Mormon Fundamentalism: Blacks & the Priesthood

[Bishka]

wrong, he is not LDS, he has his religion title as "True Mormon" which is kind of insulting but i let it slide, and He practices poligamy and "fundamentalist" ideals. those found practicing those things who are part of the LDS church are excommunicated.

Gordon B. Hinckley even stated, "There is no such thing as a fundamentalist mormon."

I don;t care if you create a Sub forum, but he is not part of the LDS community and should not be representing us.

I don't care if they represent themselves separately, that is fine as logn as there is a clear definition that they are not "Mormon", or "LDS"

He clearly has stated he is not a part of the LDS Church. He's said it multiple times -- lay off.

 

[Sthatting]

oops. I thought he started this thread to debate the topic after it was brought up in his welcome thread.

So what are the rules about members of the same IR disagreeing?

Wrong. I created it at the urging of madhatter85 to discuss not debate. Apparently it turned into that, though.

I'll just be more careful in the future about what I respond to and what I don't. :cover: Lesson learned.

 

[Sthatting]

I don't see Sthatting as trying to represent us. He's trying to represent a different branch of Mormonism, and he's welcome to do so. I think having him here will help people differentiate between us and FLDS.

Sthatting, welcome to the forums. I believe I just answered a question of yours on the LDS foru.ms site. Glad to see you here, too!

I got it. Thanks for the answer.

 

[Sthatting]

wrong, he is not LDS, he has his religion title as "True Mormon" which is kind of insulting but i let it slide, and He practices poligamy and "fundamentalist" ideals. those found practicing those things who are part of the LDS church are excommunicated.

I wish you would've said something to me about it. I just changed it. I never meant to barge in here trying to offend someone. That's just another name for Mormon Fundamentalism.

And where have I said that I practiced polygamy?

Just for the record, I am a member of the LDS Church, but I represent in NO WAY the teachings of that church, but let me tell you what my bishop, his counselor, and the missionaries have said to me:

1. They have confirmed that the Adam-God "theory" or "doctrine" was of God.
2. That marriage is eternal and polygamy is an eternal ordinance of God.
3. The reason polygamy is not practiced now is because the government said no and the church concurred.

I left because I found out everything was "unofficial" doctrine and I didn't like the idea of presenting one set of ideas and disowning the others. If the "unofficial" is true, to me, it felt like I had to be stupider and stupider to talk to friends about the LDS Church. I didn't want to do that, and I didn't want to misrepresent them, so I promptly left and joined the rest of my family in Mormon Fundamentalism.

They have not excommunicated me yet, and I doubt they will. You'd be surprised how many of us "fundamentalists" DON'T practice polygamy.

Gordon B. Hinckley even stated, "There is no such thing as a fundamentalist mormon."

I don;t care if you create a Sub forum, but he is not part of the LDS community and should not be representing us.

I don't care if they represent themselves separately, that is fine as logn as there is a clear definition that they are not "Mormon", or "LDS"

 

[nutshell]

Sthatting,

You're a great representation of your faith - better than certain LDS posters are of their own.

Welcome.

 

[Comprehend]

I wish you would've said something to me about it. I just changed it. I never meant to barge in here trying to offend someone. That's just another name for Mormon Fundamentalism.

And where have I said that I practiced polygamy?

Just for the record, I am a member of the LDS Church, but I represent in NO WAY the teachings of that church, but let me tell you what my bishop, his counselor, and the missionaries have said to me:

1. They have confirmed that the Adam-God "theory" or "doctrine" was of God.
2. That marriage is eternal and polygamy is an eternal ordinance of God.
3. The reason polygamy is not practiced now is because the government said no and the church concurred.

I left because I found out everything was "unofficial" doctrine and I didn't like the idea of presenting one set of ideas and disowning the others. If the "unofficial" is true, to me, it felt like I had to be stupider and stupider to talk to friends about the LDS Church. I didn't want to do that, and I didn't want to misrepresent them, so I promptly left and joined the rest of my family in Mormon Fundamentalism.

They have not excommunicated me yet, and I doubt they will. You'd be surprised how many of us "fundamentalists" DON'T practice polygamy.

woah there. Now we have a problem.

You are claiming that an LDS bishop, councilor and Missionaries told you #1? That is absolutely wrong. If you and your bishop and the others insist on sticking to that belief, you all will be excommunicated.

I am quite sure of this. My own brother was.

What ward do you belong to?

If your bishop and others "confirmed" #1, it was out of ignorance, or stupidity.

The Adam-God doctrine is not of Adam... I mean God (oops), and you aren't going to be able to go around here claiming that it is LDS doctrine without a vigorous fight. It isn't.

If you disagree, let's have a 1-on-1 debate on what the LDS church has "confirmed" about the Adam-God doctrine. I've done a fair bit of research on it.

The other two points are at least defenseable.

 

[nutshell]

woah there. Now we have a problem.

You are claiming that an LDS bishop, councilor and Missionaries told you #1? That is absolutely wrong.

Woah there, comprehend. A bishop councilor and missionaries very well may have told him what he's claiming. The doctrine may be wrong, but we can't prove he wasn't told this.

 

[Comprehend]

Woah there, comprehend. A bishop councilor and missionaries very well may have told him what he's claiming. The doctrine may be wrong, but we can't prove he wasn't told this.

uh. yeah.

I didn't say that we could.

When I said "that is absolutely wrong" I was obviously talking about the doctrine, it would be dumb to say that he wasn't told that since I didn't happen to be there.

 

[SoyLeche]

You are claiming that an LDS bishop, councilor and Missionaries told you #1? That is absolutely wrong. If you and your bishop and the others insist on sticking to that belief, you all will be excommunicated.

I'm not sure they would be excommunicated for "believing" it, but they probably would for "teaching" it.

 

[nutshell]

uh. yeah.

I didn't say that we could.

When I said "that is absolutely wrong" I was obviously talking about the doctrine, it would be dumb to say that he wasn't told that since I didn't happen to be there.

It wasn't so obvious. Check out the sentence directly before you said "that is absolutely wrong."

 

[Sthatting]

woah there. Now we have a problem.

You are claiming that an LDS bishop, councilor and Missionaries told you #1? That is absolutely wrong. If you and your bishop and the others insist on sticking to that belief, you all will be excommunicated.

It's personal belief. I never said it was official doctrine. On the contrary, if you look at my statement, I said it was UNOFFICIAL doctrine.

I am quite sure of this. My own brother was.

Wow! That's sad that he was excommunicated over a personal belief.

What ward do you belong to?

HAHAHA! This is the Internet. I don't know who you are, and you don't know who I am.

If your bishop and others "confirmed" #1, it was out of ignorance, or stupidity.

Or maybe it was a personal belief? You know, I can believe different things that my church doesn't teach, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong for doing so. However, with your mention of your brother's excommunication, maybe I can't even have personal beliefs unless the church says so first.

Something tells me that isn't the case. I think SoyLeche is probably right. I know plenty who believe it and they haven't been excommunicated. They just present one set of doctrines for potential converts, and one for church members. I'd prefer just to throw everything out in the open and THEN let the individual make up their mind. If it really is of God, then the Holy Spirit will confirm those teachings. If not, then the Holy Spirit will not.

The Adam-God doctrine is not of Adam... I mean God (oops), and you aren't going to be able to go around here claiming that it is LDS doctrine without a vigorous fight. It isn't.

Hahaha! I get the joke. And again, I never made that claim. I merely said that my old bishop had confirmed it as being from God (after it was already confirmed by the Holy Spirit to me).

If you disagree, let's have a 1-on-1 debate on what the LDS church has "confirmed" about the Adam-God doctrine. I've done a fair bit of research on it.

No thank you. I see little point in debating. Discussions, sure, but not debating. Besides, the LDS Church considers only the 4 standard works to be doctrinally binding.

LDS Newsroom - Approaching Mormon Doctrine

By that, the only things that they've admitted is Michael. After that it's left up to individual interpretation.

The other two points are at least defenseable.

 

[madhatter85]

It's personal belief. I never said it was official doctrine. On the contrary, if you look at my statement, I said it was UNOFFICIAL doctrine.

IT is nor Unofficial doctrine nor official doctrine, it is not taught or talked about in the LDS church. IT brings up too much confusion.

Wow! That's sad that he was excommunicated over a personal belief.

It's better that a person be excommunicated than to go through the covenants not haveing a true testimony of the trues restored gospel. excommunication is not a condemnation it is a release of covenants so that it makes repentance easier.

HAHAHA! This is the Internet. I don't know who you are, and you don't know who I am.

I am quite sure it was a rhetoric.

Or maybe it was a personal belief? You know, I can believe different things that my church doesn't teach, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong for doing so. However, with your mention of your brother's excommunication, maybe I can't even have personal beliefs unless the church says so first.

Wrong, you can have personal beliefs, but if you don't have a testimony of the true restored gospel you can in nowise enter the house of the Lord. nor can you partake of the blessings thereof.

Something tells me that isn't the case. I think SoyLeche is probably right. I know plenty who believe it and they haven't been excommunicated. They just present one set of doctrines for potential converts, and one for church members. I'd prefer just to throw everything out in the open and THEN let the individual make up their mind. If it really is of God, then the Holy Spirit will confirm those teachings. If not, then the Holy Spirit will not.

Telling peopel one thing to get them converted then another thing once they are members is total horse crap. that is being a hypocrite. it's like "bait-and-switch" advertising. We throw everything out in the open and let peopel make up thier minds.

Hahaha! I get the joke. And again, I never made that claim. I merely said that my old bishop had confirmed it as being from God (after it was already confirmed by the Holy Spirit to me).

Wrong it was not from God because it is not true. It came from man it is falliable.


No thank you. I see little point in debating. Discussions, sure, but not debating. Besides, the LDS Church considers only the 4 standard works to be doctrinally binding.

LDS Newsroom - Approaching Mormon Doctrine

By that, the only things that they've admitted is Michael. After that it's left up to individual interpretation.[/quote]

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

You should try reading things before posting links to them.

 

[Bishka]

We throw everything out in the open and let peopel make up thier minds.

Actually, 'we' (as I assume you are speaking from LDS Church's viewpoint) do not 'throw' everything out in the opne for people to make up their minds. May I remind you of the temple covenants? 'We' most certainly do not 'throw' those out in the open.

No thank you. I see little point in debating. Discussions, sure, but not debating. Besides, the LDS Church considers only the 4 standard works to be doctrinally binding.

That's nice, but shatting is not trying to debate the LDS Church, he is trying to explain his church's position.

You should take the advice of Brigham Young in your signature.

 

[madhatter85]

Actually, 'we' (as I assume you are speaking from LDS Church's viewpoint) do not 'throw' everything out in the opne for people to make up their minds. May I remind you of the temple covenants? 'We' most certainly do not 'throw' those out in the open.

Those we may not throw out into the open, but there is nothing in the temple that would make anyoen uneasy as long as they have a real testimony.

That's nice, but shatting is not trying to debate the LDS Church, he is trying to explain his church's position.

You should take the advice of Brigham Young in your signature.

I'm not taring down his religion, he can believe what he wants, but he should not be representing us that is what i have said. and trying to tell us what our doctrine is when he doesn't know.

 

[Bishka]

I'm not taring down his religion, he can believe what he wants, but he should not be representing us that is what i have said. and trying to tell us what our doctrine is when he doesn't know.

From what I can tell, he's not representing us, he's representing his church and his beliefs.

 

[SoyLeche]

It wasn't so obvious. Check out the sentence directly before you said "that is absolutely wrong."

You should probably check out the sentance directly after it

 

[Comprehend]

It wasn't so obvious. Check out the sentence directly before you said "that is absolutely wrong."

Thanks. I am aware of what I said.

You would have to be mentally challenged to take it any other way than that what they said was wrong.

Like I said, it is obvious.

 

[DeepShadow]

I'm not sure they would be excommunicated for "believing" it, but they probably would for "teaching" it.

Bears repeating.

 

[Comprehend]

I'm not sure they would be excommunicated for "believing" it, but they probably would for "teaching" it.

My brother was excommunicated because he insisted that the Adam-God doctrine was true and that the current church leaders were hiding it. I don't know that he ever taught it in church (we didn't live near each other at the time) but I don't think he did.

I don't know if that is normal or not.

 

[Comprehend]

Bears repeating.

Wouldn't you think that they are teaching it when the bishop and missionaries tell that to a member of the ward?