Mosque at Ground Zero

[Sunstone]

It all makes for a very interesting drama however.

As an American, I am a fierce advocate of the truism that drama = truth and truth = drama.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The fact remains that this IS upsetting many of the families that lost loved ones. It comes across as a very insensitive thing to be doing. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about this simple human feeling?

"The entire anti-mosque campaign isn't about anything other than pure, paranoid Islamophobia. A Peyser column a few weeks ago was entirely about people in Sheepshead Bay -- some miles from Ground Zero -- protesting a proposed mosque solely because they're scared of Muslims.
Anyway, they had their protest yesterday. Mike Kelly of the Bergen (New Jersey) Record reported this heartwarming incident:

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.
"Get out," others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
"I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.
​

But don't you dare call these people bigots!"


From "Ground Zero Mosque" protest ends up, predictably, with racially-motivated hatred - War Room - Salon.com

 

[Alceste]

"
Anyway, they had their protest yesterday. Mike Kelly of the Bergen (New Jersey) Record reported this heartwarming incident:

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.
"Get out," others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
"I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.
​

But don't you dare call these people bigots!"


From "Ground Zero Mosque" protest ends up, predictably, with racially-motivated hatred - War Room - Salon.com

Well I just can't imagine what those Egyptians must have been thinking. What's so difficult to understand about simple human feeling? Brown people should steer well clear of New York out of respect for the non-brown victims of 9-11.

 

[Kathryn]

"The entire anti-mosque campaign isn't about anything other than pure, paranoid Islamophobia. A Peyser column a few weeks ago was entirely about people in Sheepshead Bay -- some miles from Ground Zero -- protesting a proposed mosque solely because they're scared of Muslims.
Anyway, they had their protest yesterday. Mike Kelly of the Bergen (New Jersey) Record reported this heartwarming incident:

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.
"Get out," others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
"I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.

​

But don't you dare call these people bigots!"


From "Ground Zero Mosque" protest ends up, predictably, with racially-motivated hatred - War Room - Salon.com

Here is the statement released by Joseph Nassralla - one of the two Egyptians who were involved in the incident above.

"There was a minor incident at the rally that was blown out of proportion, when my partner , Mr. Karam El Masry, and I were distributing material with some Quran verses and we were also speaking Arabic thus we were mistaken by a few people in the huge crowd, for being Muslims infiltrators trying to disrupt the event.

This misunderstanding was clarified when we explained who we were and that we are there to support the crowd against the building of the mosque. I was a little frustrated initially for being identified as a Muslim infiltrator, but was glad that the issue was resolved later. My partner, Mr. El Masry, was even able to freely speak to the crowd after our identity was clarified. He explained how Christians are tortured, killed and oppressed in Egypt at the hands of Muslims who are encouraged to persecute Christians from the pulpit of mosques by Muslim preachers.

The reason I am writing to you, is because I am very disappointed in the mainstream media who used this minor incident to make a blanket generalization about all the attendees of the rally as Muslim haters.This kind of generalization was unfair to the good American people who legitimately stand against the building of a mosque next to ground zero and who are against Islamist agenda in the US. I am very well aware of such an agenda which has destroyed the Christian and Jewish existence in the Middle East.

The same mainstream media who denounces painting all Muslims with a broad brush, is doing the same thing they claim to stand against. They shamelessly use our incident to paint with a broad brush that everyone in the rally was a Muslim hater. I want to make it clear that we are not haters of Muslims, but we are against the Islamist agenda in America, the same agenda that drove us out of our homeland Egypt. We have the right to expose Muslim hate and oppression against us, the minorities in the Middle East who are oppressed on a daily basis by the Muslim majority. This mosque should never be built next to ground zero, it is an insult to the memory of the 3000 fellow Americans."

Mosque Protest Statement From Joseph Nassralla *Crickets Chirping in Newsrooms Nationwide* - Atlas Shrugs

Now - I am not saying that I agree with his position, or his politics, when it comes to the building of the Islamic Center near Ground Zero.

The truth probably lies somewhere between "Salon" and "Atlas Shrugs." But if the race card is going to (once again) be bandied about by the media, political activists, and special interest groups - at least take the time to interview the brown people involved in the incidents being reported. It is, after all, THEIR experience that is being commented upon and used as a political weapon.

 

[EtuMalku]

Well, I live here, I know some of the families as well as people that lost their life in the murders. How do YOU know these families are shameless bigots and a pack of ignorant simpletons? It's obvious why you don't get what I'm talking about, you bring new meaning to the word 'insensitive'

It is difficult to understand when the "simple human feeling" in question is the shameless bigotry and wilful ignorance of a pack of simpletons. I'll bet you a hundred bucks you won't find one 9-11 "grieving family member" for every hundred cement-headed Glen Beck devotees bellowing about Sufis building a community centre in New York.

Do you think none of the victims of 9-11 were Muslim? Where are you getting your impression of these opposing "teams" which happen to be neatly divided along (embarassingly simplistic) religious boundaries from?

 

[Alceste]

Well, I live here, I know some of the families as well as people that lost their life in the murders. How do YOU know these families are shameless bigots and a pack of ignorant simpletons? It's obvious why you don't get what I'm talking about, you bring new meaning to the word 'insensitive'

Are you claiming the critics of the project are mainly family members of the deceased? And do you believe NONE of these grieving families are members of an ethnic group that might WANT a Muslim community centre? Please, think things through a bit.

 

[painted wolf]

well duh... we all no that no Muslims were victims of the 9/11 attacks.

And there were no Muslim rescue workers like [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica][FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Salman Hamdani who died trying to save lives that day. :bonk:

Think of the victims and their families!! All those good "all American" victims... not those other less than "all American" ones. :banghead3:

wa:do
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[EtuMalku]

Are you claiming the critics of the project are mainly family members of the deceased? And do you believe NONE of these grieving families are members of an ethnic group that might WANT a Muslim community centre? Please, think things through a bit.

Are you claiming they aren't? Can you answer ONE of my questions? Have you a CLUE? Do you know ONE family member of the Fallen?

There are a hundred mosques in NYC, why at this location? Smells like VICTORY for Allah to me.
FYI the bassist in my band is a Muslim, and He rejects this proposal, thinking it 'extremely' insensitive to the Fallen.

As P.T. Barnum never said " There's a sucker born every day"
Even better; Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does

EM

 

[Alceste]

EM, it is up to you to demonstrate that these partisan Beck-esque racist histrionics have something to do with the victims' families. You are the one making that claim.

 

[EtuMalku]

if you can answer ONE of my inquiries, then maybe I will entertain you. But, you haven't, and you won't. Why? Because you CAN'T.
Throwing diabetic words around like they were candy is easy, discussing this agenda seems to be well beyond your capabilities.

EM, it is up to you to demonstrate that these partisan Beck-esque racist histrionics have something to do with the victims' families. You are the one making that claim.

 

[Alceste]

if you can answer ONE of my inquiries, then maybe I will entertain you. But, you haven't, and you won't. Why? Because you CAN'T.
Throwing diabetic words around like they were candy is easy, discussing this agenda seems to be well beyond your capabilities.

You're right - xenophobic, reactionary histrionics are well beyond my capabilities. Try Glen Beck.

 

[Badran]

why at this location?

Why not? Its a very simple matter. A mosque, the muslim's house of worship, is proposed to be built two blocks or so away from this location. Why on earth shouldn't it be?

To have ill-feelings towards this, means you have ill-feelings towards all muslims, its as simple as that.

Smells like VICTORY for Allah to me.

How is it a victory for Allah, by which you mean a victory for muslims, when those very muslims have denounced the very act that you propose that this mosque would be a sign of their victory? Which by the way once again shows you're speaking about muslims in general.

 

[MissAlice]

Funny how the typical christian conservative american gets all excited over a mosque. By their perspective you'd think our country was being invaded by the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Evandr]

I smell something a bit fishy. I have absolutely no objection to anyone building a place of worship anywhere they can and want to but, given the unusual circumstances it seems the whole idea smacks of ulterior motives. On one hand it demonstrates our benevolence but to some it demonstrates our tail being between our legs.

These people did not have to choose this site but it is going to be a point that the extremist faction of Islam will snicker at for a long time as well as using it as a point to teach their children of America’s perceived weakness. Also, a lot of other people will find it hard to believe that Americans would allow such and then proceed to formulate opinions that reflect that surprise.

I believe that America’s enemies will be dancing on our national pride for a long time because of it. There is also the consideration that this house of worship may become a target for our own home grown extremists who might see it as an opportunity to exact an eye for an eye regardless of the fact that these are not even the same group of people that perpetrated 9/11 in the first place. I think this is a potential can of worms we could all do without.

 

[Alceste]

Turn down the crazy please. It's hurting my eyes. Thx.

 

[YmirGF]

Turn down the crazy please. It's hurting my eyes. Thx.

Oh, trust me, you don't want my opinion, for sure.

This song really says it all for me in regards to this mosque... err.. "cultural centre".


[youtube]01G2ZtT6h_w[/youtube]
EweToob - Nine Inch Nails - ETP FEST Aug. '09 --- Head Like a Hole [Live]

 

[Sunstone]

I smell something a bit fishy. I have absolutely no objection to anyone building a place of worship anywhere they can and want to but, given the unusual circumstances it seems the whole idea smacks of ulterior motives. On one hand it demonstrates our benevolence but to some it demonstrates our tail being between our legs.

These people did not have to choose this site but it is going to be a point that the extremist faction of Islam will snicker at for a long time as well as using it as a point to teach their children of America’s perceived weakness. Also, a lot of other people will find it hard to believe that Americans would allow such and then proceed to formulate opinions that reflect that surprise.

I believe that America’s enemies will be dancing on our national pride for a long time because of it. There is also the consideration that this house of worship may become a target for our own home grown extremists who might see it as an opportunity to exact an eye for an eye regardless of the fact that these are not even the same group of people that perpetrated 9/11 in the first place. I think this is a potential can of worms we could all do without.

It's always interesting when people let their enemies determine what they do.

 

[Kathryn]

People would be foolish NOT to take their enemies' motives into consideration.

 

[Sunstone]

People would be foolish NOT to take their enemies' motives into consideration.

There's a hell of a difference between that and effectively letting your enemy determine what you do, as some in this thread seem bent on doing.

 

[jmvizanko]

These people did not have to choose this site but it is going to be a point that the extremist faction of Islam will snicker at for a long time as well as using it as a point to teach their children of America’s perceived weakness.

And if their children have any intelligence, they will see it not as a weakness, but a beautiful strength of America: to be that dedicated to freedom.