Most trustworthy ?

[John1.12]

Maybe it has grown on me that even i believe in Allah and Muhammad, there can be other options for other people, so i try to respect everyone who have a belief and faith in a God or a Buddha (or other deities)
And if someone does not believe I have to be respectful toward them too.

Many dont realise that Jesus was more direct and honest .

John 8
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Of course. This topic is about trustworthiness of course . We are all free to put forth the attributes , character, conduct of the people we have decided to place our trust in ,to give the reasons for the hope and trust we have placed in the claims of Muhammed or Jesus .After all this isn't a trivial matter . This is about eternal life . In the case of Christians and Muslims this would be Muhammed for Muslims and Jesus for Christians. I believe its a relevant topic to discuss the reasons why we should trust Muhammad over Jesus and vica versa . We have two figures before us . Of course Islam shares there faith as do Christians so its honest to say we do stand on our truth claims and believe one to be true and the other false. its logically unavoidable. So its completely acceptable to compare the life of Muhammed ( IMO ) with the life of Jesus and to discuss who was the most trustworthy. Granting both sides be true for arguments sake .

I am sure Christians can find truth through Jesus and Christianity, just as i believe Muslims can find truth through Allah and Muhammad.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Many dont realise that Jesus was more direct and honest .

John 8
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

I have no doubt that both Jesus and Muhammad was honest in their teaching

 

[John1.12]

I have no doubt that both Jesus and Muhammad was honest in their teaching

Yes they both believed what they said was true . So as you say you follow Muhammed. Muhammed claimed Christians were wrong and in error on the very essential fundementals of Christianity. He was honest to say we were wrong and in error . He was honest to say Christians were commiting blasphemy against God by attributing ' partners with God and claiming God had a Son. I speak to Muslism all the time and they tell me its wrong to say Jesus is God ,that I'm wrong about Jesus and that the truth is only in Islam . I respect that. I know where I stand and its ok . I agree to disagree and we have a good discussion. They argue that the bible is corrupted, that Jesus did not die on the cross and such . They say im wrong and in error on all the fundementals of Christianity and its ok ,no hard feelings. But we talk about the character of Muhammed and the character of Jesus and this is a sticking point . its where the rubber meets the road ..When we compare the life of Jesus and the life of Muhammed most Muslims I speak to disagree of course . Not on the claims of christianity but they disagree because they say the source about Jesus is corrupted . I think most people would logically conclude that Jesus is more trustworthy than Muhammed if both were granted to be true and valid claims. Muslims don't accept the source to be true so they don't evaluate the claims equally .So of course they trust Muhammad's claims instead .
This is the point of the discussion and as expected I keep seeing people are rejecting the claims about Jesus, rejecting the source ( the bible) as trustworthy rather than accepting the claims for arguments sake ,evaluating said claims and arriving at a decision ,based on that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes they both believed what they said was true . So as you say you follow Muhammed. Muhammed claimed Christians were wrong and in error on the very essential fundementals of Christianity. He was honest to say we were wrong and in error . He was honest to say Christians were commiting blasphemy against God by attributing ' partners with God and claiming God had a Son. I speak to Muslism all the time and they tell me its wrong to say Jesus is God ,that I'm wrong about Jesus and that the truth is only in Islam . I respect that. I know where I stand and its ok . I agree to disagree and we have a good discussion. They argue that the bible is corrupted, that Jesus did not die on the cross and such . They say im wrong and in error on all the fundementals of Christianity and its ok ,no hard feelings. But we talk about the character of Muhammed and the character of Jesus and this is a sticking point . its where the rubber meets the road ..When we compare the life of Jesus and the life of Muhammed most Muslims I speak to disagree of course . Not on the claims of christianity but they disagree because they say the source about Jesus is corrupted . I think most people would logically conclude that Jesus is more trustworthy than Muhammed if both were granted to be true and valid claims. Muslims don't accept the source to be true so they don't evaluate the claims equally .So of course they trust Muhammad's claims instead .

Have you seen any comment from me indicating i would disrespect Jesus as am amazing spiritual teacher?

I can only speak for my own understanding of the teaching in Islam and Sufism. And i find it important to not disrespect any spiritual teacher, and if Jesus claimed to be Gods son, or if that is something added later, i have no valid info about it. So why would i say he lied?
Muhammad would be on a very high level of wisdom that my own understanding would not be able to speak for what Muhammad knew or did not knew. But i believe Muhammad gave a true teaching how a human being can be re-united with Allah.

 

[John1.12]

Have you seen any comment from me indicating i would disrespect Jesus as am amazing spiritual teacher?

I can only speak for my own understanding of the teaching in Islam and Sufism. And i find it important to not disrespect any spiritual teacher, and if Jesus claimed to be Gods son, or if that is something added later, i have no valid info about it. So why would i say he lied?
Muhammad would be on a very high level of wisdom that my own understanding would not be able to speak for what Muhammad knew or did not knew. But i believe Muhammad gave a true teaching how a human being can be re-united with Allah.

//Have you seen any comment from me indicating i would disrespect Jesus as am amazing spiritual teacher?// Why did you just say this ? I never even alluded to this ? Just curious ?

 

[John1.12]

Have you seen any comment from me indicating i would disrespect Jesus as am amazing spiritual teacher?

I can only speak for my own understanding of the teaching in Islam and Sufism. And i find it important to not disrespect any spiritual teacher, and if Jesus claimed to be Gods son, or if that is something added later, i have no valid info about it. So why would i say he lied?
Muhammad would be on a very high level of wisdom that my own understanding would not be able to speak for what Muhammad knew or did not knew. But i believe Muhammad gave a true teaching how a human being can be re-united with Allah.

I never said the Muslims I speak to ' disrespect' me , Jesus or Christianity . We have good discussions .

 

[Spirit of Light]

//Have you seen any comment from me indicating i would disrespect Jesus as am amazing spiritual teacher?// Why did you just say this ? I never even alluded to this ? Just curious ?

My comment was because of what you said here. As a muslim my self i do not see it the way you describe it here.

Muhammed claimed Christians were wrong and in error on the very essential fundementals of Christianity. He was honest to say we were wrong and in error . He was honest to say Christians were commiting blasphemy against God by attributing ' partners with God and claiming God had a Son. I speak to Muslism all the time and they tell me its wrong to say Jesus is God ,that I'm wrong about Jesus and that the truth is only in Islam . I respect that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I never said the Muslims I speak to ' disrespect' me , Jesus or Christianity . We have good discussions .

If i missunderstood you that is on me, I am sorry for my own lack of understanding in what you meant,

 

[John1.12]

If i missunderstood you that is on me, I am sorry for my own lack of understanding in what you meant,

I don't think its disrespectful to say someone is wrong . Jesus ( the bible says in John 8) Surprises a lot of people when he said to those hearers.

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Thats pretty direct ,exclusive and bold.

 

[Bird123]

I believe that Jesus Is the most trustworthy person ever . Like seriously 'ever '. We look across the landscape of historical figures, religious leaders , prophets , gurus , life coaches , kings , queens ,politicians , and anyone you would care to mention , and I make the claim that only one person stands way above the rest.
Now I'm referring to the biblical Jesus. The one that Christianity proclaims .
So for arguments sake, if we assume that all the claims of the religions are equally viable and their leaders / prophets/ figure heads existed and there sources ,reliable. If we grant all that and we simply base our judgments on ' trustworthiness. This would be on Character, reliability, promises , the extent in which they showed sacrificial love love , charity, giving , faithfulness, selflessness, and what they offered to the world on such things as , hope , joy ,peace , eternal life , ect .
So to recap . Which historical figure , religious or otherwise is / was the most trustworthy . The one if true would be the most trustworthy for such matters as described above ?

How can you say Jesus is the most trustworthy when you have never really met Jesus??

If I were to take an axe murderer, then have lots of people write wonderful things about him, at some point someone in the world will think the axe murderer is trustworthy.

In reality, those who wrote about Jesus have convinced you to Believe Jesus is trustworthy.

Yes, there is a Big difference between Beliefs and what Actually Exists.

Since I am Big on what actually exists, I deem everyone I meet as very Trustworthy until they prove me wrong. In doing this, I'm giving everyone the great opportunity to be trustworthy. I am not one to rely on the Beliefs of others. I will Discover the Real Truth for myself in time. In this, I will not be Believing. I will be Knowing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[SalixIncendium]

Jesus does offer all those things in the bible.

I'm aware. You should be aware that I take practically no credence in the Bible.

 

[John1.12]

How can you say Jesus is the most trustworthy when you have never really met Jesus??

If I were to take an axe murderer, then have lots of people write wonderful things about him, at some point someone in the world will think the axe murderer is trustworthy.

In reality, those who wrote about Jesus have convinced you to Believe Jesus is trustworthy.

Yes, there is a Big difference between Beliefs and what Actually Exists.

Since I am Big on what actually exists, I deem everyone I meet as very Trustworthy until they prove me wrong. In doing this, I'm giving everyone the great opportunity to be trustworthy. I am not one to rely on the Beliefs of others. I will Discover the Real Truth for myself in time. In this, I will not be Believing. I will be Knowing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I think its safe to assume no one has met Muhammed , Joseph Smith , ect ,today ( and such ) either. As an aside though We do claim to have 'encountered ' Jesus in some sense through the giving of the Holy Spirit and receiving Jesus. But this another topic .Also all religions that have a spokesperson/ prophet died and stayed dead .

 

[John1.12]

I'm aware. You should be aware that I take practically no credence in the Bible.

Then this probably isn't the discussion for you ?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Then this probably isn't the discussion for you ?

Thanks for your concern, but I’ll decide what discussions are for me.

 

[John1.12]

How can you say Jesus is the most trustworthy when you have never really met Jesus??

If I were to take an axe murderer, then have lots of people write wonderful things about him, at some point someone in the world will think the axe murderer is trustworthy.

In reality, those who wrote about Jesus have convinced you to Believe Jesus is trustworthy.

Yes, there is a Big difference between Beliefs and what Actually Exists.

Since I am Big on what actually exists, I deem everyone I meet as very Trustworthy until they prove me wrong. In doing this, I'm giving everyone the great opportunity to be trustworthy. I am not one to rely on the Beliefs of others. I will Discover the Real Truth for myself in time. In this, I will not be Believing. I will be Knowing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

This discussion is based on granting all claims by religions as true ,for arguments sake and then asking the question , which person is the most trustworthy . If we say all of them cannot be true logically as they contradict, then one must be true and the rest not trustworthy ,even though they themselves may have been convinced by what they were proclaiming . If we use just two examples. Muhammad and Jesus. They both claim things to be true about God and eternal life . They both contradict each other..Only one can be true ( or both false ) So we may look at their lives , their character, conduct and from that ask who is the most trustworthy . Of course if you just dismiss these people off hand then of course maybe this isn't the discussion for you ? But these aren't trivial claims. We have a high portion of the population who are Muslim.

 

[John1.12]

Thanks for your concern, but I’ll decide what discussions are for me.

I said ' probably ' and included a ' ? ' .

 

[SalixIncendium]

I said ' probably ' and included a ' ? ' .

Yes. I saw this. And I replied to your query.

 

[Vinayaka]

Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen. He was #1.

Nope. That guy kicked down my sand castle when I was 4. My sister bawled for 3 hours.

 

[The Hammer]

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Thats pretty direct ,exclusive and bold.

Whether or not your Scripture says this, or you believe it. You posting it as being attributable to someone outside your faith is rude.