Mormon Church To US Supreme Court: Ban Gay Marriage

[Shadow Wolf]

Being a slave at that time was much different then in our times. There are plenty of articles that can explain that for you on the internet.

People keep saying that, but the Bible says it's ok to beat your slaves as severely as you want, provided you don't kill them and they recover after a day or two, and this is ok because the slave is your property. This "property" is exactly the same thing that we think of when we think of slaves today.

 

[Serenity7855]

Or we could do better and have something that makes no references to owning people as property, having no mentions of women being unclean or expected to remain silent, nothing about killing people for being rebellious children or ignoring what a priest says, or any of the other negative baggage contained in the Bible.

We could, however, that is not how God wanted it to be, and as he knows the beginning from the end, whereas you only have the experience of your relatively short life, your understanding of why He does what He does is infinitesimally minuscule and falls far short of His Brobdingnagian wisdom. There is only negative in the Bible if that is what you are intentionally looking for to use in a negative manner. Is that what you are doing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is only negative in the Bible if that is what you are intentionally looking for to use in a negative manner. Is that what you are doing.

There is simply nothing positive about saying slaves are property and you can beat them because they are your property, women are unclean while menstruating and need to keep quiet, genocide, and many other things in the Bible.

 

[First Baseman]

There is simply nothing positive about saying slaves are property and you can beat them because they are your property, women are unclean while menstruating and need to keep quiet, genocide, and many other things in the Bible.

Well, that's just your opinion. There are at least a billion people in the world that disagree with you, Shadow Wolf.

What do you think about the teachings of Jesus?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, that's just your opinion. There are at least a billion people in the world that disagree with you, Shadow Wolf.

It's not an opinion. Slavery is wrong. Misogyny is wrong. Genocide is wrong. Lots of people think terrorism is ok, appropriate, and justifiable, but that doesn't mean it is.

What do you think about the teachings of Jesus?

Other than Luke 19, he was alright.

 

[Serenity7855]

People keep saying that, but the Bible says it's ok to beat your slaves as severely as you want, provided you don't kill them and they recover after a day or two, and this is ok because the slave is your property. This "property" is exactly the same thing that we think of when we think of slaves today.

No, that is not what we think of, it is what you think of. If the slave dies immediately then his master will be punished because he has intentionally taken his life, however, if the slaves survives more than two days there was no intent to kill him. The logic is a simple one and should not need an explanation. In most cases the slave was happy with his lot when considering the alternative. They were usually an integral part of the family.

And if a man smite his servant.—The homicide hitherto considered has been that of freemen; but the Mosaic Law was not content to stop at this point. Unlike most other codes, it proceeded to forbid the homicide of slaves. Hitherto, throughout the East, and also in many parts of the West, slaves had been regarded as so absolutely their master’s property that he was entitled to do as he pleased with them. Now, for the first time—so far as we know—was the life of the slave protected. The exact extent of the protection is uncertain. According to the Talmud, the master who killed his slave was put to death; according to some modern Jews, as Kalisch, he had merely to pay a fine. In any case, the killing was an offence of which the law took cognisance. Later on it appears that even assaults on slaves, if they reached a certain intensity, were unlawful, and involved the slave’s compulsory emancipation (Exodus 21:26-27).

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/21-20.htm

 

[gsa]

Well, that's just your opinion. There are at least a billion people in the world that disagree with you, Shadow Wolf. ?

Even if you made it 2 billion, that's still a supermajority of the world's population that disagrees with slavery, genocide and misogyny. These discrete numbers are relative, given the 5-6 billion people who disagree, many very strongly, with that belief system.

 

[McBell]

Well, that's just your opinion. There are at least a billion people in the world that disagree with you, Shadow Wolf.

What do you think about the teachings of Jesus?

back to appeal to numbers?

 

[McBell]

No, that is not what we think of, it is what you think of. If the slave dies immediately then his master will be punished because he has intentionally taken his life, however, if the slaves survives more than two days there was no intent to kill him. The logic is a simple one and should not need an explanation. In most cases the slave was happy with his lot when considering the alternative. They were usually an integral part of the family.

And if a man smite his servant.—The homicide hitherto considered has been that of freemen; but the Mosaic Law was not content to stop at this point. Unlike most other codes, it proceeded to forbid the homicide of slaves. Hitherto, throughout the East, and also in many parts of the West, slaves had been regarded as so absolutely their master’s property that he was entitled to do as he pleased with them. Now, for the first time—so far as we know—was the life of the slave protected. The exact extent of the protection is uncertain. According to the Talmud, the master who killed his slave was put to death; according to some modern Jews, as Kalisch, he had merely to pay a fine. In any case, the killing was an offence of which the law took cognisance. Later on it appears that even assaults on slaves, if they reached a certain intensity, were unlawful, and involved the slave’s compulsory emancipation (Exodus 21:26-27).

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/21-20.htm

Interesting how the above logic is easy for you but that you just proved that the slave is property is beyond you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, that is not what we think of, it is what you think of.

Slavery, be it today, the 19th century, of "Biblical times," is to own another human being as a piece of property. It doesn't matter what stipulations you put on it, what sort of rules you may have, or whatever euphemisms you may want to attach to it, owning another human being as property is wrong, it is unethical, it is immoral, yet it is OK to own a slave according to the Bible.

 

[Ingledsva]

You still haven't justified your claims about the passage. You want to try again or just give it a rest and admit that you can't do it?

LOL! I proved it with the verse itself.

Nothing happens to the servants, - not even the one whom kept the money.

The only people slaughtered are the one whom did not want to be under his reign.

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[Ingledsva]

No it doesn't. The command was given in parable form to the angels. Angels are incapable of murder.

And judgement means that some will be found guilty and to be found guilty is to pay the price. So if you can't do the time (or get executed) don't do the crime.

The passage is a stern warning to those who will not do the will of the Almighty Holy God but instead continue in their own agenda in sin. God will not tolerate this.

No one is commanded to commit murder.

BULL! This parable says to murder those whom don't want to be under his reign.

Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Where did you get that angel crap? It says Jesus said it to Zacchaeus and the crowd in Jericho.

Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.


Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

Luk 19:10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

 

[Ingledsva]

You seem to think that the Bible is a history book and it's contents are an accurate account of those times, let me tell you that it most certainly is not. Don't beat yourself up about it though as most atheists are under the same impression, or they use it as such to try and discredit the existence of Deity. The New Testament is not even chronologically correct.

The main impetus and objective for the existence of the Bible is to help us to draw nearer to God by adhering to the concepts and principles in this magnificent book of commandments. By using the Bible to help manoeuvre us through life's trials and tribulations will help us to gain eternal life in the presence of God.

It is very possible that many of the stories and allegories contained in the Bible are just that, fictitious stories with a moral undertone. For example, we pretty much know that it is unlikely that a world flood ever occurred, however, by reading that story we can learn what the reward for excessive and persistent evil might be. That is the reason why the Bible contains that principle. This can all be corroborated by looking up the definition of a "parable" it is "a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels." A moral fable selected by God to teach us correct principles so that we may be the benefactors and reap eternal life with Him.

The bible is full of these moral tales that can only produce virtuous and edifying fruit when teaching them in our schools, and all places of learning, to instill wholesome moral principles in our society instead of hostile children with a chip on their shoulders who have no real direction in life. No reason for their existence. Heck, I would sooner that it was all a lie and when I die there would be nothing, rather then to have no purpose or meaning for my life, how very desperately depressing. No wonder our world is on a social kamikaze mission to final and certain coup de grâce.

1. You've been here long enough to know I don't think the Bible is a history book. Parts may be history from the view of the Hebrew, and the rest is myth. I am merely debating what the Bible says.

2. I was replying to a specific post which said I had drawn a wrong conclusion. I proved my point, - and him wrong.

3. It doesn't matter if it is allegory, parable, etc., as it is teaching that those whom don't want to be under Jesus' reign - are enemies that should be slain!!!

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[Ingledsva]

How eloquently phrased.

During the beatitudes Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Laws and introduced the Abrahamic Covenant, effectively rendering most of the Old Testament obsolete. So why do you harp on about something that has been fulfilled more than 2000 years ago.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Being a slave at that time was much different then in our times. There are plenty of articles that can explain that for you on the internet.

This is baloney. We have had several debates on this one. The Hebrew could only be indentured servants for a limited time. ALL others could be bought, beaten, bred, raped, and held forever.

You give an impression that you just want to diss God rather than constructively critique opinions and beliefs.

Baloney! I always use the verse, related exegesis, links, etc. I also hardly ever - start these discussions. I come in and debate what is being said by others.

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[Father Heathen]

The Bible sets the standard for marriage

Only for those who believe in the bible. For everyone else, it's completely irrelevant.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't think God really cares what unbelievers do...do you?

I don't think god really cares what a bunch of dirty goat herders who presumed to speak on his behalf believed, either.

 

[Ingledsva]

We could, however, that is not how God wanted it to be, and as he knows the beginning from the end, whereas you only have the experience of your relatively short life, your understanding of why He does what He does is infinitesimally minuscule and falls far short of His Brobdingnagian wisdom. There is only negative in the Bible if that is what you are intentionally looking for to use in a negative manner. Is that what you are doing.

That is your opinion.

You think YHVH is a real God, - and wanted it that way.

My study of the Bible tells me the YHVH character is too twisted, and human like in his actions, to be anything more then the made-up God of a people that wanted to do horrendous things, - while claiming God said it was OK!

Innocent babies being murdered for the actions of adults - on its own - is enough to tell me this is not God.

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[Serenity7855]

Slavery, be it today, the 19th century, of "Biblical times," is to own another human being as a piece of property. It doesn't matter what stipulations you put on it, what sort of rules you may have, or whatever euphemisms you may want to attach to it, owning another human being as property is wrong, it is unethical, it is immoral, yet it is OK to own a slave according to the Bible.

If you had a choice between becoming a slave and you family being treated like a human beings or to be beaten to death because there is no one to protect you, then which would you choose? Your being a little naive by not considering the circumstance of that day. But you are missing something very important here. God had no slaves, not a one, so, what is the point you are making, that mankind can be evil and nasty to their fellow men, well, we know that, look at the bombings in Paris and Brussels to get a glimpse of how our society is declining into rampant anarchy. So God used the situation to teach his children, that does not mean that He should be held accountable for what mankind has done, is doing. We are here to be tried and trusted in the flesh. This is an example of man failing the test. But fear not, Jesus atoned for our sins. All we have to do is ask him for forgiveness.

 

[Ingledsva]

If you had a choice between becoming a slave and you family being treated like a human beings or to be beaten to death because there is no one to protect you, then which would you choose? Your being a little naive by not considering the circumstance of that day. But you are missing something very important here. God had no slaves, not a one, so, what is the point you are making, that mankind can be evil and nasty to their fellow men, well, we know that, look at the bombings in Paris and Brussels to get a glimpse of how our society is declining into rampant anarchy. So God used the situation to teach his children, that does not mean that He should be held accountable for what mankind has done, is doing. We are here to be tried and trusted in the flesh. This is an example of man failing the test. But fear not, Jesus atoned for our sins. All we have to do is ask him for forgiveness.

One could say the exact same thing today! Yet we don't condone slavery!

However, ISIS does!

People doing this in the past are no different then ISIS.

ISIS uses the Qur'an - however - the same laws are in the Bible. According to the Bible you can own real slaves, rape captives, bring captives into slavery, etc.

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[SkepticThinker]

Makes me think of my dad's family. With both the men and women, when it comes to child rearing or solving problems with other adults, the phrase "I'm gonna whup your ***" is typically spoken and resorted to as a means of "conflict resolution."

Oh boy.