Mormon Excommunicated for advocating female priesthood.

[Katzpur]

I am not bias against the LDS.

If that is not the biggest lie I have ever seen posted on this forum, I don't know what is.

 

[Mycroft]

If that is not the biggest lie I have ever seen posted on this forum, I don't know what is.

I am bias against Joseph Smith. The LDS believers are merely victims.

 

[Katzpur]

This has been a very big issue recently among LDS circles.

That's your standard charge -- one you've made in post after post after post on this board. If it's not your own opinion, it's biased.

Then perhaps you could prove me wrong? But you may excuse me if I don't get my hopes up when the thread is started with the words "criminal and misogynist".

Apex, you are 100% correct in what you are saying. Sunstone, you are 100% wrong. For starters, what on earth does the OP's personal opinion of Joseph Smith have to do with the excommunication of a woman from the LDS Church in 2014? THe OP was deliberately inflammatory. It makes me wonder whether we're supposed to be debating the appropriateness of the excommunication or Joseph Smith's character.

 

[Vinayaka]

Unless it is affecting you personally like...
-Your wife wants a divorce over differences in religion
- Proselytisers hassle you
- a family member like a cousin of brother wants to preach at you every time you meet

I really can't understand why anyone would bother about what happens in some other religion, as long as its not crimes against humanity, in which I think we all need to take a stance, after due thought and reflection.

I admit to occasionally seeing something in another religion that bothers me and expressing it ... too spontaneous of a reaction. Bit as long as that's not in MY religion or my interpretation of it, what's the point?

 

[Katzpur]

I am bias against Joseph Smith. The LDS believers are merely victims.

Total BS.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Unless it is affecting you personally like...
-Your wife wants a divorce over differences in religion
- Proselytisers hassle you
- a family member like a cousin of brother wants to preach at you every time you meet

I really can't understand why anyone would bother about what happens in some other religion, as long as its not crimes against humanity, in which I think we all need to take a stance, after due thought and reflection.

I admit to occasionally seeing something in another religion that bothers me and expressing it ... too spontaneous of a reaction. Bit as long as that's not in MY religion or my interpretation of it, what's the point?

Speaking as someone who's heavily invoved in STEM education (including getting girls excited about science and engineering), I tend to bristle whenever we as a society tell kids that certain things they're passionate about are off-limits... especially when it involves denying opportunities to girls and women.

My issues with the LDS Church aside, why should it be any less of an issue for me when a woman feels called to a Mormon priesthood but is not allowed to follow through than when another woman feels called to be a microbiologist but isn't allowed to follow through on that?

I spend quite a bit of my volunteer life trying to encourage kids to pursue whatever they feel passionate about. Why should I not do this if a kid's passion happens to be religious? What should I say to them? "Sorry, but I only want your life to be fulfilling if you want to do something secular"?

 

[Mycroft]

Apex, you are 100% correct in what you are saying. Sunstone, you are 100% wrong. For starters, what on earth does the OP's personal opinion of Joseph Smith have to do with the excommunication of a woman from the LDS Church in 2014? THe OP was deliberately inflammatory. It makes me wonder whether we're supposed to be debating the appropriateness of the excommunication or Joseph Smith's character.

It has to do with the fact that Smith was a mysoginist, and these views have prevailed in the LDS culminating in this article.

 

[Mycroft]

Total BS.

Might I be so bold as to ask a question in the hope of receiving an honest answer?

How did you (under what circumstances) become a Mormon?

 

[Vinayaka]

Speaking as someone who's heavily invoved in STEM education (including getting girls excited about science and engineering), I tend to bristle whenever we as a society tell kids that certain things they're passionate about are off-limits... especially when it involves denying opportunities to girls and women.

My issues with the LDS Church aside, why should it be any less of an issue for me when a woman feels called to a Mormon priesthood but is not allowed to follow through than when another woman feels called to be a microbiologist but isn't allowed to follow through on that?

I spend quite a bit of my volunteer life trying to encourage kids to pursue whatever they feel passionate about. Why should I not do this if a kid's passion happens to be religious? What should I say to them? "Sorry, but I only want your life to be fulfilling if you want to do something secular"?

You make good points, but generally there is difference between religions and secular life. I was a counsellor as well, and I can't recall discussing religion at all. But you'll be happy to know my daughter is an electrician. I taught several girls over the years that went on to male dominated jobs. One is a pilot.

Have you had kids ask you why STEM isn't expanded to include religion.

 

[Revoltingest]

It has to do with the fact that Smith was a mysoginist, and these views have prevailed in the LDS culminating in this article.

I know nothing of LDS history.
Why was he a mysogynist?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You make good points, but generally there is difference between religions and secular life. I was a counsellor as well, and I can't recall discussing religion at all. But you'll be happy to know my daughter is an electrician. I taught several girls over the years that went on to male dominated jobs. One is a pilot.

Have you had kids ask you why STEM isn't expanded to include religion.

The questions the kids ask tend to be focused on the robots and the games. I'm sure they could recognize that the program is about STEM education if they were asked directly, but most of the time it's about doing fun stuff with robots... and coincidentally starting to think more about applying for engineering programs now that they know a few real engineers.

The kids focus on the game and its challenges. And honestly, I wouldn't know how to begin making a sport out of religion.

 

[Mycroft]

I know nothing of LDS history.
Why was he a mysogynist?

Smith created an ingenious system of oppression, in which opposition towards men is tantamount to arguing with God. This is still obvious today as the LDS accused the excommunicated woman of Apostasy.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Smith created an ingenious system of oppression, in which opposition towards men is tantamount to arguing with God. This is still obvious today as the LDS accused the excommunicated woman of Apostasy.

It's also evident in their version of the afterlife: a woman may only enter by her husband and will spend her godhood pumping out heavenly babies.

 

[Mycroft]

It's also evident in their version of the afterlife: a woman may only enter by her husband and will spend her godhood pumping out heavenly babies.

A mechanism to ensure that women of the LDS have to marry and encourages polygamic (and not even polyamorous) behaviour.

 

[Katzpur]

It's also evident in their version of the afterlife: a woman may only enter by her husband and will spend her godhood pumping out heavenly babies.

Absolutely false.

 

[Katzpur]

A mechanism to ensure that women of the LDS have to marry and encourages polygamic (and not even polyamorous) behaviour.

According to LDS doctrine, a single man may progress no further in Heaven than a single woman.

 

[idav]

According to LDS doctrine, a single man may progress no further in Heaven than a single woman.

That is rather interesting, I didn't know that. I guess that goes without saying since only males get the priesthoods.

 

[Katzpur]

It has to do with the fact that Smith was a mysoginist, and these views have prevailed in the LDS culminating in this article.

That is such a load of crap, I can't even believe it. The LDS hierarchy does not looking kindly on dissenting opinions when it comes to matters of Church policy, but a dissenting woman would be treated no differently at all than a dissenting man.

 

[Katzpur]

That is rather interesting, I didn't know that. I guess that goes without saying since only males get the priesthoods.

I'm not following how these two issues are related, but my statement is accurate. Mormons believe that the greatest blessings in Heaven are reserved for married couples. Now argue that that's not fair, if you want, but it's absolutely false to say that a woman can't get into Heaven without her husband's permission.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Absolutely false.

So exaltation has nothing to do with marriage and doesn't come with an obligation to breed incessantly, as Brigham Young stated?

"Having fought the good fight we then shall be prepared to lay our bodies down to rest to await the morning of the resurrection when they will come forth and be reunited with the spirits, the faithful, as it is said, receiving crowns, glory, immortality and eternal lives, even a fullness with the Father, …Then will they become gods, even the sons of God; then will they become eternal fathers, eternal mothers, eternal sons and eternal daughters; being eternal in their organization, they go from glory to glory, from power to power; they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God.”
(Second LDS Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876)

Obviously others share this view:

“Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters; indeed, there will be no end to the increase of his own children: for each father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever and ever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. Thus each God forms a world for the accommodation of his own sons and daughters who are sent forth in their times and seasons, and generations to be born into the same. The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited.”
(Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, 37, March 1853)

It's even there in the manual:

“By definition, exaltation includes the ability to procreate the family unit throughout eternity.” —Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, p. 129