Mosque at Ground Zero

[YmirGF]

This story just gets richer with each passing moment.

Now, the developer has been evicted from his SoHo Property for non-payment of rent, a week after the deal offered by Donald Trump to buy "Park51" site - at a profit to the current owner... which would have let him pay off some of his troubling bills. (source)

The developer of the Ground Zero mosque is being bounced from his SoHo office, the Daily News has learned.


Sharif El-Gamal, who runs the real estate firm Soho Properties and is heading the project two blocks from Ground Zero, was slapped with eviction proceedings last month after tallying up $39,000 in back rent, a Manhattan Housing Court filing shows.
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Likewise, that wonderful, peaceful fellow Iman Rauf has skipped a date in court to address the squalid conditions of two buildings he owns in New Jersey. Even the "brilliant" Daisy Khan didn't think the court date was important enough to make an appearance for.

Ground Zero mosque imam Feisal Rauf is a no-show in New Jersey court

While the Imam behind plans for a mosque near Ground Zero was jetting around the globe and advocating for his Downtown project, a pair of dilapidated apartment buildings he owns in New Jersey fell into such disrepair that cops have to stand watch in the event of a fire.
The fire watch, at taxpayer expense, was revealed during a court hearing today when Union City lawyers asked to have two buildings owned by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf placed into receivership so that rent s could be used to fix dozens of violations, including inoperable alarms and sprinklers.



Rauf skipped today’s hearing as did his wife Daisy Khan. Their lawyer, Tomas Espinosa, said he didn’t know why the Imam didn’t come to court.
“There have been a lot of stress on these people,” Espinosa said when asked after the hearing to explain why Rauf was a no-show “The legal process will show that my client is an honorable man that has taken care of his property.”
Asked why he was confident that Rauf would prevail, Espinosa said of the Imam, “There is integrity and character,” adding, “He is a man of peace.”
But Union City officials insist Rauf is a slumlord.

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And these folks are the right people to be building this project?

I wonder if we can expect the same managing "skills" to be utilized at the future "Islamic Community Center" or whatever they are calling it this week?
​

 

[Magic Man]

I'm sorry. Did you have a point, Ymir?

 

[Smoke]

I'm no fan of religion either, but I tend to give mainstream believers a pass and direct the majority of my contempt toward the Phelpses and bin Ladens of the world, and I do my best not to mix it all up into one homogenous, spooky mass of deluded, dangerous freaks.

Phelps doesn't bother me. He's not committing violent acts, and when you get right down to it, what he says about homosexuality is about the same as what the Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention say. It's just his manner of saying it that ticks people off. He certainly doesn't cause as much harm as, say, the Pope.

I do think religious moderates provide cover to religious extremists, and vice versa. However, the reality is that all the Muslims and Christians aren't going to go away, so we're going to have to figure out some way of living together.

I'm sorry. Did you have a point, Ymir?

In my experience Ymir always has a point. In this case, I suspect you know what it is.

 

[Magic Man]

In my experience Ymir always has a point. In this case, I suspect you know what it is.

Actually, I don't. I'm trying to figure out what point there is in saying "See? These guys aren't good people!".

 

[Smoke]

Actually, I don't. I'm trying to figure out what point there is in saying "See? These guys aren't good people!".

I think he's suggesting that there is good reason to question their motives, given certain apparent deficiencies in their character.

 

[Magic Man]

I think he's suggesting that there is good reason to question their motives, given certain apparent deficiencies in their character.

Ah, then I would question why the possibility of them being slumlords or delinquents would call into question their motives for this center.

 

[Smoke]

I've already gone further than a wise man would go in presuming to speak for Ymir.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ah, then I would question why the possibility of them being slumlords or delinquents would call into question their motives for this center.

It could be that he is calling into question legitimate concerns of character.

 

[Rakhel]

Gee I want to say "I told you so" but...well.... I told you that he needs to get his affairs in order before he thinks of building his "cultural center"

 

[Civil Conservative]

[The use of mosques by Hamas and other terrorist organizations and Islamic groups[/url]

"according to international laws governing of armed conflict, mosques used for military purposes lose the special protection afforded houses of worship "

This mosque is being built as a military statement, and therefore should lose it's protection imo.

Yeah.

I think we need to go a bit deeper into what qualifies as a religion. Q1 Would an Islamic Church of Osama Bin Ladin have the RIGHT to build in the US, much less near Ground Zero?

Don't label me. I didn't say Fiedal Abdul Rauf is Bin Ladin. But I think for complex issues on debate forums, we should take it one step at a time. Just be honest with the obvious question.

 

[Meow Mix]

Yeah.

I think we need to go a bit deeper into what qualifies as a religion. Q1 Would an Islamic Church of Osama Bin Ladin have the RIGHT to build in the US, much less near Ground Zero?

Don't label me. I didn't say Fiedal Abdul Rauf is Bin Ladin. But I think for complex issues on debate forums, we should take it one step at a time. Just be honest with the obvious question.

Yes, as long as they didn't violate anyone's rights.

 

[Adramelek]

Sharia Law is a touchy subject from the way it is translated to English and I'm sure it has added to the fear and distrust found in this country.

I'm not saying we don't have a good amount of bigotry and ignorance here, but this situation will never go away until a clear and intelligent Voice of Islam is brought forth that will ease the public's reservations and fears.

Don't hold your breath EM in regards to your last paragraph. As for Sharia law, it will never happen in the United States. Islam is simply outdated, and since women are concidered as second class citizens under Sharia doctrines, it is not fear but a matter of fact that any attempt on their part to try to make this free country sharia compliant will be met with a great social upheaval the likes of which we haven't seen since the Civil War. Furthmore, this so-called "Islamic Community Center" near gound zero will never be built! It will be cursed and plagued with unfortunate events on the very day they begin construction. :yes:

"Islamophobia", what a joke, just as I have no fear of any xtian, I sure as hell have no fear of muslims, I simply have no use for their religious jargon. And I diffinetely have no use for these mindless robots aka Islamic extremists who blow themselves up and at the same time murdering the inoccent - the only thing that awaits these brain-washed radicals in the "after-life" is total and absolute oblivion. :bat:

 

[Civil Conservative]

Yes, as long as they didn't violate anyone's rights.

Woah, MM! Are you trying to trick me?

Let me take a step backwards. The implication of course of a Church of Bin Ladin is they would not only violate rights, but they would also aim to kill innocent civilians. My attempt was to pose a question that everyone could agree on is a place where the US would deny a "church" the right to build.

Assuming after my comment that you changed your position, let's say its a Mosque that "comes in peace" but their money mainly comes from Bin Ladin. Would that Mosque have the right to be built?

 

[Meow Mix]

Woah, MM! Are you trying to trick me?

Let me take a step backwards. The implication of course of a Church of Bin Ladin is they would not only violate rights, but they would also aim to kill innocent civilians. My attempt was to pose a question that everyone could agree on is a place where the US would deny a "church" the right to build.

Assuming after my comment that you changed your position, let's say its a Mosque that "comes in peace" but their money mainly comes from Bin Ladin. Would that Mosque have the right to be built?

A church that believed killing live babies would be the most delightful activity in the world should be able to build -- as long as they don't violate anyone's rights.

It isn't illegal to hold thoughts and opinions; it's illegal to act on them if they violate rights.

So yes, a mosque that agreed with Osama bin Laden would indeed have the right to be constructed wherever it wanted. They'd no doubt be watched by some gov't organization or another if their dispositions were known, but they couldn't (and shouldn't) be denied their right to worship as they see fit if they don't violate anyone's rights during worship.

If a mosque receives money from bin Laden and that was a known fact then I don't know the legalities of that, it may well be illegal to receive aid from a known terrorist. I don't know.

But just believing Osama bin Laden is right is not illegal. This is America, we do not have thought police and we would all rue the day if we ever did.

 

[Magic Man]

It could be that he is calling into question legitimate concerns of character.

It could be, but what do those questions have to do with whether or not a community center or mosque should be built there? Maybe it'll turn out that these particular people aren't the right ones to do it, but that doesn't reflect on whether the project itself is a good idea.

 

[Rakhel]

A conceptual rendering of Park51

 

[dogsgod]

Woah, MM! Are you trying to trick me?

Let me take a step backwards. The implication of course of a Church of Bin Ladin is they would not only violate rights, but they would also aim to kill innocent civilians. My attempt was to pose a question that everyone could agree on is a place where the US would deny a "church" the right to build.

Assuming after my comment that you changed your position, let's say its a Mosque that "comes in peace" but their money mainly comes from Bin Ladin. Would that Mosque have the right to be built?

Bin Laden can only view Bush and Obama with envy. Those two alone are ultimately responsible for leading armies into invasions and occupations resulting in the deaths of more civilians in their wake than bin Laden could hope for if he lived a hundred lifetimes, if that in fact is his aim as you claim. Obama and Bush supporters are free to worship their Gods anywhere in your beautiful country, so what's with the hypocrisy?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It could be, but what do those questions have to do with whether or not a community center or mosque should be built there? Maybe it'll turn out that these particular people aren't the right ones to do it, but that doesn't reflect on whether the project itself is a good idea.

I agree. However, I'm not sure if I should find it hysterical or if I should cry that people who are opposing this project can't even find legitimate things to attack. Rather than finding real anything to support their cause all they do is rely on right-winged fueled lies, hatred and illogical reasons to use, such as the notion that Muslim terrorist are going to celebrate the construction of the mosque because they only pick locations that will signify a victory. You and I know that simply is not true, yet hundreds cheer as Palin, being the air headed bimbo that she is, makes such claims and urges Americans to fight such a project. Funny how the Constitution only applies to those who agree with them, and white, heterosexual, male Christians.
BTW, if anyone is wondering, my signature came from Colbert when he was talking about this mosque. He mentioned that Muslim terrorist celebrate Ramadan. All Muslims celebrate Ramadan. So since they celebrate the same holiday they must all be terrorist. Ducks migrate South for the winter, and so do my grandparents. So my grandparents must be ducks.

 

[Lawrence Mills]

Real christians especially a leader should know that the heart of christ wouldn't deny anyone there own beliefs. Share and most of all live by example what it means to be a christian. Love all nomatter how unlovable.:candle:

 

[Rakhel]

While I can understand why some New Yorkers would not want the Muslim center that close to WTC, this is taking it too far.
Ground Zero imam, wife get deaths threats

The wife of an imam planning an Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero said today that she and her husband have received death threats.
"For the record, my life is under threat," Daisy Khan said during a town hall debate on Islam broadcast on ABC's "This Week" news program.
Khan, who's married to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, said her husband's life also is under threat but, "We do not walk around with bodyguards because we love this country."
Chief police spokesman Paul Browne confirmed that Khan had told authorities about the telephone threats she'd received.

"There were telephone threats made," Browne said, adding the police department was investigating.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/ground_zero_get_deaths_threats_V0RCUUCPg4z3KtHdsRcNIN#ixzz11LbdhgR1