Muhammad a pedophile? how?

[Rival]

Hello Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha - WikiIslam

Aisha's Age of Consummation - WikiIslam

Islamic scholar

 

[DawudTalut]

65:1
"O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting-period and count the waiting period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden."

Greetings, Dawud. I'd like to know if the above quote is a verse in the Quran that allows men to marry and then have sex with little girls who haven't even yet reached puberty?

Peace.
Please read note 4271 of verse # 5 (in your reference it is # 4)

 

[Sees]

The most trusted hadith give the youngest ages, they mention her with dolls, they mention wives/companions questioning the marriage, etc. The "she was older" is not likely true if you look over all that is there. It is very likely run-around from people who realized it may be seen as unfavorable/detestable by others for generations to come.

I highly doubt it is a major deciding factor for the majority of non-Muslims, regardless.

 

[Salvador]

Thanks for sharing your wisdom about Islam, Dawud. I think that I've now correctly understood the verse does then refer to women who have irregular menstruation disorders rather than girls who haven't yet reached puberty. Sorry, if I've misinterpreted a verse from the Holy Quran.

 

[Kirran]

That is merely a speculative argument for why they had a reason to be dishonest (a pretty stupid reason, I might add). It doesn't mean that they aren't reputable ... it merely means that there is reason to think that they MIGHT not be reputable.

Yes, it is. But it brings greater questionability to such sources, IMO.

I'm sure you can come up with a better critique of this point than 'it's stupid'.

Allah is?! I thought Allah could do anything, including letting anyone he wants into heaven.

No. S of the O.

Peace be on you....
1- I humbly agree upto above words only.....
2- Hazrat Fatima was daughter of Hazrat Khadijah [May Allah be pleased with all of them]

Wow, what an elementary mistake. I'm sorry, I don't know why I had that in my head.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, it is. But it brings greater questionability to such sources, IMO.

I'm sure you can come up with a better critique of this point than 'it's stupid'.



No. S of the O.



Wow, what an elementary mistake. I'm sorry, I don't know why I had that in my head.

Sorry about the confusion, but I wasn't speaking towards your point as being "stupid." I was referring to the Islamic tenant that men must marry virgins, like that matters for some reason.

 

[leibowde84]

Hello Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha - WikiIslam

Aisha's Age of Consummation - WikiIslam

Islamic scholar

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks it permissable to have sex with a 9 year old girl is disturbingly immoral.

 

[Rival]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks it permissable to have sex with a 9 year old girl is disturbingly immoral.

Yes, but the point is he accepted her age and is a Muslim Sheikh.

 

[Kirran]

Sorry about the confusion, but I wasn't speaking towards your point as being "stupid." I was referring to the Islamic tenant that men must marry virgins, like that matters for some reason.

True enough Winston. But many a faith is against sex before marriage, which is fine, there's no need to have sex before marriage. It's just the vilification, the '****-shaming', which ain't so great.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I'm curious, Servant_of_the_One, do you understand how this makes the whole discussion far, far worse? It's almost as if Muslims understand perfectly well that this is a hot button topic and so to dispel any and all comments about his "marriage" to a child, one faces eternal doom for daring to comment. It also suggests that your god is good with child abuse in special circumstances. With reality as unseemly as that, no wonder there is the divine threat. It's sort of weird for a "religion of peace" to make these kinds of claims.

Thats your beliefs.
Our belief is the marriage was to strengthen ties. It was common practise, to marry someone to strengthen the ties. If kuffar wants to interpret it differently, its their problem. But i wont sit down or talk to people who insult the prophet pbuh. So i leave this thread.

 

[Kirran]

Thats your beliefs.
Our belief is the marriage was to strengthen ties. It was common practise, to marry someone to strengthen the ties. If kuffar wants to interpret it differently, its their problem. But i wont sit down or talk to people who insult the prophet pbuh. So i leave this thread.

This view does seem to dehumanise women quite strongly.

I have nothing against Allah's Apostle, myself, and mean no insult. But in interfaith dialogue, there will be questioning of such aspects of Islam, to be expected.

 

[Sees]

Sorry about the confusion, but I wasn't speaking towards your point as being "stupid." I was referring to the Islamic tenant that men must marry virgins, like that matters for some reason.

Similar to some modern day guys who must get a new car rather than one from the used lot, simply to save face in front of peers. The prize possession aspect is intact. Several of the laws/regs were/are about making sure she stayed your pure prize possession by strict means.

 

[YmirGF]

Thats your beliefs.

My so-called "beliefs" have very little to do with my ability to discern meaning from the written word. The downside to the "Thats your beliefs" comment is it applies to you as well.

Our belief is the marriage was to strengthen ties. It was common practise, to marry someone to strengthen the ties. If kuffar wants to interpret it differently, its their problem. But i wont sit down or talk to people who insult the prophet pbuh. So i leave this thread.

There is some truth to this, but wasn't Abu Bakr the 2nd person to adopt Islam? Given that he was it is a bit silly to worry about making the bond stronger. Abu Bakr was an influential man who caused other early followers to come to Islam because of his position in their society. Unless, of course, this was meant to cement the bond so that Abu Bakr would never lose his influence over his self-anointed prophet. Likewise, I recall that Muhammad was allegedly smitten with affection for the child on their first meeting and that instant love had little or nothing to do with strengthening bonds with Abu Bakr.

@Servant_of_the_One

 

[Smart_Guy]

Did boys ever marry as young as 12 to older women? And did they "consummate" their marriages that young too to older women?

Why or why not?

That's a very good and reasonable question, ma'am. I'm not familiar with other religions/cultures, so I'll talk about my knowledge of Islam in this regard.

Men in Islam cannot get married in such an early age. Men in Islam are obligated to be both physically and financially capable (please note that physical maturity and physical capability are two different things), enough to take care of and provide for a family. Without those, getting married would inflect negative results to a family that has just started. Maybe now there are solutions that can take care of that, or conditions that do not require the two, but in the harsh and lawless past it was definitely necessary as a norm to be both physically and financially capable for men taking care of a family. It is/was impossible for a man as young as 12 years old to have both. Since our case here is ~1400 years old, I believe we cannot then consider the solutions and condition of the modern days here. I'm 32 and still not married basically because of the financial part. With our traditional way of marriage here, I fear that I would bring misfortune to my wife.

Just to be clear, I'm against child girls marriage. I cannot talk about the past, and I believe those who do actually don't know what they are talking about, but now it is definitely wrong in normal cases.

Note to all:
I noticed some hostility and passive aggressive. Please try to keep the thread reasonable and appropriately discussed.

 

[Salvador]

The definition of puberty is as follows:
"The period during which adolescents reach sexual maturity and become capable of reproduction." Google
The definition of puberty doesn't state any minimum age when a person can attain puberty. I think Aisha's actual sexual maturity , instead of her age, when she and Muhammad had consummated their marriage is the relevant factor that determines if Muhammad had any pedophilia. Where there is a high rate of mortality, low life expectancy, and under-population, it's understandable why a man would choose a young lady ( a female who has just reached sexual maturity ) for reproducing offspring. Regardless of Aisha's age, I believe she was just sexually mature enough for reproduction when she and Mohammad had consummated their marriage. I doubt there is any evidence that Mohammad had sex with Aisha before she was a sexually mature young lady.

 

[McBell]

Peace and wisdom to all.
Why it is being ignored the there are other mentions present about the age of (Hazrat) Aisha..... Six year thing is not a mark engraved on a stone, it is not mentioned in Quran.

"" .....several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts. Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28. This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six. - See more at: Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage | Muhammad Fact Check

wwwDOTmuhammadfactcheckDOTorg/?muhammad=prophet-muhammad-sa-married-ayesha-ra-when-she-was-underage#sthash.y9ZiSsaK.1EzZgLsE.dpuf

Discussions can be done, but there has to be a real base for that.

Various people of various religions, if keep discussing or saying things of this nature [which has no practical value] is not going to help for world peace. The only beneficiary would be those who like to people keep fighting, and their businesses [of wars, arms, etc....] thrive.

Another irrelevant post.

At least you are consistent.

 

[Unification]

For Christians it's the Christ conscious, for Muslims it is the Muhammed conscious, for Buddhists it's the Buddah conscious. . And so on.

Either way, it's the same thing and same God, and when that conscious is achieved... One sees the spirit of the scriptures within themselves and that nothing is literal, husbands and wives, man and woman mean nothing literal as the natural and lower man sees and perceives such. Muhammed didn't marry any literal woman, he joined opposites within his brain. Not expecting many to understand.

Peace and blessings to all.

 

[Kirran]

Another irrelevant post.

At least you are consistent.

I think it's very relevant to the discussion on whether Muhammad was a pedophile to talk about the age of the woman he had sex with. What could be more relevant than that?

 

[Salvador]

I think it's very relevant to the discussion on whether Muhammad was a pedophile to talk about the age of the woman he had sex with. What could be more relevant than that?

Aisha's sexual maturity would be relevant, because she could have reached puberty at age 9. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. If Aisha was sexually mature enough to reproduce instead of prepubescent at age 9, then Muhammad by definition would not have been a pedophile; even if he had sex with a 9-year-old young lady who had passed her age of puberty.

 

[Sees]

Aisha's sexual maturity would be relevant, because she could have reached puberty at age 9. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. If Aisha was sexually mature enough to reproduce instead of prepubescent at age 9, then Muhammad by definition would not have been a pedophile; even if he had sex with a 9-year-old young lady who had passed her age of puberty.

Keep in mind you are talking about the equivalent of a 3rd grader who probably doesn't have her adult teeth grown in. Lady or woman shouldn't be mentioned at all.