Mosaic law still present?

[IndigoChild5559]

Ancient Israel didn't include any major cities either.

Ancient Jerusalem was tiny .. and all of Palestine never had a population of over 600,000.. In fact, that's a stretch.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City - Biblical Archaeology Society

Look at the Canaanite City states I posted for you.

In ancient times, ALL cities were tiny by today's standards.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have often named the early 1st century collected (mainly) Jewish provinces as 'Israel', but of course some folks have wanted to correct me, naming this territory 'Palestine'.

Then I don't think we have an argument. The only point I would make is that the Romans would not have referred to the territory as either Israel or Palestine at that time. I'm not sure what they would have referred to it as, or even if they had a term.

 

[Thief]

Did Jesus do away with it?

that question was put to the Carpenter Himself....

Have you come to abolish the law?
He replied...
I have not come to abolish the old law...I have come to fulfill it

the old law was retro active..... a tooth for a tooth .....an eye for an eye
the harm done
and punishment followed

you end up with a badly wounded community

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you
is PROactive
you first

the Pharisees sought to have Him dead from that hour forward

what He had quoted was heathen law
it was carved in stone a thousand years before Him
everyone knew it
but it was not the law of Moses

in the eyes of the Pharisees it was heresy

 

[IndigoChild5559]

what He had quoted was heathen law
it was carved in stone a thousand years before Him
everyone knew it
but it was not the law of Moses

Leviticus 19:18 love your neighbor as yourself

Rabbi Hillel taught was the head of the Sanhedrin beginning about 30 years before Jesus. Listen as he teaches this Gentile convert the essence of Torah:
Shabbat 31a
There was another incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai and said to Shammai: Convert me on condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one foot. Shammai pushed him away with the builder’s cubit in his hand. This was a common measuring stick and Shammai was a builder by trade. The same gentile came before Hillel. He converted him and said to him: That which is hateful to you do not do to another; that is the entire Torah, and the rest is its interpretation. Go study.

 

[sooda]

In ancient times, ALL cities were tiny by today's standards.

Exactly .. a city might be 3000.. towns and villages a few hundred.

 

[oldbadger]

Then I don't think we have an argument. The only point I would make is that the Romans would not have referred to the territory as either Israel or Palestine at that time. I'm not sure what they would have referred to it as, or even if they had a term.

OK.....
I would like to discover more on this subject, any collective name given to these provinces.
I'll keep a watch for any pre 1st century references to the region.

 

[sooda]

OK.....
I would like to discover more on this subject, any collective name given to these provinces.
I'll keep a watch for any pre 1st century references to the region.

Syria and Palestine: from the 6th century BC. The Roman rulers are not the first to link Syria administratively with Palestine. In the late 6th century Darius makes Syria and Palestine, together with Cyprus, the fifth satrapy of his empire.

During the Seleucid dynasty Syria and Palestine are under joint control in the 2nd century.

More here:

HISTORY OF SYRIA AND PALESTINE

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Exactly .. a city might be 3000.. towns and villages a few hundred.

Ancient Israel had many cities -- we are not talking about just towns and villages. Are you saying that Shiloh was a mere village?

 

[sooda]

Ancient Israel had many cities -- we are not talking about just towns and villages. Are you saying that Shiloh was a mere village?

I know its 4000 years old, but I can't find any population figures. If 2 million people left Egypt with their herds and King David's Jerusalem was 10 acres and fewer than 2000 people, I guess they went somewhere.

oops Looks like Shiloh was 4.5 acres
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/file.axd?file=2018/1/Go_Now_to_Shiloh_Renewed_Excavations_at.pdf

 

[Thief]

Cain built a city....

I will start a thread

 

[oldbadger]

Syria and Palestine: from the 6th century BC. The Roman rulers are not the first to link Syria administratively with Palestine. In the late 6th century Darius makes Syria and Palestine, together with Cyprus, the fifth satrapy of his empire.

During the Seleucid dynasty Syria and Palestine are under joint control in the 2nd century.

More here:

HISTORY OF SYRIA AND PALESTINE

Not Palestine.
@IndigoChild5559 may be right about this, and supported by the link that you provided.

Your link, further down, tells that Rome befriended the Herod family and sent him, in 37BC, together with an army to take control of the whole area around Jerusalem and Rome and proclaimed Herod 'King of Judaea' that being the whole of the Jewish territories.
And so it looks as if Judah was one of the provinces in Judaea from 37bc until after the revolts in the 50sAD.
The Romans called the whole lot Judaea, then.

Well, what a surprise that is for me, never saw that before in many years of study.
..................

You queried the existence of the Antonian fortress adjacent to the Temple.

Flavius Josephus stayed in it in about 50AD at the beginning of the troubles.
Josephus 'Life' 5

 

[sooda]

Not Palestine.
@IndigoChild5559 may be right about this, and supported by the link that you provided.

Your link, further down, tells that Rome befriended the Herod family and sent him, in 37BC, together with an army to take control of the whole area around Jerusalem and Rome and proclaimed Herod 'King of Judaea' that being the whole of the Jewish territories.
And so it looks as if Judah was one of the provinces in Judaea from 37bc until after the revolts in the 50sAD.
The Romans called the whole lot Judaea, then.

Well, what a surprise that is for me, never saw that before in many years of study.
..................

You queried the existence of the Antonian fortress adjacent to the Temple.

Flavius Josephus stayed in it in about 50AD at the beginning of the troubles.
Josephus 'Life' 5

I believe the Western Wall is all that remains of Fortress Antonia.

It was Syria-Palestine prior to the Romans.

 

[sooda]

Cain built a city....

I will start a thread

In the OT the city was called Enoch (or Chanoch).

 

[oldbadger]

I believe the Western Wall is all that remains of Fortress Antonia.

It was Syria-Palestine prior to the Romans.

Sooda, in the time of Jesus it was all Judaea, all of it, as shown in your link. North to South, East to West, Judaea.

And clearly, Fortress Antonia existed in the time of Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know its 4000 years old, but I can't find any population figures. If 2 million people left Egypt with their herds and King David's Jerusalem was 10 acres and fewer than 2000 people, I guess they went somewhere.

oops Looks like Shiloh was 4.5 acres
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/file.axd?file=2018/1/Go_Now_to_Shiloh_Renewed_Excavations_at.pdf

I don't always take the Torah literally. 2 million people simply means, "A heck of a lot." But yes, there were other cities. Remember that Jerusalem was not the capital city before David. Samaria was probably pretty big.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Sooda, in the time of Jesus it was all Judaea, all of it, as shown in your link. North to South, East to West, Judaea.

Just to make sure that I understand you, you are saying that the provinces of Samaria and Gallilee were also referred to as Judea?

 

[oldbadger]

Just to make sure that I understand you, you are saying that the provinces of Samaria and Gallilee were also referred to as Judea?

It appears as so.
And later on, after Archelaus was retired and a Prefect appointed, that person controlled Samaria, Idumea and Judah..... half of the kingdom called Judaea. The Tetrarchs controlled the rest.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It appears as so.
And later on, after Archelaus was retired and a Prefect appointed, that person controlled Samaria, Idumea and Judah..... half of the kingdom called Judaea. The Tetrarchs controlled the rest.

Okay, that's what I originally started off saying, that the whole territory ruled by Herod was Judea.

What caused me problems was when I remembered that you could also divide it into Judea, Samaria and Gallilee. Then I thought, "Wait... Is Judea a smaller territory within, or is it the name of the complete territory?" and I doubted myself. Hey I *do* make mistakes. So I backed off and said I didn't know the name of the territory.

But apparently it's like "New York, New York," where Judea is a smaller territory, within the complete territory ruled by Herod.

 

[sooda]

Okay, that's what I originally started off saying, that the whole territory ruled by Herod was Judea.

What caused me problems was when I remembered that you could also divide it into Judea, Samaria and Gallilee. Then I thought, "Wait... Is Judea a smaller territory within, or is it the name of the complete territory?" and I doubted myself. Hey I *do* make mistakes. So I backed off and said I didn't know the name of the territory.

But apparently it's like "New York, New York," where Judea is a smaller territory, within the complete territory ruled by Herod.

Herod Antipas rule

Image: billpetro.com
After being recognized by Augustus upon the death of his father, Herod the Great (c. 4 BC/AD 1), and subsequent ethnarch rule by his brother, Herod Archelaus, Antipas officially ruled Galilee and Perea as a client state of the Roman Empire.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Herod Antipas rule

Image: billpetro.com
After being recognized by Augustus upon the death of his father, Herod the Great (c. 4 BC/AD 1), and subsequent ethnarch rule by his brother, Herod Archelaus, Antipas officially ruled Galilee and Perea as a client state of the Roman Empire.

You mean it doesn't say he ruled Syria-Palestine?