Mortality

[javajo]

Most people agree that Jesus was of the highest character and a profoundly great teacher. He taught that we could have eternal life. The Bible says this mortal will put on immortality, and some living will not taste death but will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus and in that same moment will be transformed from mortal and corruptible (sinful) to immortal, incorruptible, and glorified. That is fascinating to me and believing that brings me great hope and joy as I face my own mortality. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[jarofthoughts]

Me neither. Except when I study Jesus I see a profound difference in his character and teachings and when I look at the OT prophecies he fulfilled, I find more and more reason to believe him.

On the off chance of going somewhat off topic; sounds a lot like special pleading to me.
Also; it seems pretty obvious that a lot of the story was made up to fit those prophecies after the fact (i.e. they lied), which actually lends some credibility to there having actually been a guy like that at some point, but which makes it rather clear that he was not who the Bible claims he was.

Ignorance is bliss eh? Briefly, I believe sin is falling short of the perfect holiness of God.

But since I don't believe that there is a god in the first place, the concept is meaningless.

To know more precisely how we fall short, God gave us the Law (10 commandments) and our conscience.

Twice.
According to the Bible he gave them to us twice, with some editing involved in between.

So, to murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, covet, disobey one's parents, take God's name in vain, or worship other 'gods' would be sin.

So, before this people thought that things like murder and theft was a-ok?

I think children have the least jaded or hardened conscience as when they do wrong, say hit their sibling then lie about it, they feel intense guilt.

I think you have a slightly rosy-eyed view of children.

The Bible, which is what I believe in, defines what sin is and says we all have sinned. This is a serious matter, as it says the penalty of sin is death. Adam sinned and passed his sinful nature down to all man so that all have sinned.

But then again, we know that the Biblical Adam and Eve never existed. :sarcastic
Which means that there could not have been any original sin, which in turn means that the whole '¨Jesus died for our sins' thing somewhat difficult to swallow...

Jesus, who is God Incarnate (in the flesh) was born sinless (as he was not born of man, but conceived of the Holy Spirit) and did not sin, yet he took all our sins on himself and paid the penalty (death) on the cross.

So, god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive us for sins we had committed against him?
Makes perfect sense...

Thanks for your replies and Happy Thanksgiving!

Likewise.

 

[javajo]

But since I don't believe that there is a god in the first place, the concept is meaningless.

Ok, I'll leave you to your beliefs.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Most people agree that Jesus was of the highest character and a profoundly great teacher.

Only if one accepts that he actually was the son of god.
If he was not, then he was either insane or incredibly wicked.

He taught that we could have eternal life. The Bible says this mortal will put on immortality, and some living will not taste death but will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus and in that same moment will be transformed from mortal and corruptible (sinful) to immortal, incorruptible, and glorified.

That's nice.
That's also utterly and completely unfounded in anything resembling evidence.
But hey, people can believe what they want.

That is fascinating to me and believing that brings me great hope and joy as I face my own mortality. Happy Thanksgiving!

At this point it seems fitting to ask a somewhat central question regarding all of this:
Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?

 

[javajo]

Only if one accepts that he actually was the son of god.
If he was not, then he was either insane or incredibly wicked.
That's nice.
That's also utterly and completely unfounded in anything resembling evidence.
But hey, people can believe what they want.
At this point it seems fitting to ask a somewhat central question regarding all of this:
Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?

Like I said, I'll leave you to your own beliefs.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Like I said, I'll leave you to your own beliefs.

I hope you don't think this means that I will stop replying to your post when and if I feel the need to do so?

 

[javajo]

I hope you don't think this means that I will stop replying to your post when and if I feel the need to do so?

No, that's fine. We just believe very differently and I respect that. I won't be around much starting Monday, back to work, yea! (very weak, yea...)

 

[jarofthoughts]

No, that's fine. We just believe very differently and I respect that. I won't be around much starting Monday, back to work, yea! (very weak, yea...)

Hey, work comes before internet discussions.
I have no problem with the fact that we think very differently about certain things.
I just like a good discussion, but I'm not about to force anyone to participate in one if they don' want to (don't see how I could even if I wanted to, but that's beside the point...).

 

[Alceste]

'The ten thousand years after I am dead will bother me no more than the ten thousand before I was born.'
- Mark Twain

That's exactly what I was going to say. Ninja'd by Mark Twain again. Dammit.

 

[Alceste]

I often feel compelled to tell everyone who cares about me - my parents, my partner, my friends - that if something terrible happens and I die tomorrow, not to feel regretful or sorrowful about any quantity of potential life I may have missed out on. I'm 37 - only about halfway to dead by most projections. I somehow want to convey to my family and friends that I'm satisfied - deeply sated - I am completely OK with whatever quantity of sentience I get the miraculous privilege to experience.

How do you tell people that though? Seems like a bizarre conversation.

My greatest fear regarding death is that my mother might outlive me. I won't care, I'll be dead, but she'd spend the rest of her life mourning for the future she expected for me that never occurred.

I also fear death by human violence. It's bizarre - the thought of being horribly mauled in an accident is no big deal, but the thought of being intentionally horribly mauled by another human who takes pleasure from the act is absolutely terrifying.