wants to bless His children and in order to do that His children need to keep His commandments.

He wants all of us to pay a full and honest tithe so He can open the windows of Heaven and bless us.

You just have a grudge against the Church and it's sad.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

So your reasoning is that because other people commit suicide for other reasons, the church has no culpability for those who commit suicide due to the church’s homophobic policies and practices?

The Church does not teach anyone to hate or fear homosexuals.

The Church never enacted any homophobic policies or practices.

Even if the Church did teach fear and hate - it would not be responsible for the actions of others.

Unless - of course - the Church taught it's members to commit suicide.

Are you claiming that the Church teaches it's members to commit suicide?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Church does not teach anyone to hate or fear homosexuals.

The Church never enacted any homophobic policies or practices.

Wrong on both counts.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Wrong on both counts.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I have never been taught to hate or fear anyone - let alone homosexuals.

I have also yet to see any homophobic policies or practices.