Mormon Church has $100 BILLION

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I have never been taught to hate or fear anyone - let alone homosexuals.

You haven't been taught to do anything that YOU consider to be hate or fear.

You aren't familiar with the Family Proclamation? The LDS Church's campaign against same-sex marriage?

I have also yet to see any homophobic policies or practices.

Makes sense that you don't see it. Nobody's the villain in their own narrative.

Why do you think a religion that has no hate or fear of LGBTQ people would drive LGBTQ kids of LDS parents to suicide and homelessness at the rates it does?

LGBT Mormon suicides - Wikipedia

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You haven't been taught to do anything that YOU consider to be hate or fear.

Are you claiming that terms such as "fear" and "hate" - and therefore "homophobic" - are subjective?

You aren't familiar with the Family Proclamation? The LDS Church's campaign against same-sex marriage?

Yes - I am.

Nothing in The Family: A Proclamation to the World teaches anyone to fear or hate homosexuals.

Also - the Church wanting to prevent the redefinition of marriage is not "homophobic".

A person can believe that homosexuality is sinful and that marriage should only be between a man and a woman - without them fearing or hating anyone.

Just like how a person can be against illegal immigration without fearing or hating anyone.

Makes sense that you don't see it. Nobody's the villain in their own narrative.

I don't believe that anyone is a villain for simply disagreeing with me.

Why do you think a religion that has no hate or fear of LGBTQ people would drive LGBTQ kids of LDS parents to suicide and homelessness at the rates it does?

LGBT Mormon suicides - Wikipedia

I'd tell you that, "Correlation does not imply causation" - but I fear you wouldn't know what either of those words meant.

Basically - nothing that link shares proves or even hints at what you want it to.

 

[Watchmen]

Translation - You have nothing to say in the face of the truth.

I dealt out only one "personal attack" - but it tied in with my argument that you had spread misinformation about the doctrines of the Church and your inability to admit when you were wrong.

You sharing that same misinformation again in this post proves that.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not teach that a person needs to go to the Temple in order to become exalted.

If that were true then what the Doctrine and Covenants teaches about the Prophet's older brother - Alvin Smith - would be wrong.

God wants to bless His children and in order to do that His children need to keep His commandments.

He wants all of us to pay a full and honest tithe so He can open the windows of Heaven and bless us.

You just have a grudge against the Church and it's sad.

Fact: You must be a full tithe payer to go to the temple.

Fact: The temple is where one receives the blessings and promises of exaltation.

It’s extortion in the face of $100 BILLION.
No misinformation here. Nice try, blind believer.

 

[Watchmen]

The Church does not teach anyone to hate or fear homosexuals.

The Church never enacted any homophobic policies or practices.

Even if the Church did teach fear and hate - it would not be responsible for the actions of others.

Unless - of course - the Church taught it's members to commit suicide.

Are you claiming that the Church teaches it's members to commit suicide?

You’re so blind it’s sad really.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Fact: You must be a full tithe payer to go to the temple.

Incorrect.

A worthy member can enter the Temple and participate in vicarious ordinances for the dead - baptism and confirmation - without being a full tithe payer.

A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another.

There are a total of fifteen questions asked in the Temple Recommend interview. There's a lot more to receiving a Temple Recommend than paying a full and honest tithe.

It's almost as if the Church has specific standards for who can enter their most sacred sites and participate in ordinances.

A list of them can be found here:

Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions

If you took the time to read the questions you'll notice that one of the questions asked is,

"Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children?

If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?"

Do you take issue with the Church's stance that people should be paying alimony or child support?

Couldn't you argue that this is another example of the Church "extorting" it's members on behalf of their former spouse or children?

Or do you only take issue if the money is going to help the Church and the community at large?

Fact: The temple is where one receives the blessings and promises of exaltation.

It has already been pointed out to you that a person does not have to go to the Temple to receive exaltation.

The example of Alvin Smith receiving a celestial glory (exaltation) having died before the Restoration of Temple ordinances as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants was given to you.

You refuse to admit that you are wrong here.

It’s extortion in the face of $100 BILLION.

So - in other words - you wouldn't consider the need for a member to pay a full and honest tithe in order to participate in certain Tempe ordinances to be immoral if the Church were penniless?

Your subjective sense of morality is so fickle.

No misinformation here. Nice try, blind believer.

Misinformation and inconsistencies.

You can't see it passed that enormous chip on your shoulder.

It's sad.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You’re so blind it’s sad really.

Ad hominems don't get you anywhere.

How about trying to combat my claims instead?

Maybe answer my question?

Have an actual dicussion?

 

[Watchmen]

Incorrect.

A worthy member can enter the Temple and participate in vicarious ordinances for the dead - baptism and confirmation - without being a full tithe payer.

A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another.

There are a total of fifteen questions asked in the Temple Recommend interview. There's a lot more to receiving a Temple Recommend than paying a full and honest tithe.

It's almost as if the Church has specific standards for who can enter their most sacred sites and participate in ordinances.

A list of them can be found here:

Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions

If you took the time to read the questions you'll notice that one of the questions asked is,

"Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children?

If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?"

Do you take issue with the Church's stance that people should be paying alimony or child support?

Couldn't you argue that this is another example of the Church "extorting" it's members on behalf of their former spouse or children?

Or do you only take issue if the money is going to help the Church and the community at large?

It has already been pointed out to you that a person does not have to go to the Temple to receive exaltation.

The example of Alvin Smith receiving a celestial glory (exaltation) having died before the Restoration of Temple ordinances as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants was given to you.

You refuse to admit that you are wrong here.

So - in other words - you wouldn't consider the need for a member to pay a full and honest tithe in order to participate in certain Tempe ordinances to be immoral if the Church were penniless?

Your subjective sense of morality is so fickle.

Misinformation and inconsistencies.

You can't see it passed that enormous chip on your shoulder.

It's sad.

See question 10 (Are you a full tithe payer?).

I know these questions inside and out. I’ve answered them, and I’ve asked them.

I win, you lose. Bye bye.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

See question 10 (Are you a full tithe payer?).

I know these questions inside and out. I’ve answered them, and I’ve asked them.

I win, you lose. Bye bye.

I already said, "A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another."

I literally said that and there is nothing wrong with voluntarily deciding to pay tithes.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?

Or do you just repeat things that I have already said in an effort to distract from the fact that you cannot answer my questions?

 

[Watchmen]

Ad hominems don't get you anywhere.

How about trying to combat my claims instead?

Maybe answer my question?

Have an actual dicussion?

I already said, "A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another."

I literally said that and there is nothing wrong with voluntarily deciding to pay tithes.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?

Or do you just repeat things that I have already said in an effort to distract from the fact that you cannot answer my questions?

You’re missing the fact you proved my point and just rambling. I keep it short, sweet and to the point. No temple for you unless you pay tithing. That translates to a $100BILLION corporation withholding “blessings” and promises of exaltation without payment. Payment sure doesn’t feel voluntary in such a situation.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You’re missing the fact you proved my point and just rambling. I keep it short, sweet and to the point. No temple for you unless you pay tithing. That translates to a $100BILLION corporation withholding “blessings” and promises of exaltation without payment. Payment sure doesn’t feel voluntary in such a situation.

You didn't read my post.

You can get a Temple Recommend to perform baptisms and confirmations without paying tithing.

Now can you finally answer my earlier questions?

"Do you take issue with the Church's stance that people should be paying alimony or child support?

Couldn't you argue that this is another example of the Church "extorting" it's members on behalf of their former spouse or children?

Or do you only take issue if the money is going to help the Church and the community at large?"

"So - in other words - you wouldn't consider the need for a member to pay a full and honest tithe in order to participate in certain Tempe ordinances to be immoral if the Church were penniless?"

Or are you still doing exactly what I claimed that you are doing?

"Or do you just repeat things that I have already said in an effort to distract from the fact that you cannot answer my questions?"

 

[Watchmen]

You didn't read my post.

You can get a Temple Recommend to perform baptisms and confirmations without paying tithing.

Now can you finally answer my earlier questions?

"Do you take issue with the Church's stance that people should be paying alimony or child support?

Couldn't you argue that this is another example of the Church "extorting" it's members on behalf of their former spouse or children?

Or do you only take issue if the money is going to help the Church and the community at large?"

"So - in other words - you wouldn't consider the need for a member to pay a full and honest tithe in order to participate in certain Tempe ordinances to be immoral if the Church were penniless?"

Or are you still doing exactly what I claimed that you are doing?

"Or do you just repeat things that I have already said in an effort to distract from the fact that you cannot answer my questions?"

Nice try. You need to pay tithing for the endowment and sealing ordinances. Just because the kids can do baptisms for the dead doesn’t take away from my point one bit.

100Billion dollar organization should not exploit people. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Nice try. You need to pay tithing for the endowment and sealing ordinances. Just because the kids can do baptisms for the dead doesn’t take away from my point one bit.

100Billion dollar organizational should exploit people. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Why won't you answer my questions?

 

[Watchmen]

Nice try. You need to pay tithing for the endowment and sealing ordinances. Just because the kids can do baptisms for the dead doesn’t take away from my point one bit.

100Billion dollar organizational should exploit people. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Why won't you answer my questions?

Because your questions are irrelevant to the point I made. You’re just trying to distract and pivot. Classic Mormon technique.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Because your questions are irrelevant to the point I made. You’re just trying to distract and pivot. Classic Mormon technique.

I said - point black -

"A worthy member can enter the Temple and participate in vicarious ordinances for the dead - baptism and confirmation - without being a full tithe payer.

A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another.

There are a total of fifteen questions asked in the Temple Recommend interview. There's a lot more to receiving a Temple Recommend than paying a full and honest tithe.

It's almost as if the Church has specific standards for who can enter their most sacred sites and participate in ordinances.

A list of them can be found here:

Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions"

I even supplied all the Temple Recommend Interview questions.

How is that me "distracting" or "pivoting"?

I answered your questions and addressed your concerns. Why can't you do the same?

It's simple really. You are afraid.

You are afraid because you know that your criticisms are baseless.

 

[Watchmen]

I said - point black -

"A worthy member can enter the Temple and participate in vicarious ordinances for the dead - baptism and confirmation - without being a full tithe payer.

A member will need to be a full tithe payer if they desire to participate in other Temple ordinances for themselves or on behalf of another.

There are a total of fifteen questions asked in the Temple Recommend interview. There's a lot more to receiving a Temple Recommend than paying a full and honest tithe.

It's almost as if the Church has specific standards for who can enter their most sacred sites and participate in ordinances.

A list of them can be found here:

Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions"

I even supplied all the Temple Recommend Interview questions.

How is that me "distracting" or "pivoting"?

I answered your questions and addressed your concerns. Why can't you do the same?

It's simple really. You are afraid.

You are afraid because you know that your criticisms are baseless.

Sigh. Pivot pivot pivot. Baptisms for the dead are not the endowment. Now you’re being intellectually dishonest.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Sigh. Pivot pivot pivot. Baptisms for the dead are not the endowment. Now you’re being intellectually dishonest.

You said in Post #143,

"Fact: You must be a full tithe payer to go to the temple."

I have proven - beyond any doubt - that a member does not need to pay tithes to go to the Temple.

I also never said that baptisms were endowments.

I clearly explained that twice in past posts.

You are the one who is being dishonest and running away from my questions.

Talk about "pivoting".

 

[Watchmen]

You said in Post #143,

"Fact: You must be a full tithe payer to go to the temple."

I have proven - beyond any doubt - that a member does not need to pay tithes to go to the Temple.

I also never said that baptisms were endowments.

I clearly explained that twice in past posts.

You are the one who is being dishonest and running away from my questions.

Talk about "pivoting".

You need to be a full tithe payer to go to the temple to receive the greatest blessings and promises. FACT.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You need to be a full tithe payer to go to the temple to receive the greatest blessings and promises. FACT.

That is incorrect and I have already told you why in this thread.

Read Doctrine and Covenants 137 and explain to me why you are wrong.

Doctrine and Covenants 137

 

[Watchmen]

That is incorrect and I have already told you why in this thread.

Read Doctrine and Covenants 137 and explain to me why you are wrong.

Doctrine and Covenants 137

Read question 10 for a temple recommend.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Read question 10 for a temple recommend.

Not only have you been unable to substantiate your claim that it is immoral for the Church to ask for tithes or that the Church can set it's own standards for who can enter the Temple - but you run away from all questions and sources that destroy your arguments.

How can you live with the shame?