tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
So basically, because they practice Islam, they should have been more sensitive to peoples misunderstandings about those involved in the WTC attack and picked another location, if one was available.
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Mosque Near Ground Zero Clears Key Hurdle
- Thread starter Neo-Logic
- Start date
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
So basically - ANYONE who plans a worship and community center should be sensitive to the community in which this facility will operate. Earlier on this thread (or maybe another one about this mosque) I brought up what we call around here "Six Flags Over Jesus," - a huge, ugly, sprawling church in my area which has grown and built up so many buildings (gym, bowling alley, huge entertainment areas, etc) that they are swallowing up a very established neighborhood - and many of the residents are furious about this. Their property values have plummeted due to the increased traffic and illegal parking that takes place now in the formerly quiet streets surrounding this megachurch. They oppose this church's building plans, and it doesn't mean that they hate Baptists or they are opposed to their right to worship as they please.
They think the buildings are ugly and they don't appreciate church leadership which doesn't respect private ownership or provide enough parking space for their congregation. In other words, they expect the church leadership to respect THEIR feelings and goals for their own property and neighborhood, whether the church legally owns the adjacent property or not.
It would be nice, wouldn't it? A nice gesture of thoughtfulness from church leadership.
By the way, this church also claims to be a community center - with coffee shops, athletic facilities, etc. Open to the public as well.
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Bismillah
Submit
I don't understand the problem. It's more a problem of bigotry and prejudice than offending the sensitivity of others. Should I build a mosque 10 miles from civilization in the deserts of Tucson because I'm sure the community is sensitive of my faith and deplores my act of worship?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh, come on - surely there's some compromise between the deserts of Arizona and 600 feet from Ground Zero. Not that I care. They have every right to build that mosque on land they own, as long as they follow NYC zoning and construction standards.
By the way, if location doesn't make any difference when it comes to practicing our constitutional rights - if constitutional rights trump people's sensitivities every time - then why are the same people who are so concerned about the rights of Muslims to build this mosque, SO upset about Glenn Beck and his fans practicing their freedoms of speech and assembly on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of Rev King's speech?
Beck and his fans are only practicing their constitutional rights. What - they're not being sensitive enough to the feelings of others? Some people think his timing is tacky? So what?
Be consistent, people.
LET FREEDOM RING!
By the way, if location doesn't make any difference when it comes to practicing our constitutional rights - if constitutional rights trump people's sensitivities every time - then why are the same people who are so concerned about the rights of Muslims to build this mosque, SO upset about Glenn Beck and his fans practicing their freedoms of speech and assembly on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of Rev King's speech?
Beck and his fans are only practicing their constitutional rights. What - they're not being sensitive enough to the feelings of others? Some people think his timing is tacky? So what?
Be consistent, people.
LET FREEDOM RING!
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
Nobody is denying Glenn Beck his right to be an idiot if he wanted to. He did it didn't he? People are trying to deny the Muslim's the right for this building. And it's not a mosque. It's the Muslim version of the YMCA where there will be a prayer room available for people (especially Muslim's) who want to use it. And there will be a special place in the building for a 9/11 memorial. There are plenty of similar places around in NYC. This building isn't even a worship place. It's a place to get cooking lessons, swim, play basketball. :thud:What does Glenn Beck have to do with this building? Wow how off topic is that? Start another thread. On edit the main person who is funding this owns 7% of Fox "news" lol.
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Smoke
Done here.
Who tried to stop him?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I didn' t say that anyone tried to stop him - but the caterwauling began a week ago from the likes of Al Sharpton and the liberal media.
Al Sharpton even had a counter demonstration in protest of Beck's rally. Which of course was his right and I'm all for it.
My point is not that anyone tried to stop him - my point is that the moral outrage over his choice of date and location, his references to MLK, and the content of his speech is pretty damn hypocritical when it comes from the same people who vilify and demonize those who dare to even question the motives, location, or sensitivity of the Cordoba House/Park 51 group.
These people are not only criticizing the MINORITY of people who want to prevent the Islamic center/mosque from being built - they are also criticizing anyone who dares to say they think it's tacky, insensitive, or inappropriate, but within the rights of the owners.
You know this is true. It's happened right on this forum in plain sight of all of us.
Smoke
Done here.
I think all churches and mosques are tacky, insensitive and appropriate. I've made it quite clear that I dislike Islam and that I'd prefer that there not be any new mosques anywhere. And yet nobody's attacked me for it. Why do you think that is?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Because you're obviously a flaming liberal, posting on a forum that leans to the left.
It's OK, Smoke - I like you just as you are.
Someone put on that Paul Simon song and everybody sing along!
Requia
Active Member
Minority?
93% of those who say its insulting also oppose the plans in general.
New York City (NYC) Poll * July 1, 2010 * New York City Voters Oppose Mo - Quinnipiac University Hamden, Connecticut
93% of those who say its insulting also oppose the plans in general.
New York City (NYC) Poll * July 1, 2010 * New York City Voters Oppose Mo - Quinnipiac University Hamden, Connecticut
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I was referring to the national polls, which have the numbers at approximately 67% believing that it is their constitutional right to build it, and about 23% who think it should be disallowed if voters vote against it (not sure what the remainder think - I can't remember). Anyway, the majority of Americans support their right to build the mosque there, even though about 63% of Americans personally believe the location is not tasteful.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Actually, here's the latest poll from CBS:
Poll: Most Say "Ground Zero Mosque" Is Inappropriate - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
My earlier figures (remembered from last week) were pretty accurate. 67% believe it is their right to build the mosque. 71% believe it's inappropriate.
Poll: Most Say "Ground Zero Mosque" Is Inappropriate - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
My earlier figures (remembered from last week) were pretty accurate. 67% believe it is their right to build the mosque. 71% believe it's inappropriate.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Here's what the poll you posted says:
A mosque near Ground Zero would "foster understanding and teach people that not all Muslims are terrorists," 42 percent of New York City voters say. Of this group, 68 percent support the mosque.
Another 42 percent of voters say the mosque "is an insult to the memory and families of 9/11 victims." Of this group, 93 percent oppose the mosque.
Just to clarify. So yes - a minority of New Yorkers and Americans oppose the building of the Islamic center/mosque two blocks from Ground Zero.
After being told for days the truth, that it is more a community center than a mosque, is there some particular reason you are still calling it a mosque? Just curious how these things work.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
In the two posts above, I am simply either quoting a poll word for word, or using the word a poll used when it was conducted and published.
If you will look thru my posts you will see that I usually refer to the building as a community center/mosque which I feel is accurate since it is currently being used as a mosque and will continue to offer a mosque on site for Muslim worshippers when the community center is built.
Requia
Active Member
Ah, I thought you were saying that a minority of those who think its insulting/upsetting oppose it.
Smoke
Done here.
Because you're obviously a flaming liberal, posting on a forum that leans to the left.
That's never exempted me from criticism before. I think it's because I've also made it clear that I don't think it's any of my business.
Bismillah
Submit
No, your sensitivity argument applies to both. It just sounds retarded when put in perspective. The proposed site isn't even on ground zero, that's just a phrase coined by the republicans to give the connotation of minarets rising from base of the WTC itself. Will your sensitivity soon extend over a ten mile radius? The city itself?
No one is banning him from speaking are they? So what if they protest they're not trying to shut down his speech and cart him off to jail. You don't think every time anything associated with Islam is constructed someone doesn't protest?