Mother Teresa wars

[Deathbydefault]

As for me, I no more trust the person who hates than the one who loves. Neither is in the best position to rationally consider and report.

I don't really care to the personality of the person making an argument, maybe as far as for entertainments sake.
What i care about is whether or not their argument is rational, or if they are correct.

If a professional is correcting someone on how their job is performed, does it matter if they cuss or call that person a moron?
It doesn't make them any less right, hearing the f word takes nothing away from them being correct.

If the most intelligent person you know pulled out the most rational argument you've ever heard, does it matter if they were rude to you the whole time?
Does their treatment of you make their argument any less rational? If so, how?

 

[Mister Emu]

I don't really care to the personality of the person making an argument

I didn't say anything about personality. I addressed prejudice. I don't go to the KKK to get information about black people, I don't listen to scientologist press releases to learn about L. Ron Hubbard, and if I want a rational understanding of Mother Teresa, I don't go to Hitchens or the RCC.

Bias predisposes people to be irrational, to obfuscate factors that disagree with their bias and so on.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Bias predisposes people to be irrational, to obfuscate factors that disagree with their bias and so on.

Disagreed.
Bias isn't the issue, it's the person with the bias.

To say, the sword isn't the issue, but rather the wielder.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Why are there synagogues when people are starving? She founded a religious order, and built some religious buildings to support that order.

Why are we to hold people, who go out into the world and help people, give them food and water and shelter and some medical aid that they weren't going to get otherwise, to some impossible standard that we would never hold ourselves to. We don't consider our neighbors and think "it is hard to see anything good at all" because they don't live in a hovel on bare nutritional necessity so as to donate every cent and second possible to the sick and starving. Once someone actually does that and has success, we are supposed to demand they be perfect in every way or into the trash they go. It is absurd.

I'm not demanding perfection. I'm demanding a shred of human decency. She used the image of suffering and the pretense of caring to raise funds to build 500 convents instead of providing sterile needles and decent painkillers. Her flagship hospice was as run down and miserable when she died as it was when it was started. She wasn't a loving or caring figure who occasionally benefited from her donations by way of first class travel and first class medical care for herself. She was a fraud, standing on the backs of those poor and sick individuals dying in her buildings to raise money, stolen from poor people, for religious buildings.

She was a marketing tool for the church. Not a saint.

 

[Poisonshady313]

We don't consider our neighbors and think "it is hard to see anything good at all" because they don't live in a hovel on bare nutritional necessity so as to donate every cent and second possible to the sick and starving. Once someone actually does that and has success, we are supposed to demand they be perfect in every way or into the trash they go. It is absurd.

If my neighbor received a $50,000 dollar donation given for the purpose of providing his poor, sick, starving family with decent food, clothes, education and medicine... and instead spent the money on a brand new BMW, I would find it hard to see anything good at all in him. This is the sort of thing Mother Theresa would do... and you're praising her for it.

 

[Mister Emu]

This is the sort of thing Mother Theresa would do...

Then show me where, and no building convents with money donated to her religious order of nuns isn't the same thing.

I don't think there is too much more to be gained here. Raging bias doesn't have an effect on cognitive processing; giving medicine to lepers, feeding the hungry, schooling the disadvantaged, clearly is nothing good at all.

 

[metis]

Someone said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" , so I do believe it's better to let Mother Theresa rest in peace and then take a careful look at what we may stand for and subsequently do.

 

[First Baseman]

I have a whole new idea.

Why doesn't everyone forget about Mother Theresa and try to make the world a better place, feed the poor, find jobs for the jobless, care for the fatherless and such?

Once anyone on here has done this I will hear you and honor your opinion.

Until then I would just as soon not hear it.

Thank you.

 

[Wirey]

I have a whole new idea.

Why doesn't everyone forget about Mother Theresa and try to make the world a better place, feed the poor, find jobs for the jobless, care for the fatherless and such?

Once anyone on here has done this I will hear you and honor your opinion.

Until then I would just as soon not hear it.

Thank you.

But I've never claimed to work on behalf of God, so I'm following a different standard. If I faint at the sight of blood, am I as much of a problem as a surgeon who does?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Then show me where, and no building convents with money donated to her religious order of nuns isn't the same thing.

Absolutely it is the same thing. 500 convents don't alleviate pain or provide adequate medical care. The Vatican has more than enough wealth to put up a thousand convents anywhere it sees fit without having an old Albanian nun raise funds from dictators and criminals.

I don't think there is too much more to be gained here. Raging bias doesn't have an effect on cognitive processing; giving medicine to lepers, feeding the hungry, schooling the disadvantaged, clearly is nothing good at all.

It's one thing to actually do those things. It's another to pretend to do those things in order to build religious buildings.

Having a reputation for giving medicine to lepers while letting curable people die and providing woefully inadequate palliative treatment with millions of dollars at her disposal would have been bad enough.... but to then take advantage of first world medicine for herself... these are the acts of a sadist, a fraud, and a hypocrite. And for her to accept money that was stolen from poor and starving people, and not even use it to help other poor and starving people... if she had done nothing at all, the world would have been a better place.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Chris Hitchins can be hateful, but he also has to be non-biased.

Do you think that Chris is non-biased?

He doesn't have to be non-biased, it's just best that his bias is obvious.
What I care about is him being correct, his personal feelings are just something I do or don't relate to.
If he were to play to his bias, to purposefully report false information about those he is against, only then would he lose credibility, to me.

To answer your question, he probably is, but I don't care.

 

[Mister Emu]

Why doesn't everyone forget about Mother Theresa and try to make the world a better place, feed the poor, find jobs for the jobless, care for the fatherless and such?

Much easier to attack someone who helped for not doing it right than to go out and do.

Absolutely it is the same thing

Of course, those dastardly nuns building nunneries.

It's another to pretend to do those things in order to build religious buildings.

Oh yeah, those pretend clinics, those pretend schools, that pretend food.

Last year the international Red Cross spent over 100 millions dollars on salaries and administrative buildings/back-end. I can't wait to see your crusade against the evil Red Cross charity the world would be better off without.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Of course, those dastardly nuns building nunneries.

If she built half as many nunneries and used the money she collected to provide adequate care in the hospices she had already set up, I wouldn't be bothered by her building religious buildings.

Last year the international Red Cross spent over 100 millions dollars on salaries and administrative buildings/back-end. I can't wait to see your crusade against the evil Red Cross charity the world would be better off without.

The Red Cross actually does the work it is credited with doing. I don't say they shouldn't earn salaries or build administrative buildings.

My problem would be if they poured a great deal of funding into administrative buildings without providing adequate care to the people they claim to care for.

If you have hundreds of millions of dollars at your disposal, and you can't implement basic standards of hygiene or provide decent palliative care in your homes for the dying, but you can build buildings where perfectly healthy nuns can go and be nuns, you're doing it wrong.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Much easier to attack someone who helped for not doing it right than to go out and do.

That implies she actually did something. She didn't. The only thing she did was helped people to die somewhere that wasn't the gutter. Whoopedee-****ing-doo.

Of course, those dastardly nuns building nunneries.

I realise how ridiculous it is for someone claiming to heal the sick and the injured, and who has a reputation for doing such to actually use the exorbitant wealth at her disposal to build something that's actually useful instead of a nunnery.