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Mormon Church To US Supreme Court: Ban Gay Marriage

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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
No one is disputing that. I am merely stating a hurdle in their ability to raise children

Because there is no biological link between them. My children are the product of both me and my wife. We created them together and that creates a bond like no other bond. I love my nieces and nephews but not in the same way as I do my child. In fact, I do not love anyone in the same way as I love my children. It is a special bond between two people who are biologically linked. I do not believe that the same things exist between children who are adopted and their parents. I believe it is a spiritual link.

Your cousin is also another of your straw men. Your argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated my proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition, your cousin. Just because she preferred her adopted mum to her biological mum does not set a precedence, or disprove my argument of spiritual bonding between a child and her/his parents. Attempting to generalize an entire population of people from a sample of one doesn’t make sense. There is always going to be an exception to the rules.

Are you suggesting that I do not feel the same about my extended family when you say "You may not", because that is not what I said. What I said was. " I love my nieces and nephews but not in the same way as I do my child."

Yes, but I have never had a friend that I love as much as my family.

Do you really think that?

It will still mean that one of them will not be the biological parent.

Yes, because that is what they love to tell us.

Don't they, are you sure, or is this anecdotal?

How do you know that. Where is your evidence, or should I just accept it on your say so.

I have not conducted any surveys or studies so the figure you just pointed my way is a falsehood.

Why wouldn't they make it through the adoption vetting process. Why would they tell anybody what they do for entertainment?

It is one significant reason, along with perpetuating my name and bringing into mortality those who eagerly wait to get a body of flesh and blood. But one of the main reasons was to follow in the footsteps of those who have gone before me. To make my parents grandparent, to follow societies norm by doing what everyone else was doing, and to care for someone who would be dependant on me. So the reasons are multifaceted.


Yes, I am aware of that and have told you that many times

Nothing in our entire universe just is, there is always a reason and it is my opinion that social conditioning plays a key role in making people who they are.

No, because that would invoke a choice and there is no choice with social conditioning. it is a gradual process that will appear to them to be just what they are and have always been, and probably what they initially think that everyone else is.. The sexual perversion is a separate issue that muddies the water, Nobody is compelled to have sex. It is not the essence of life or an absolute necessity. Nobody has ever died as a result of a poor sex life. and it is not a fundamental right. In the way that heterosexuals do, guided by external influences and internal biology, causing a feminine disposition that will ultimately be realised as being gay. Nobody needs to lay with a man as he does a woman. It is all down to self control and Choosing The Right.

My children were not even aware of the existence of gays until they were 12-13 years old. They had not developed a sexual preference until then. They were still innocent to that stuff. Children are not attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex. It is not a part of their world until adolescence kicks in.

No, I do not believe that any of my children could have been gay. The environment that they were raised in would not have allowed for that. I don't know if you have travelers, or gypsies, in the US, but over here their are a lot. There are very few homosexuals in their communities because their environment is driven by masculinity leaving little option for them to drift in that direction. My wife is a traveler and of the thousands of travelers she either know or is related to, not one of them is gay. Proof positive that social conditioning play a big role in homosexuality.
Wow, so literally right underneath the spot where you denounce my anecdotal example that counters your assertion that adopted parents can't bond with their children, you provide your very own anecdotal example about how there are no gay people in gypsy communities? (All I needed to disprove your claim was one example, by the way). And you really believe that there are no gay gypsies? I bet the president of Iran was totally accurate when he said there were no gay people in Iran too, right? Good grief!

There's no evidence that there is this environment that causes otherwise heterosexual kids to turn gay (or stops the creation of gay people). There is no evidence that gay parents produce gay children just because that child was raised by gay people. This is primitive and outdated thinking. The people in these gypsy communities who are gay are probably just terrified to come out of the closet to a group of people who wouldn't accept them.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
But that is not the case here because he didn't write the actual paper so he does not need to fulfil your insistence for relevant field of study, after all, the article was his opinion. It is just another case of discrediting the person in the hope that you can discredit his argument. That is dishonest, and to make it even worse, you tried to discredit the wrong person, Peter Sprigg, you ignored his 25 years experience in this field. Experience that any one who writes paper would know is far better then any degree. Instead of Professor Mark Daniel Regnerus, a sociologist at the Texas University in Austin, who is more than qualified to write a peer reviewed paper on the adverse effect on children raised in a same sex home.



And there goes that goal post, not a mention about this being a necessary requirement until you found yourself in a corner. Equally, it does not show that he hasn't either, however, if you would have looked you would have found that Mark has also written several short essays about data collection on same-sex couples.
That has always been a necessary requirement.

What difference does it make that The Family Research Group are a conservative Christian lobbying group. They merely wrote an article about it that is no more than an opinion. The person who wrote the paper is Professor Mark Daniel Regnerus, a sociologist at the Texas University in Austin, who has more then enough qualifications to to competently write this paper, that Peter Sprigg thought was exceptionally accurate.
Well, it makes a difference when you discredit every single other study written on the subject as biased because they may have been written by gay people then turn around and reference a conservative, Christian, anti-gay lobbying group.

I already criticized the methodology of Regnerus' paper. I'm certainly not the only one. Others far more qualified than I have also done so. You should get out and read some of them.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Not at all.

I made the claim that the LDS Church considers his interpretation to be false. That is the belief of the LDS Church and my personal belief as well.

Which is one more than he had done to your view.

He, however, made a claim that everyone else agreed with his interpretation, which is a ludicrous and absurd assertion to make.

No he didn't. You accused him of doing it but he never did. You continue to use this strawman, nothing more

I am a member of the LDS Church. I have the authority to share what the LDS Church considers true or false.

Never said you didn't.

He has no authority to declare what the remainder of the population on the planet considers true or false.

He didn't declare anything. He argued against your interpretation. You become emotional over it and started to create strawman arguments in order to compensate.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Who told you that. What proof have you seen that verifies that. Sometime you need to be apprehensive as to what you are being fed, especially by the media or our governments. It is a bit like the climate change scare mongering.

Burial is far more environmentally friendly the cremation. with burial we return to the ground from whence we came, the cremation we pollute the atmosphere and warm it up a little.
I cannot make you see what you are too blind to see. And if the process of cremation is polluting the earth, what does the body decaying do for the earth? Sometimes it boggles the mind that people cannot see the one step further that a concept takes.
 
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JoStories

Well-Known Member
That is all very interesting, can you post the link so I can have a read of it, only I am told that it is the blood that is toxic, which is why it is now removed and replaced with embalming fluid. I am also told that since they now use diggers to dig the graves with, and fill it back in, compacting it down with the diggers bucket, that many of the cheaper coffins collapse. You can tell by how much excess dirt is left after filling it in if it has collapsed or not. Lastly, it is only but a relatively short period of time for mourners to put up memorial stones and visit the grave. But I live in The UK where space is at a premium but their is no apparent shortage of space. I did two road trips in the US, from east coast to west coast, and drove for long periods without even seeing a house, so it seem like there is plenty of space there as well.
Here is one on the toxic effects and poisons of formaldehyde, IE embalming fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde.
And as for the 'plenty of space' in the US, there is less than you think. I, too, have driven across the US many times. Via Rt 90, 80, 70, 40, 20 and in Louisiana, 10. Back and forth on all of those. When you can say you have done as I have, then maybe we can talk about all the space in the US. Until then, you do not know what you are talking about at all.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
No, decomposing blood is nowhere nearly as toxic as embalming fluid. If you have any evidence to the contrary I would love to see it.

But I agree with you about cremation, it is not the the environmentally green way to go about dealing with human remains either. The process of cremation releases carbon dioxide along with numerous toxins into the environment. If environment concerns play a part in your decisions about death rituals (and I think they should) then consider a green funeral without embalming and being buried in a biodegradable coffin. Embalming is not necessary, it started as a vanity thing for political dignitaries and caught on. Those who tell you it is necessary are lying to make money.
I disagree with you. I find that cremation, when compared to burial, in most cases which are NOT 'green', the two are not comparable in terms of taking our planet into consideration. the idea of a 'green' burial is nice but I also see that that takes a significant amount of time and considering all the people, like the Duggars, and many others, that would take far TOO long, IMO.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Why should they have to? Because it beats not having any parents. Because it beats not having a stabile and safe home to live in.
So, you are saying that same sex couples are second best? It very much sounds like it. They are not second best, they shouldn't even be a consideration all the time stuff like this is being written about them.

In September of 2006, the Agape Press reported the following:​

“ A survey by The Advocate, a homosexual magazine, revealed that promiscuity is a reality among homosexuals. The poll found that 20 percent of homosexuals said they had had 51-300 different sex partners in their lifetime, with an additional 8 percent having had more than 300.
Not the ones who neglect or beat their children.
Sadly, that is not true. Those children still love their parent despite the beatings
And at some point in most peoples’ lives, I think there’s a point when we realize our parents are just people, with the same flaws that everybody else has, just trying to do their best.
OK
Nobody is perfect. So there are no perfect parents.
That depends on how you are defining perfect. My mother was definitely perfect.
You’re asserting that gay parents are a burden on a child.
Yes I am. All the time there are children ready to tease and taunt children raised in a same sex home they will be a burden

First time parents don’t have any experience. But if you’re talking about experience in taking care of kids or babysitting or something, anybody can have that experience, regardless of sexual orientation or gender.

Ever heard of a Maternal Instinct Here are 5 definitions that show what it is. Note that it relates to the biological mother of the child.

1. 19 Jan 2009 - By "maternal instinct," people mean a special bond between a mother and her child that is established at conception and that continues through pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

2. the natural tendency that a mother has to behave or react in a particular way around her child or children

3. A maternal bond (or motherly bond) is generally the relationship between a mother and her child. A maternal bond is typically associated with pregnancy and childbirth,

4. 19 Jan 2009 - It's a common belief that a mother should know what her baby needs; this is what is known as maternal instinct,

5. 18 Jan 2015 - If you take that definition as meaning that thematernal instinct is the desire to protect and care for your baby, then I had that kind of instinct.​
Heterosexual people don’t have a leg up on parenting skills just by virtue of being heterosexual.
Agan, Ever heard of a Maternal Instinct
They do that here in Canada do. My cousin had a nurse come to her house after she gave birth to her child as well. But that’s not the same thing as attending parenting classes or reading a pile of parenting books or something. They’re just making sure you can provide for the baby’s basic needs.


They get the parenting classes and there are plenty parenting books here.
But you didn’t pay attention to what I said. I said it doesn’t take any skill to carry out the act of procreation (i.e. it doesn’t take any special skills to have sex and make a baby). Anybody can do it.
Oh, I saw it there, I just did not see anything that I could respond to.
How can we be sure they pass the same tests as anybody else? What reason do you have to believe they are not held to the same standards as anyone else? Fear of repercussions? Come on.
My reason is because of the tactics that gay activists have used to get there own way, that has been supported by the gay community at large. That makes you wonder that if they are capable of that then what stops a gay person from bending the rules for another gay person.
Yes, and it’s an opinion that is backed by the evidence.
What evidence is there that "There’s no reason for same sex couples not to raise children."
Like poppers and fisting? Come on.
Come on what? Are you denying that gays do not take poppers that assist in fisting?
I’ve addressed this recent study in another post. Why you think it trumps the other 59 studies indicating the opposite, I don’t know. Aside from confirmation bias, I can’t come up with anything.
Because those 59 have probably either been written by some who is gay or influenced by someone, like yourself, who is pro-gay. They are not without bias or bigotry, which makes them unreliable.
It sounds pretty selfish to me.
Well, that is neither here or there. it is expected.
Though to be fair, I haven’t heard many people say that the reason they want to have children is to “perpetuate their seed.”
You need to spend more time with heterosexuals
I just told you that my cousin always wanted to nurture and care for children and you told me that was a selfish reason to have children.
Yes, and I stick by that based on your words, like "my cousin wants". Those are selfish words because a personal want does not take into consideration those who might be negatively affected by your want...
They should be given the same rights as straight people in raising children.
Why?
That doesn’t mean the only reason they want to have children of their own is because they want to be like straight people.
So why did they push through their right to be married when they already had civil partnership. For the same reason as you just said "They should be given the same rights as straight people in raising children. " Not because they want to be a mum with all that entails, no, it is because they should be given the same rights as straight people in raising children.
They’re just saying that discrimination is unfair and unwarranted.
No, they are throwing the rattle out of their pram. If you have it then we want it to.
It’s not true that you’re biased against gay people? Well, you could have fooled me.
Yes, I am sure that I could, but that is not the point here. The point is that you are calling me a liar again knowing that I am a Christian so I never intentionally lie.
To say that an entire group of people is “spoilt, neurotic and selfless” (I think you meant “selfish?”), is folly. Generalizing is folly.
I didn't say that "an entire group of people is “spoilt, neurotic and selfless” you have just falsely and dishonestly attributed those words to me.
Maybe you’re the one who needs to get out more.
That would be nice because I am disabled and can't.
Gay people are just people. They don’t all act the same any more than all straight people act the same way. Or white people. Or black people.
They are a minority group who use that to get what the want and use the fear of being called a homophobe to get it.
Bucket list? So having a child is nothing more than a tick mark on a bucket list if a gay person wants to have a child? What makes you think a gay parent wouldn’t put their child’s welfare first and foremost, as any good parent would do?
Their track record
Homosexuality is a part of our society’s norm. Like it or not.
They are a part of our society but look at our history to see if they are a part of our norm
The only place I can seem to find the quotes you’ve provided are on conservative anti-gay sites. Do you have a better reference for me? Is this a study of married gay people?
The only place I can seem to find the quotes you’ve provided are on pro-gay sites.
You didn’t give me any numbers having to do with gay marriage at all. You’d think if you were going to assert things about the data, you’d want to check out that data first. They don’t show that gay couples have higher rates of failed marriages than straight couples. And yet you continue to assert that here. There is no straw man here, I was responding directly to your point.
You said that "Study after study shows no risk to the well being of children raised by same sex couples. You are harbouring a fear that needn’t exist" yet you provide no evidence to back it up.
This was written By Marian Jones, published on May 1, 1997, nearly 20 years ago and in Denmark. You are really scrapping the barrel, aren't you?
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Here is one on the toxic effects and poisons of formaldehyde, IE embalming fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde.
And as for the 'plenty of space' in the US, there is less than you think. I, too, have driven across the US many times. Via Rt 90, 80, 70, 40, 20 and in Louisiana, 10. Back and forth on all of those. When you can say you have done as I have, then maybe we can talk about all the space in the US. Until then, you do not know what you are talking about at all.

How many times do you need to see the same wide open spaces in Arizona, Nebraska, Nevada and Wyoming to know that there is plenty of room.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I’m pointing out that we have far more to worry about with heterosexual parents as it is.
You said "I could point out to you the vast amount of horrors that heterosexual couples have inflicted upon their children. There would be many more than four stories, that's for sure. Is that enough to convince you that heterosexual couples shouldn't be parents?" You are replacing my argument that homosexuals make for a bad environment in which to raise children with heterosexuals, the straw man, are worse. If you want to debate the wrongs and rights of heterosexual parenting then may I suggest you start a new thread on it instead of drawing this one down another tangent.

You also said "Is that enough to convince you that heterosexual couples shouldn't be parents?" as though I have said that they are squeaky clean and need convincing otherwise. I haven't therefore your attempt to convince me of something that I agree with is unnecessary.
You keep going on about how heterosexuals make the best parents, that they are the only people fit enough to be parents, and how gay people are icky and do a bunch of stuff you don’t like and therefore are unfit to be parents just be virtue of being gay.

I think you will find that I am saying that there is no viable alternative and what we have is generally working. There is no need to take a chance on emotionally damaging children just because homosexuals want to try to raise children and will stamp their feet if they can't.
They aren’t.
And the aftermath is yet to be realised.
That’s debatable. I would say that a person isn’t necessarily a good parent just because they’re heterosexual. I don’t know how anyone could say that.
Have you heard of maternal instinct between a mother and her biological baby?
But where do you think gay people were for all these centuries? Hiding under rocks?
Something like that, because coming out would have had dire consequences.
Slavery used to be the standard too. Now it’s not
.You are replacing my argument with a straw man, slavery. If you want to debate slavery may I suggest starting a new thread on it.
That isn’t what is happening at all.
Yes it is. We were doing reasonably fine on raising children when the 60s brought promiscuity to our world, along with immoralities that are now the accepted norm, filling the prophecy that men will make Bad to be good, wrong to be right and immoralities to be moral.
Many countries have had gay marriage for over a decade now. Most western countries have had gay parents for many decades now (and probably far longer). Society has not collapsed, or become more corrupt because of it. And if you think so, I’d love to see how you could demonstrate that.
It is the straw that could break the camels back, You think that society is not collapsing and becoming more corrupt because of the immoralities of men. Homosexuality is just one of many Pornography, prostitution, swinging, cottaging and bath houses, drugs, rape, Human trafficking, beastiality, pedophilia, alcohol, organised crime, a police state and secret combinations, to name just a few.
We can’t govern our society based on one guy’s religious beliefs. We have to go with demonstrable, observable, provable things.
It is not one guy, it is God. God is perfect and is pure love that can never hurt His children. Science, though very much needed within the realms of its uses, is mans attempts at being God, but man is arrogant and haughty with it, thinking that he knows more then God so God can be rendered as useless and no longer needed.

The conflict between science and Scripture comes when science steps outside the realm of that which is observable and reproducible and speculates on origins, values, and destinies. Science then becomes a religious viewpoint.
I provided the studies I am referring to which if you actually read them, will back up what I’ve said.
You have provided pro-gay sites.
There are children who still need homes in the UK. Foster children need homes too.
I was referring to adopted children but I have already said that so why do you repeat yourselve.
There are many homosexual couples waiting to give them the same chance of happiness.
I am sure that there are and because homosexual are everywhere in positions of power in our world they will get their own way.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I already criticized the methodology of Regnerus' paper. I'm certainly not the only one. Others far more qualified than I have also done so. You should get out and read some of them.

Of course they criticized his paper, like you, they, and you, are pro-gay. The paper is sound and therefore a thorn in the side of gay activists, as i am, so you would expect nothing else, they did the same to Peter Duesberg.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Wow, so literally right underneath the spot where you denounce my anecdotal example that counters your assertion that adopted parents can't bond with their children, you provide your very own anecdotal example about how there are no gay people in gypsy communities? (All I needed to disprove your claim was one example, by the way). And you really believe that there are no gay gypsies? I bet the president of Iran was totally accurate when he said there were no gay people in Iran too, right? Good grief!

I didn't say that I believe that there are no gay gypsies. I know that they have their own group on facebook so why would I say that. What I said was "There are very few homosexuals in their communities" Post 2430. You really need to stop making up stuff and then attribute it to me. By doing that you are portraying me as someone that I am not, which is dishonest.

The people in these gypsy communities who are gay are probably just terrified to come out of the closet to a group of people who wouldn't accept them.

Yes, that is true.

If gays are born that way then surely we would see those genes passed on with many children of gay couples turning out gay, yet you say that is not true.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You said "I could point out to you the vast amount of horrors that heterosexual couples have inflicted upon their children. There would be many more than four stories, that's for sure. Is that enough to convince you that heterosexual couples shouldn't be parents?" You are replacing my argument that homosexuals make for a bad environment in which to raise children with heterosexuals, the straw man, are worse. If you want to debate the wrongs and rights of heterosexual parenting then may I suggest you start a new thread on it instead of drawing this one down another tangent.

You also said "Is that enough to convince you that heterosexual couples shouldn't be parents?" as though I have said that they are squeaky clean and need convincing otherwise. I haven't therefore your attempt to convince me of something that I agree with is unnecessary.


I think you will find that I am saying that there is no viable alternative and what we have is generally working. There is no need to take a chance on emotionally damaging children just because homosexuals want to try to raise children and will stamp their feet if they can't.

And the aftermath is yet to be realised.

Have you heard of maternal instinct between a mother and her biological baby?
Something like that, because coming out would have had dire consequences.
.You are replacing my argument with a straw man, slavery. If you want to debate slavery may I suggest starting a new thread on it.

Yes it is. We were doing reasonably fine on raising children when the 60s brought promiscuity to our world, along with immoralities that are now the accepted norm, filling the prophecy that men will make Bad to be good, wrong to be right and immoralities to be moral.
It is the straw that could break the camels back, You think that society is not collapsing and becoming more corrupt because of the immoralities of men. Homosexuality is just one of many Pornography, prostitution, swinging, cottaging and bath houses, drugs, rape, Human trafficking, beastiality, pedophilia, alcohol, organised crime, a police state and secret combinations, to name just a few.It is not one guy, it is God. God is perfect and is pure love that can never hurt His children. Science, though very much needed within the realms of its uses, is mans attempts at being God, but man is arrogant and haughty with it, thinking that he knows more then God so God can be rendered as useless and no longer needed.

The conflict between science and Scripture comes when science steps outside the realm of that which is observable and reproducible and speculates on origins, values, and destinies. Science then becomes a religious viewpoint.
You have provided pro-gay sites.
I was referring to adopted children but I have already said that so why do you repeat yourselve.
I am sure that there are and because homosexual are everywhere in positions of power in our world they will get their own way.
Out of curiosity, what conclusion are you arguing for with all this?

I recognize that you think same-sex couples make bad parents. Even if this was true, I'm not sure how it ties into the overall topic of the discussion. The children of same-sex parents don't magically disappear when same-sex marriage is banned, so it seems like you're arguing something like "same-sex parents are bad for kids, so their kids shouldn't get the rights and benefits of having legally married parents.

While I disagree with your premise that same-sex patents are worse than opposite-sex parents, I also recognize that even if I agreed with it, your position would make no sense. Bad parents need MORE support, not less.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Out of curiosity, what conclusion are you arguing for with all this?
That it is against the natural order of this planet and Gods Plan of Salvation for homosexuals to raise children. I am a Christian so I believe in the word of God. His word on this is that only a man and a woman who are married should have children.
I recognize that you think same-sex couples make bad parents. Even if this was true,
So you are not being open-minded to it then, you are certain that it is not true? In a world that has become morally and socially corrupt then raising children in a same sex home would be considers as perfectly acceptable to those who have followed the morals of the world, however, God is the same today, tomorrow and forever, which means that gay marriage will never be acceptable to Him and He does not agree with same sex parenting, and if God says it, then so do I. Gods laws and commandments are alien to carnal man and would give the appearance of being unconventional to those who are of the world. So, in a world that Satan rules anything that goes against God is celebrated and anything or anybody that stand for God is unacceptable and evil. It is a good thing to witness as it is prophecy fulfilled, therefore, it strengthens ones resolve and testimony.
I'm not sure how it ties into the overall topic of the discussion. The children of same-sex parents don't magically disappear when same-sex marriage is banned, so it seems like you're arguing something like "same-sex parents are bad for kids, so their kids shouldn't get the rights and benefits of having legally married parents.
It is the moralistic value that is paramount. It is the acceptance of evil that makes one concerned about the values that our children are being taught that may corrupt them into believing that right is wrong. Nothing can stop people from sinning but at least let us be honest about it and stop pedaling wrong as right.

If we were to recognised that same-sex parents are bad for kids then they wouldn't have any kids whose rights to having legally married parents are not forth coming. However, we live in a world where fewer and fewer couples get married but just live together and live happily ever after. What is it to a child whether his parents are legally married. So why change something that works without offending anyone for the sake of a piece of paper.
While I disagree with your premise that same-sex patents are worse than opposite-sex parents, I also recognize that even if I agreed with it, your position would make no sense. Bad parents need MORE support, not less.
Yes, and that is something I have seen first hand, however, you do not allow a car to crash, instead of preventing it in the first place, because you can treat the passengers after the crash, which is what you are saying and it is that which does not make sense. Rather then allowing the child to be harmed, because you can then give him more support, why not give that child to a heterosexual couple preventing the damage before it happens.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes, and that is something I have seen first hand, however, you do not allow a car to crash, instead of preventing it in the first place, because you can treat the passengers after the crash, which is what you are saying and it is that which does not make sense. Rather then allowing the child to be harmed because you can then give him more support why not give that child to a same sex couple preventing the damage before it happens.
I'm guessing from context that you meant "opposite sex" and not "same sex". With that assumed:

- you're actually arguing that same-sex couples should have their children removed... is that correct?
- you claim to be worried about the well-being of children. Have you come across any research that talks about the effects on children of removing them from their families?
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I'm guessing from context that you meant "opposite sex" and not "same sex". With that assumed:
Yes, I did.
- you're actually arguing that same-sex couples should have their children removed... is that correct?
Absolutely not, that would be a terrible thing to do, especially for the child. It should have never been allowed in the first place, however, if I could do anything about it then I would stop it immediately.
- you claim to be worried about the well-being of children. Have you come across any research that talks about the effects on children of removing them from their families?
That is a good question. Do you think that anyone would need to research that question? I do not think so, as one instinctively knows that it would cause a plethora of problems for the child. Just like the idea of consenting to the placement of children with same sex couples needs no research, you instinctively know that it is wrong.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
But heterosexuality is not a sex act. Nor is homosexuality. They are sexual orientations.
Sorry. I did not see that you had responded to that comment.

The LDS Church believes and teaches that same-sex attraction is not sinful. However, acting on same-sex attraction (homosexual acts) are sinful.

A member of the LDS Church who has a same-sex attraction and instead of succumbing to it, struggles against it, is received in full fellowship and they may be worthy to partake of the Sacrament and even participate in Temple ordinances, as long as he/she remains faithful.

The world may label someone a homosexual simply for having a same-sex attraction, but the LDS Church does not.

It is similar to saying that you would not label someone who has a great desire to steal a "thief" until he/she actually stole something.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Which is one more than he had done to your view.



No he didn't. You accused him of doing it but he never did. You continue to use this strawman, nothing more



Never said you didn't.



He didn't declare anything. He argued against your interpretation. You become emotional over it and started to create strawman arguments in order to compensate.
In post #2229, he said that "we disregard" the claim of the LDS Church that the original Church of Jesus Christ had been lost.

In post #2241, I asked him, "I'd like to know who this "we" is. Who is "we"? Who is the "us" you mentioned earlier? Who do you feel entitled to speak for?"

He responded to my question in post #2249, "The set of all people who are not Mormon."

He most definitely claimed that the entire world outside the LDS Church (all people who are not Mormon) agreed with his view on this issue.
 

Pudding

Well-Known Member
Absolutely not, that would be a terrible thing to do, especially for the child. It should have never been allowed in the first place, however, if I could do anything about it then I would stop it immediately.
Luckily you have no power to do such immoral things to harming those innocent people.
I guess some faithful believer do take great pleasure or feeling justice by using their egotistical religious moral/law to harming innocent people.
It's so disgraceful those faithful believer can be so insistence in bringing agony to innoccent people.

That is a good question. Do you think that anyone would need to research that question? I do not think so, as one instinctively knows that it would cause a plethora of problems for the child. Just like the idea of consenting to the placement of children with same sex couples needs no research, you instinctively know that it is wrong.
Oh the common sense bs.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Luckily you have no power to do such immoral things to harming those innocent people.
I guess some faithful believer do take great pleasure or feeling justice by using their egotistical religious moral/law to harming innocent people.
It's so disgraceful those faithful believer can be so insistence in bringing agony to innoccent people.
Oh the common sense bs.

What a lovely post. Insulting, hostile, misrepresentation, anti-religious, judgemental. You have it all going on for you there, that's for sure

Look at what I said: "Absolutely not, that would be a terrible thing to do, especially for the child. It should have never been allowed in the first place, however, if I could do anything about it then I would stop it immediately." What is immoral about that and where does it bring agony to anyone.
 
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