BSM1
What? Me worry?
Aha! So now we are back to persecuting the Christians, lol.
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Most persecuted religion in the world is.....
- Thread starter jeager106
- Start date
Aha! So now we are back to persecuting the Christians, lol.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
I am sorry when I laugh but holy crap that is hilarious.
A few points to consider.
- Should we expect religions that have been strongly persecuted to have survived at all? If so, why? Are we using some sort of concept of "failed persecution"? If we are, shouldn't religions that suffered succesful persecution trump the ones that survived it?
- How exactly should we account for numbers of adherents? Some religions have very small numbers and that alone is often enough for them to suffer a lot of inconveniences, even before their actual reputation and treatment is taken into account.
- Even deciding what constitutes a religion to begin with may arguably constitute severe persecution. Or, for that matter, what constitutes a separate religion or a "true" or representative branch of a religion.
- Some religions are almost universally despised and/or have a long story of internal division and even armed struggle. How can we decide whether accusing others of being "adherents in name only" or something similar constitutes internal persecution? What about actually forbidding their practices? Taking arms against them?
Aum Shinrikyo is rightfully considered a criminal cult. Does it count as a persecuted religion? If so, how does it compare to others in whatever scale we want to use?
What about Cargo Cults? Trinitarianism? Does the insistence of many that LDS and JW are not Christians constitute persecution? Is a self-proclaimed Messiah persecuted if people don't take him seriously? Is it persecution to deny legal acceptance of poligamy for religions that otherwise would accept them? Is it persecution to decide that one would never vote for a political candidate of a certain religion? To joke about it? To decide that one has no time for learning more about it?
There are a lot of very arbitrary lines there.
- Should we expect religions that have been strongly persecuted to have survived at all? If so, why? Are we using some sort of concept of "failed persecution"? If we are, shouldn't religions that suffered succesful persecution trump the ones that survived it?
- How exactly should we account for numbers of adherents? Some religions have very small numbers and that alone is often enough for them to suffer a lot of inconveniences, even before their actual reputation and treatment is taken into account.
- Even deciding what constitutes a religion to begin with may arguably constitute severe persecution. Or, for that matter, what constitutes a separate religion or a "true" or representative branch of a religion.
- Some religions are almost universally despised and/or have a long story of internal division and even armed struggle. How can we decide whether accusing others of being "adherents in name only" or something similar constitutes internal persecution? What about actually forbidding their practices? Taking arms against them?
Aum Shinrikyo is rightfully considered a criminal cult. Does it count as a persecuted religion? If so, how does it compare to others in whatever scale we want to use?
What about Cargo Cults? Trinitarianism? Does the insistence of many that LDS and JW are not Christians constitute persecution? Is a self-proclaimed Messiah persecuted if people don't take him seriously? Is it persecution to deny legal acceptance of poligamy for religions that otherwise would accept them? Is it persecution to decide that one would never vote for a political candidate of a certain religion? To joke about it? To decide that one has no time for learning more about it?
There are a lot of very arbitrary lines there.
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I say Muslims are the most persecuted.
This is often not so noticed because it's other Muslims doing it to them.
This is often not so noticed because it's other Muslims doing it to them.
For those who might be interested, PEW research has a set of metrics that they use to assess this for the major world religions:
http://www.pewforum.org/category/publications/restrictions-on-religion/
http://www.pewforum.org/category/publications/restrictions-on-religion/
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I had to laugh too if I remembered whether Isrealites were Hebrews and whether Hebrews are connected to Jews.
Correct me rather than laugh.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
From my perspective, I never, not once, ever-or-at-all, faced any sort of persecution as a Christian, in any-way-shape-or-form. But when I became a neo-Pagan, I began to taste and see it, and now as an Agnostic it's the worst I've known. Not having any gods...people flip out over that in a way they don't with neo-Pagans because "at least" they have a god.
morphesium
Active Member
I think it is people who are against religion (atheists) who have been persecuted the most. No mercy on them for the truth they spoke.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
If we had killed millions of people back in the days the entire Middle East would've been mostly empty.
It also would've been a wonder in itself because it means we would've finished off several Empires along the way.
Meanwhile in reality nothing like that happened.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Well, given its in the Bible and where Im from a lot of people take it literally, Id assume thats true. That god told the Isrealites to murder thousands so that god can give them their promise lands...and so on.
Whether it is true from a historical perspective, Id probably side with the people who live there. From a biblical perspective, since many take the bible true Id assume its events would fall likewise no matter how it makes no sense to me.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
So you are saying people died during times of war before Classical Antiquity.
No way!
You do realise that what happened in that tiny stretch of land is pretty much a hiccup when you compare it to what the various Empires of the time did, right?
Sees
Dragonslayer
For me when I think persecution, I think of violence, killing, restrictive legislation, etc. Looking at responses has me not so sure I'm on the same page with everybody else.
In first world Christian-majority countries there can be/is employment opportunities effected by not being Christian, other than that it seems a stretch.
Does anybody see "they don't like us/are not as friendly to us" as persecution?
In first world Christian-majority countries there can be/is employment opportunities effected by not being Christian, other than that it seems a stretch.
Does anybody see "they don't like us/are not as friendly to us" as persecution?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Hold on a sec.
In your previous post it was:
now all of a sudden it's "thousands"? Which is it?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Im going by the bible. The only way I know about the outside world is news and books. No personal experience. No historical knowledge.
Spark notes: give me a break.
Do Jews believe god ordered the Isrealites to take lives to have a land for them?
Its not a philisophical question.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Really?
God told isrealites to kill a lot of people.
Numbers arent my point.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
1 Chronicles 21
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people
Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value
Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead
2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!
Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.
Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."
In total God orders the death of 371,186 people
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people
Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value
Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead
2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!
Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.
Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."
In total God orders the death of 371,186 people